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  #141  
Old 11-19-2008, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Rankenstein View Post
The problem is, there isn't a scrap of evidence to show he was born anywhere other than Hawaii. All this is, is political desperation.
Of course it is! What these doubters are doing is complete nonsense. A look at the birth certificate shows that it can be used as 'prima facie' evidence in a court of law. That means that it can legally be used as an accurate representation of the facts of Obama's birth...and proven to be true.

What court would be foolish enough to base a 'trial' on disproving a document certified as 'prima facie' evidence? There is some creative wishful thinking going on here.

Those who think they have a case here let's see some evidence. Suspicion is not good enough....
 
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  #142  
Old 11-20-2008, 01:54 AM
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[thumbnail below]
Oh wow, how did you get this? That's hilarious!

OK, ding ding ding -stop the fight (throw in the towel).

Zap WINS!

T.K.O.
 
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  #143  
Old 11-20-2008, 06:17 AM
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Oh wow, how did you get this?
It's all over the internet. Has been for months now. That's the document that's being disputed by some.

I've become a little more intrigued with the whole thing since Alan Keyes filed a lawsuit. I really don't think he'd go out on a limb like that unless he truly felt he was right. If this clown is found ineligible to serve wouldn't that be the icing on this whole ridiculous cake?

Last edited by South; 11-20-2008 at 06:33 AM.
 
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  #144  
Old 11-20-2008, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by South View Post
It's all over the internet. Has been for months now. That's the document that's being disputed by some.

I've become a little more intrigued with the whole thing since Alan Keyes filed a lawsuit. I really don't think he'd go out on a limb like that unless he truly felt he was right. If this clown is found ineligible to serve wouldn't that be the icing on this whole ridiculous cake?
Agreed, but what seems to be more likely?

1. Alan Keyes did go out on a limb with nothing to lose because he is fuelled by feelings against Obama.

OR

2. Obama went out on a limb with everything to lose because he didn't think anyone would find out he was born elsewhere.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
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  #145  
Old 11-20-2008, 07:20 AM
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Hang on, is that a real American birth certificate? Do you mothers and fathers have to state their race on their child's birth certificate?
 
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  #146  
Old 11-20-2008, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
1. Alan Keyes did go out on a limb with nothing to lose because he is fuelled by feelings against Obama.
Yeah, but I feel that he does have something to lose. He still has active political ambitions and is well paid for commentary by various news outlets. I would think this is a situation of "either you're right, or you get branded a conspiracy nutcase". So you'd better be very sure you're right before going so far as filing a lawsuit.
 
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  #147  
Old 11-20-2008, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by South View Post
Yeah, but I feel that he does have something to lose. He still has active political ambitions and is well paid for commentary by various news outlets. I would think this is a situation of "either you're right, or you get branded a conspiracy nutcase". So you'd better be very sure you're right before going so far as filing a lawsuit.
Ambitions and accomplishments are two different things. And the notariety he gains by this stunt will far surpass any popularity he had before, making this a win-win for him. Paris Hilton is well paid for her commentary too, so maybe being branded a nutcase isn't going to hurt him as much as you might think.
I'm sure he can spin a loss on this one so I think he's a winner either way.
 
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  #148  
Old 11-20-2008, 01:05 PM
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I never said the President is a regular citizen, nor did I say that the President should have "complete and total privacy". So, you can stop trying to put words in my mouth right now. That's a juvenile stunt that I won't fall for.

As far as the rest of your post is concerned, please take me out to dinner or something to get me warmed up before you start up with the penis talk, eh?
Hmm, I wonder why these statements sound incredibly opposite?
Quote:
What more must he do? Don't forget, there are privacy concerns here. He may be the President elect, but he's still a citizen and entitled to all the rights that any citizen would be entitled to.
 
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  #149  
Old 11-20-2008, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
Hmm, I wonder why these statements sound incredibly opposite?
Not opposite. Again, trying to put words in my mouth.
Haven't you got any other tricks? This one's gettin' kinda old.

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Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
The President of the United States is not a regular citizen, and being such does not enjoy the same leisures that a casual citizen does, just as a person in the military does not enjoy the exact same rights as the rest of civilians do. That is ridiculous to say that he should have complete and total privacy. President Bush on the other hand should have his penis measured for accuracy because it's the peoples right to know if he is average and truthful, you are being ridiculous.
Please tell us, Gamerslink, which amendments to the Constitution the President does not enjoy the protection of. Please list them by number.
Failing that, perhaps you could post the specific law that grants you the right to invade the President's privacy? I wouldn't mind seeing that either.
 
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  #150  
Old 11-20-2008, 02:55 PM
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I've become a little more intrigued with the whole thing since Alan Keyes filed a lawsuit. I really don't think he'd go out on a limb like that unless he truly felt he was right.
Alan Keyes always appears to think he's right...on all things.. He does have enough avid followers to form a one-ring circus and who will follow him anywhere. He doesn't mind being called a nut...it gets him the attention he craves...
 
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  #151  
Old 11-20-2008, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by FocalPoint View Post
Alan Keyes always appears to think he's right...on all things.. He does have enough avid followers to form a one-ring circus and who will follow him anywhere. He doesn't mind being called a nut...it gets him the attention he craves...
Everyone thinks they're right, otherwise they'd think another way. Is there anyone who disagrees with you that you respect or they're just all nutjobs for not agreeing with you?
 
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  #152  
Old 11-20-2008, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by South View Post
Everyone thinks they're right, otherwise they'd think another way. Is there anyone who disagrees with you that you respect or they're just all nutjobs for not agreeing with you?

There are many people I disagree with but whom I respect. That doesn't mean there are no nut jobs....There are even nut jobs I agree with....nevertheless, they are nut jobs....

Alan Keyes is a nut job...
 
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  #153  
Old 11-20-2008, 09:18 PM
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Sadly, the reaction of many people that are rusted on Republicans can be likened to this...

Pity it's late in the post, but I only saw this today...
 
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  #154  
Old 11-20-2008, 10:52 PM
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  #155  
Old 11-21-2008, 02:37 PM
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Lawsuit challenges citizenship of McCain and Obama...


More on this absurdity...(or should I say...moron, this absurdity...?)

Justice Thomas distributes Obama case for conference

By Linda Bentley | November 21, 2008
Foreign national certified as presidential candidate
Quote:
WASHINGTON, D.C. – On Wednesday, Nov. 19, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas distributed Leo C. Denofrio’s renewed application for a stay of the election for conference on Dec. 5.

If four of the nine justices favor review, a hearing will be scheduled.

His first application was denied by Justice David Souter on Nov. 6. However, rules of the court allow for the renewed submission to a justice of choice.

Beginning in October, Denofrio made his way up through the ranks of the courts until his constitutional question as to the meaning of “natural born citizen” reached the Supreme Court.
Quote:
....asked that the court order New Jersey Secretary of State (SOS) Nina Mitchell Wells to remove the names of Republican candidate John McCain, Democratic candidate Barack Obama and Socialist Workers Party candidate Roger Calero from New Jersey ballots.
Quote:
According to Denofrio, the three candidates are not “natural born citizens,” as required by the Constitution to hold the office of President of the United States.
Quote:
Denofrio contends Obama, even if it were proven he was born in Hawaii, because his father was born in Kenya, having been born with split and competing loyalties, is not a ‘natural born citizen’ as required by Article 2, Section 1, of the U.S. Constitution.”
Quote:
Denofrio states McCain was born in Panama, Calero was born in Nicaragua and Obama’s birthplace has not been verified.

Denofrio states, “… had the U.S. legislature intended to grant ‘natural born citizen’ status to all who were born on U.S. soil, then the 14th Amendment would contain the words ‘natural born citizen,’ but it doesn’t … McCain was born in Panama. Panama is not considered U.S. soil, nor has it ever been considered as such.”
Quote:
Denofrio also quotes a section from the U.S. Department of State’s Foreign Affairs Manual, which states, “Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to U.S. jurisdiction and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.”

Denofrio says McCain was neither born on U.S. soil, nor was he naturalized and is a citizen at birth by statute, which is also addressed in the Foreign Affairs Manual.
Quote:
He said, “And so this proposition leads to the logical conclusion that a natural born citizen is a citizen born in the United States to parents, neither of which is an alien. Having an alien parent would tie such person at birth to the possibility of other loyalties and laws. And such a person, even if he is as loyal and devoted to this country as Senators Obama and McCain have proven to be, is not eligible to hold the office of President of the United States.”


http://www.sonorannews.com/archives/...iceThomas.html

Thomas, we know, will vote on anything he thinks is oppressive....it would be hard to envision the Supreme Court even hearing this...
 
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  #156  
Old 11-21-2008, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by FocalPoint View Post
(...) Quote:
According to Denofrio, the three candidates are not “natural born citizens,” as required by the Constitution to hold the office of President of the United States. (...)
I suspect that the paragraph in Article2 Section1 of the US Constitution that Denofrio is referring to is this one:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec1



Denofrio seems to be attempting to define "natural born citizen". My question is, why? Isn't it already defined somewhere? And if so, can someone point out where that information might be found?
 
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  #157  
Old 11-21-2008, 07:44 PM
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Both McCain and Obama are eligible as far as I am concerned. This whole issue is loony tunes.
 
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  #158  
Old 11-21-2008, 07:49 PM
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Both McCain and Obama are eligible as far as I am concerned. This whole issue is loony tunes.
Understood. But what is the definition of natural born citizen that we are meant to go by, do you know, Rank?
 
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  #159  
Old 11-21-2008, 10:05 PM
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Understood. But what is the definition of natural born citizen that we are meant to go by, do you know, Rank?
The Constitution says nothing more than the words you quote. John McCain was born of two U.S. citizens but not in the United States and Obama was born of one U.S. citizen (his mother) in a United State (Hawaii)....both are qualified even though the Constitution does not address the issue of being born on or near a U.S. Naval base...
 
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  #160  
Old 11-22-2008, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by FocalPoint View Post
The Constitution says nothing more than the words you quote. John McCain was born of two U.S. citizens but not in the United States and Obama was born of one U.S. citizen (his mother) in a United State (Hawaii)....both are qualified even though the Constitution does not address the issue of being born on or near a U.S. Naval base...
Denofrio seems to be attempting to define "natural born citizen". My question was, why? Isn't it already defined somewhere?

By your reply in the quote above I can only assume that your answer to my questions equate to: I don't know.

Now, another question; Do you think that it is proper that the US government should continue to retain this rule without specifically defining the phrase, assuming that the phrase is not officially defined somewhere in the rules for running for president of the United States?

Last edited by Atom; 11-22-2008 at 05:54 AM.
 
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