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  #1  
Old 10-08-2008, 02:54 PM
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What is the true definition of Christianity?

Quote:
But one of our principle Founding Fathers, Thomas Jefferson, elaborated about the history of common law in his letter to Thomas Cooper on February 10, 1814:

"For we know that the common law is that system of law which was introduced by the Saxons on their settlement in England, and altered from time to time by proper legislative authority from that time to the date of Magna Charta, which terminates the period of the common law. . . This settlement took place about the middle of the fifth century. But Christianity was not introduced till the seventh century; the conversion of the first christian king of the Heptarchy having taken place about the year 598, and that of the last about 686. Here then, was a space of two hundred years, during which the common law was in existence, and Christianity no part of it."
Taken from http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

I would think that though our founding fathers of this country were wise in many ways, they were not above misconception if in fact the above statement is fact. As one may define Christianity in a tightened sense as those that believe in Christ then yes Christianity was not an influence on the common law, however, Judaism is much old and is where the Ten Commandments stem from, the old testament of the Christian Bible. So is it not possible that the religion of God, and loosely put though may be deemed offensive to those that practice Judaism or Islam religions, Christianity? It is quite popular for people especially those relaxed and outside the debate environment or political arena to benot so focused on exact contextual definition. This being the case many times someone may make reference to Christianity to cover the belief in God when in fact at it's true definition it is the belief in Christ. And Christianity does hold many of the religious historical beliefs as Judaism, as much of Islamic belief is also stemmed from the other two.
 
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2008, 04:46 PM
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Well yes, the true meaning of Christianity is a follower of Christ, thus the name CHRISTianity or CHRISTian.

That said, one must understand that certain Christian faiths carry the belief in the Trinity thus allowing Christ on par with God also so in that case it would be deemed the same thing.

Take into account that the laws from the old testament where put to rest when Christ died as stated in the bible as he was the new covenant that replaced the old. - Ok, a little deep for for me for these early hours of the morning...
 
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:50 PM
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http://individualism.com/community/showthread.php?t=30
 
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  #4  
Old 10-08-2008, 05:05 PM
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True, however, does it still not lend itself to the argument that semantics alone are the only thing separating Common Law and Christian, more appropriately should be addressed as religious beliefs? And most Christians do believe in the Ten Commandment, at least the ones I have grown up with. I was raised Methodist, baptized Baptist, and have went to a number of different denominations including Pentacostle or however you spell it, brain freeze, but that is what my grandmother was and her father was a minister of it for most if not all of his adult life.

The price one pays for violating one of the Ten Commandments may have been changed with the introduction of the New Testament but did not the rules themselves stay the same? Perhaps expanded on a bit
 
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2008, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
Take into account that the laws from the old testament where put to rest when Christ died as stated in the bible as he was the new covenant that replaced the old. - Ok, a little deep for for me for these early hours of the morning...
Not true. It's a wide spread misonception that the laws of the old testament were "put to rest", according to the new testament, Jesus did NOT render the old laws as invalid at all, you should not read that book selectively and only pick that what you like...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW TESTAMENT
1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.
2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)
3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)
4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)
5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)
6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)
7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18
“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).
9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

Notice: "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God."

Clearly, Jesus did NOT render the old laws absolete, as I just proved with texts from the new testament.

Last edited by Ferre; 10-09-2008 at 12:40 AM.
 
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:48 AM
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You do realise that there were hundreds of laws and by laws in those times, I am not talking about the ten commandments, I am talking about the old laws that were to be followed.

Ok, lets see what the old testament has to say about this: -
Jeremiah 31:31

Old Testament

Quote:
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD.
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people. 34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
Ok, so the old testament even states that 'The LORD' will bring into place a New Covenant at some point.

New Testament:

Luke 22:20
Quote:
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.


2 Corinthians 3:6
Quote:
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
One must also bear in mind that before Christ died, things were different as according to the bible, Christ died to save all man, correct? So this would mean that man was on a path to destruction as they could NOT be saved until he gave up his life for them.

Common sense would say that when he did this, things altered as suddenly (according to the bible) there was a way for man to be saved, and so things suddenly changed as a different door was opened foe mankind.

Somehow, I don't think thegamerslink was after all this within this topic but when the old testament itself states that it is going to be altered in the future because of a new covenant then it is not really contradicting itself as it already said so almost 1000 years before..

I agree Jesus did NOT render all the old laws obselete as he kept the ten commandments and there were 100's of laws... Though when asked which of the 10 commandments were of most importance, he mentioned that they were all important but 2 stood out as he answered them.
 
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2008, 02:09 AM
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Are you saying that Jesus was a liar G10?

He clearly stated:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

Was he lying? Or was he just contradicting himself? And what about; "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

Do you really believe that you know better what that means than Peter and Matthew?
 
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2008, 07:26 AM
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You are the one that has said he is a liar, not me, meaning that you asked the question if I think he is a liar.

In answer to that, no I don't, but then again I never said that a new covenant will be made with the people, the old testament said it and then i never said that I was the new covenant, he did.

You have interpreted those words your way and I have mine. One of us is correct and one of us isn't, I am not going to to say "are YOU saying he is a liar" just because one of us has understood that wrong.

Oh and it wasn't Peter or Matthew who mentioned the new covenant but Christ himself as they wrote what he said and no I do not believe I know better what it means than them either, do you believe you do?
 
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2008, 09:04 AM
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All who believe in a God will claim that God to be perfect... Also will agree the wages of sin is death...

If God be perfect only a perfect sacrifice can be received of a perfect God and thus God himself had to become flesh and live as Man upon the earth to save man from the wages he chose to earn of his own free will... To understand the truth of God one must 1st receive the Grace of God for even Faith in God is received from the Grace of God...

No man seeks God in truth unless the seed of truth be planted in the man... Jesus Christ is of our very Creator and also the light, the Way the truth and the even word of God of which all things were created...

A true Christian is one who has receive the Grace of God and will place all other people above himself serving unto God 1st and unto man 2nd always striving to do the will of God as we are taught of our Gods Son Jesus Christ...

True Christians do not believe in war for we would rather die of the flesh than kill to survive... We are taught to love our enemy.

A True Christians war will always be with his or her own flesh...
 
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2008, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
You have interpreted those words your way and I have mine.
Wrong again, I did not "interpreted" any of the bible's words, I just copy them as they are. And those words say: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."

What's there to interpret other than that Jesus said this; "I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." and "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets"

I know that guys like you interpret the bible as-they-see-fit, but also that is forbidden for believers according Peter.

I also know for sure that large parts of the "bible believing" community do not subscribe to your interpretation, for them the new testament did not abolish the laws in the old testament. Who is wrong and who is right is a matter of what version of interpretation one subscribes to, which takes me back to: 2 Peter 20-21 NAB which state that "there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation"

Pretty clear, no?
 
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  #11  
Old 10-09-2008, 09:41 AM
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john could you ban a few of these people please
 
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2008, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kristeejo View Post
john could you ban a few of these people please
Be careful what you ask for in here.
 
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
I know that guys like you interpret the bible as-they-see-fit, but also that is forbidden for believers according Peter.

Pretty clear, no?
Interesting..

So because "guys like me" do not see it your way, this means that I am obviously wrong as have interpreted it and not you hmmm, ok

In my view you are seeing it wrong as read what you are quoting to me..

Quote:
Wrong again, I did not "interpreted" any of the bible's words, I just copy them as they are. And those words say: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."
What was this law of the prophets that Christ had come down to fulfil and what did he mean when he said (as you quoted) - "Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." Taken Place?.... How can a set of rules/laws take place, surely they just are as how can a law take place? - Secondly, how can you fulfil a law? Maybe he meant that he was going to be a good boy

My take would be Pauls letter to the Hebrew Christians when he wrote:

Quote:
13Furthermore, though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and in the uncircumcised state of YOUR flesh, [God] made YOU alive together with him. He kindly forgave us all our trespasses.

14 and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us; and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the cross.
This kind of states that the handwritten decress were nailed with Christ to the cross.

Galations 2: 15-16
Quote:
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners from the nations,

16 knowing as we do that a man is declared righteous, not due to works of law, but only through faith toward Christ Jesus, even we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be declared righteous due to faith toward Christ, and not due to works of law, because due to works of law no flesh will be declared righteous.
 
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
So because "guys like me" do not see it your way, this means that I am obviously wrong as have interpreted it and not you hmmm
Wrong again G10. As I said, I do not interpret anything, I just copy and paste what's written in the bible, you are the one who's doing the interpretation which is, according to the same bible, forbidden.

...but then again, each his own, be my guest in the believe that your interpretation is "the right one". I don't believe in any of that stuff, I just copy and paste it.


 
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  #15  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
Wrong again G10. As I said, I do not interpret anything, I just copy and paste what's written in the bible, you are the one who's doing the interpretation which is, according to the same bible, forbidden.

...but then again, each his own, be my guest in the believe that your interpretation is "the right one". I don't believe in any of that stuff, I just copy and paste it.

You copied and pasted, good

And what did I do, re-write it or also copy and paste?
 
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  #16  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:19 PM
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Btw Gio, someone greened me for the first post in this tread and added "exactly so". Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't buy your personal "interpretation" Don't get me wrong, I'm aware that there are millions of people who subscribe to your interpretation but as I said before, millions of others don't. Who's right? That, my friend, I guess is in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

...and as I said before,...each his own. Just don't try to convince me of your subscription, I don't buy it.
 
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  #17  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
You copied and pasted, good

And what did I do, re-write it or also copy and paste?
Nah, you used scripture to try and convince me your interpretation is "the right one", you even used the words "my take".
 
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  #18  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:51 PM
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Btw, "Christ" comes from the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed".

..and according to Jewish language scholars, one of the main ingredients of the so called anointing oil was Cannabis. (Weed - Marijuana)

I kid you not.


http://www.freeanointing.org/Is_it_C...nti-Christ.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2633187.stm
http://www.thc-ministry.org/thelivingtorah.html

 
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
Btw Gio, someone greened me for the first post in this tread and added "exactly so". Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't buy your personal "interpretation" Don't get me wrong, I'm aware that there are millions of people who subscribe to your interpretation but as I said before, millions of others don't. Who's right? That, my friend, I guess is in the eye of the beholder, as they say.

...and as I said before,...each his own. Just don't try to convince me of your subscription, I don't buy it.
I do not want to convince you of (as you put it) 'my personal interpretation that is subscribed to by millions' and it is good that you don't buy it as otherwise things would be boring if we all thought the same

You are happy with your way of seeing it as it works well for you and I am happy with mine as it works for me.

Who is right or wrong is irrelavent as what is important is that we have both found our inner peace with the way we see things.

You already know what I am like dude and I am not here to point the finger at someone and call them all sorts just because we see things different..... Though that said, give me your address and I will come around and have you burnt at the stake you heathen
 
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Old 10-09-2008, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
Btw, "Christ" comes from the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed".

..and according to Jewish language scholars, one of the main ingredients of the so called anointing oil was Cannabis. (Weed - Marijuana)

I kid you not.


http://www.freeanointing.org/Is_it_C...nti-Christ.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2633187.stm
http://www.thc-ministry.org/thelivingtorah.html

Ahh ok. So what does that make you, Ferre? A prophet?
 
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