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  #121  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:32 PM
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Let's put this silliness aside for a moment.

With all that's going on, banks going under, 700 billion dollar bailouts, the housing market, bankruptcies, bad mortgages, wars, etc., how important could semantics over respect for the flag or the details of a security check be?
Seriously. These are supposed to be election issues right now?
I realize that the US isn't in a recession (yeah, that one's just for you, Bob), but I still think the economy should be the focus of thought.
It seems kind of petty to be arguing about a person's posture and their proximity to a flag or a birth certificate or a bridge in Alaska.
There are bigger fish to fry.
 
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  #122  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:11 PM
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The fact of the matter is that you cannot tell people on what priorities you should make your choice. Some people vote based on economical issues. Others on character. The big picture. You have to give people an insight on what is important to them. Everyone has a right to vote on the issues he/she prefers to.
 
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  #123  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:16 PM
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I wasn't telling anyone what to base their vote on. I was asking questions and stating my opinion.
You can base your vote on the colour of Obama's suit if you want, but, again, I think there are larger issues at hand.
 
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  #124  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:22 PM
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Worth reading, it puts that whole Ayers story into perspective...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ill_ayers.html

Quote:
McCain says in an Internet ad that the two "ran a radical 'education' foundation" in Chicago. But the supposedly "radical" group was supported by a Republican governor and included on its board prominent local civic leaders, including one former Nixon administration official who has given $1,500 to McCain's campaign this year. Education Week says the group's work "reflected mainstream thinking" among school reformers. The group was the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, started by a $49 million grant from the Annenberg Foundation, which was established by the publisher Walter Annenberg, a prominent Republican whose widow, Leonore, is a contributor to the McCain campaign.
 
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  #125  
Old 10-10-2008, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
Worth reading, it puts that whole Ayers story into perspective...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ill_ayers.html
Hey Ferre, what are you doing man? Are you trying to spoil their fun?

Now they have no choice but to stop this stupid nonsense about Barack’s past and talk about how their "smart" VP candidate fail face down in mud puddle she dug for Obama.

Or maybe they don’t wanna to know the truth (as if they don’t know the truth already) and we will hear from them again.
 
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  #126  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:51 PM
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I feel like I'm repeating myself here....

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The Chicago Annenberg Challenge stands as Barack Obama’s most important executive experience to date. By its own account, CAC was a largely a failure. And a series of critical evaluations point to reasons for that failure, including a poor strategy, to which the foundation over-committed in 1995, and over-reliance on community organizers with insufficient education expertise. The failure of CAC thus raises entirely legitimate questions, both about Obama’s competence, his alliances with radical community organizers, and about Ayers’s continuing influence over CAC and its board, headed by Obama. Above all, by continuing to fund Ayers’s personal projects, and those of his political-educational allies, Obama was lending moral and material support to Ayers’s profoundly radical efforts. Ayers’s terrorist history aside, that makes the Ayers-Obama relationship a perfectly legitimate issue in this campaign.
Read this fact based story by Stanley Kurtz taken from the Records of the CAC itself.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...M4Y2MwM2ViMjY=

The The Chicago Annenberg Challenge was a radical organization. The money they gave out was not given directly to schools but to community organizations. This is not directly what made it a device of radicalism. You will need to review further the CAC's practices and devices to fully understand. I'm not going to widen the debate here towards another subject. But if you read the documents, if you can get to them prior to the November Election, you should understand.
 
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  #127  
Old 10-11-2008, 12:12 AM
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This image is an undoctored image, it is an image of Obama during the singing of the National Anthem. While it may be acceptable for some to only stand at attention facing the flag these days.
Quote:
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. -- United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171
[/QUOTE]

These thoughts I have on the matter may stem from my fathers Patriotism from serving in the U.S. Marines during Vietnam, or my time in the U.S. Navy. They may just be the average American's view on right and wrong.
But I think, that the person that is President of the United States of America is not just a person that decides economic policy directions, or that holds the veto power over legislation that comes from the House. But is also a symbol of America. A guide and motivational support to those that serve her military. A mentor and guide to her citizens and children. Someone who is in charge of setting an example that others should strive to follow.

When you have someone that refuses to put their hand over their heart during the National Anthem, among other things, I feel this is completely the wrong message to be sending, it to me, shows a level of disrespect beyond that of someone that is a banker or a construction worker, or a minister. That one person is the representation of us as a people and has a different standard to be held to than the average person. Just as those that are in the military are held to a different standard of behavior and respect than the average citizen.

That being said, the National Anthem incident is by itself wrong for him to have done. Then when you add to the equation a prolonged and supportive relationship with a person like Bill Ayres, Rev. Wright, Farakan(or however you spell his name), Father Pfleger(again spelling), and many of the other people he has through his life surrounded himself with and used as mentors you have to question his qualification to be that one person to sit in such a position. Regardless the economic and other issues. If he doesn't understand the fundamentals of what this country is about, and follows beliefs that show a desire to want to undermine the very essence of what we stand for, how can a person possibly fix the problems of this country in any way that would be acceptable for it?

What I'm really saying is this, you can take just one incident and make a major deal about it, or you can explain it away. That is up to the opinion of the receiver of the information. But if you look at all the incidents then you start to see a pattern and a character trait. And the character trait that he gives is not a good character trait at all. And if you compare McCain's character and Obama's character, Obama isn't even on the stage.
 
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  #128  
Old 10-11-2008, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Let's put this silliness aside for a moment.

With all that's going on, banks going under, 700 billion dollar bailouts, the housing market, bankruptcies, bad mortgages, wars, etc., how important could semantics over respect for the flag or the details of a security check be?
Seriously. These are supposed to be election issues right now?
I realize that the US isn't in a recession (yeah, that one's just for you, Bob), but I still think the economy should be the focus of thought.
It seems kind of petty to be arguing about a person's posture and their proximity to a flag or a birth certificate or a bridge in Alaska.
There are bigger fish to fry.
I'll refer you to my previous post about the issues, however, the birth certificate and the reasoning of whether it should be questioned. Yes, it is a viable topic to be looked into. If he does not meet the Constitutional Requirements to become President then everything else is a mute subject as far as he is concerned.

And if it is proven that his certificate isn't an actual long version certificate of birth and he was in fact born in Kenya and then brought here and he has been dishonest about this, then that too adds to all the other questionable character issues that surround him.

And before it's implied, said, or asked. I would say the exact same thing about anyone that had similar relationships and history, or questionable birth regardless of their party affiliation.
 
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  #129  
Old 10-11-2008, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
Worth reading, it puts that whole Ayers story into perspective...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ill_ayers.html
Fere, that is a Genetic Fallacy, just because more than one party was included, or there were associations of people from other parties does not make the practices right, nor does it mean that others were not duped into supporting something they didn't know or understand the entire aspect of, that wouldn't be the first time for that happening.

You have to look at the actual practices and relationships inside the organization itself to form a judgement of it was doing. And again, another small fact, none of those you mention are saying they had very little or no relationship with someone that they actually did, the records of the CAC itself prove it, and they aren't running for the office of President of the United States. Again that alone puts everything on a completely different level than the average person.
 
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  #130  
Old 10-11-2008, 04:26 AM
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What about the REAL political issues gamerslink? Or is smearing eachother the real issue nowadays to win elections your land of the free?

America, to an outsider (which is about 85% of the world population) is displaying itself as rather pathetic, the little credibility that was left after Bush is being demolished by the new candidates, nothing to be proud off in my view.
 
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  #131  
Old 10-11-2008, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
And before it's implied, said, or asked. I would say the exact same thing about anyone that had similar relationships and history, or questionable birth regardless of their party affiliation.
But you've proven that you wouldn't say the same thing about people you support.

You seem to be a big fan of George Bush, despite his relationships with the Bin Laden family (Public Enemy #1).
He even made sure that the whole Bin Laden family had safe passage out of the US, something not afforded to the US citizens on those four planes on 9-11.
He put the needs of his friends, The Bin Laden family, people related to the guy who killed 3000 Americans, ahead of those of his own citizens. While he's standing at ground zero, proclaiming that the "evil doers" will pay, he's also insuring that every person related to the main "evil doer" in charge has a nice safe flight out of the US so that they can not even be questioned about the pile of rubble he's standing on.
Yet, you support this man with enthusiasm.

With all due respect, Gamer, I honestly don't think you would say the exact same thing of anyone else.
 
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  #132  
Old 10-11-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
What about the REAL political issues gamerslink? Or is smearing eachother the real issue nowadays to win elections your land of the free?

America, to an outsider (which is about 85% of the world population) is displaying itself as rather pathetic, the little credibility that was left after Bush is being demolished by the new candidates, nothing to be proud off in my view.
I have to agree with the fact that we are all wasting a ton of time. We wouldn't be if one side agreed to let the public into their candidate's past as all Presidential candidates should agree on if they want to run for the highest office.
 
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  #133  
Old 10-11-2008, 02:22 PM
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I totally agree with you in fact the media and the public are overlooking a lot of things about O' Bama such as his ties with Ayers a well know communist sympathizer, and terrorist and Acorn and his Racist Preacher. He would have to be pretty a liar or dumb to not know what these people were all about especially after attending that church for 20 years. I have heard O'Bama has actually more Arab heritage in him than anything else. As a public servant I believe he is actually required by law to show his credentials if asked.
pugs
 
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  #134  
Old 10-11-2008, 03:20 PM
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It's a good thing that McCain is sooo much better...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XqDnYrjci-g

 
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  #135  
Old 10-11-2008, 04:20 PM
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google Michael Savage the talk show host This was one of the issues he speaking about the other night.

Last edited by pugs; 10-11-2008 at 04:27 PM.
 
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  #136  
Old 10-11-2008, 04:26 PM
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I never claimed that I thought Mccain was better. In fact there is a lot I dislike about Mccain. I am an independent I love this Country but it has a lot of flaws and the biggest ones are the politicians.
 
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  #137  
Old 10-11-2008, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
Read this fact based story by Stanley Kurtz taken from the Records of the CAC itself.
.
Your link wouldn't work for me but I still will ask you something

Are you saying that factcheck.org got it wrong and that your sources more knowledgeable than factcheck or factcheck engaged in facts cover up and bias?

I need your answer, please.
 
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  #138  
Old 10-11-2008, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Your link wouldn't work for me but I still will ask you something

Are you saying that factcheck.org got it wrong and that your sources more knowledgeable than factcheck or factcheck engaged in facts cover up and bias?

I need your answer, please.
Do you really expect that an organization run and sponsored by the Annenberg Foundation would be totally unbiased regarding any questions relating to the Annenberg Foundation?

Quote:
FactCheck.org is a nonprofit website[1] that describes its own goal as "[reducing] the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics." In its efforts, FactCheck says it is nonpartisan.[2] It is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, and is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FactCheck
 
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  #139  
Old 10-11-2008, 08:41 PM
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Gamer, you were saved by the bell… Bob Barr

Bob, I am sure you know where to find it so without delays get last debate video, watch it and listen carefully McCain’s mentioning factcheck as his source
 
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  #140  
Old 10-11-2008, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Gamer, you were saved by the bell… Bob Barr

Bob, I am sure you know where to find it so without delays get last debate video, watch it and listen carefully McCain’s mentioning factcheck as his source
Just like wikipedia, factcheck.org can sometimes be a solid source of information but it can also sometimes have its biases. Some people swear by it as Gospel Truth while others condemn it as absolute garbage.

I think of it as somewhere in between. While it can be a good source, sometimes it's just not. I don't think it ever hurts to fact-check the fact-checkers.
 
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