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  #21  
Old 11-29-2008, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferre View Post
I sometimes wonder,...when "morality" is something that comes with religion (and according to their own words it comes only with the abrahamic brands of religion), why it is that statistics show higher crime, murder, divorce and teen pregnancy rates in "mainly christian" nations compared to mainly secular societies?


Makes you wonder about their self-proclaimed "morals" eh?

The research is existing btw...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle571206.ece
I don't think morality comes from religion. Morality can exist without religion, but I think religion (or simply belief/faith) could have been what originally put order into morality and the way people acted in civilization.

But yes, obviously morality can exist without religion. I have morals and I am not religious by any means.
 
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  #22  
Old 11-29-2008, 07:29 PM
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Heaven be compared to a mansion with many rooms.
That would John 14.2. I try to refrain from thumping the Bible but in this case I thought it the right thing to do.

More than enough people have died and continue to die because of intolerent fanatics who believe theirs is the only true religion. There is room in Heaven for all people of all faiths who practice their religion with malice towards none and a strict adherence to the tenets of their faith.

If you take the time to take an objective look at the six major religions you will find that for the most part they echo the same values of love one another and do unto others as you would like done unto you. Maybe each society had their own messenger from a common source??????

In the current world the radical Muslims, a small segment of that faith are making all Muslims look bad. The Christians had their turn at that during the Crusades.
 
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  #23  
Old 11-29-2008, 09:03 PM
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Maybe they think there going to hell but that don't mean there racist. Maybe look up the definition of racist...?
 
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  #24  
Old 11-29-2008, 09:35 PM
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But yes, obviously morality can exist without religion. I have morals and I am not religious by any means.
Yes, morality exists outside of religion. As does immorality. But both reside in religion as well...
 
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2008, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
That doesn't make sense... I don't think you understand what objective morality means.
So if this objective morality doesn't exist, why is it that only you can seem to define it? You must possess some unearthly divine power to discern something that doesn't exist as you say.

So this moral law set by God, which is supposed to be practiced by all humans is your definition -right? This IS your quote:

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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
The whole point of objective morality is that it can't exist for someone on a personal level. It means there is a complete morality which applies to all people. It's quite hard to explain because it doesn't exist or cannot be seen to exist, but to put it simply if there was a God who made a set of morals for people to live by - then this would be an objective morality which applies to everyone.

But the world isn't like that. All culture's and even people have different views and what is and isn't moral. To me and hopefully you having sex with a minor is immoral, however some groups around the world would disagree.

Objective morality can't not exist for me but exist for you, it either exists or it doesn't.
Look to my 1st post for reference: http://www.v7n.com/forums/politics/1...tml#post983563

Because now you're saying I didn't understand what we were talking about here. But you don't remember my post about the Covenant? That IS that objective morality you say doesn't exist. Yeah, it may have been forgotten by almost every Tom, Dick, and Harry today. But not all of us have forgotten it.

I remember you didn't touch too many points from that 1st post, perhaps that's why you forgot that I've posted the answer to your 'hard to define' objective morality. That law IS the covenant: "One God, Worship no other gods, Love Him with all thy heart and soul." Anything else strays into pagan worship. And pagan worship is where you'll find most of your killers, rapists and child abductors. Go ahead, research it -I beg that you do. Unless you really don't want to know, but what if the law IS real? The More Subtle Natural Laws don't require that you believe in them for them to still affect you.

You don't have to believe any of this stuff, dude. Sometimes I find myself repeating the same things over and over again, but I can't make you believe. But I can tell you what I know to be true, whether you discard it or not. Take care when you speak things about religions or God that you haven't took the time to discover yourself.

Maybe you and those like you should take 10 years to pray within yourselves to see if you can find a glimmer of God or the truth. Then, after giving the test a real go if you still have found nothing, come back and share with us what you've not found. I'll almost guarantee that if you sincerely pray and take a good ten years. There's no way in hell you'll come up empty handed. Ever heard of "knock and the door shall be opened?" But if you never knocked, then how could you just say they (HE) wouldn't have opened the door?
 
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2008, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
So if this objective morality doesn't exist, why is it that only you can seem to define it? You must possess some unearthly divine power to discern something that doesn't exist as you say.

So this moral law set by God, which is supposed to be practiced by all humans is your definition -right? This IS your quote: ...
It's not only me who can define it. Jesus lord, is it really that hard to go onto Google and find out what 'objective morality' means? I can't keep arguing back and forth with you whilst trying to explain what relevant terms mean.

My definition was an extremely simple way of trying to explain it to you, don't take it literally. Objective morality just means that there is one set of morals that is 'right' and which applies to everyone, regardless of what they believe.

Christians believe certain things are moral and Muslims believe other things are moral, those are just their subjective views on morality. Now if objective morality were to exist, then what those people thought to be right or wrong would not matter because there would be an eternal and universal set of morals which applied, regardless of people's difference in views.

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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
...Because now you're saying I didn't understand what we were talking about here. But you don't remember my post about the Covenant? That IS that objective morality you say doesn't exist. Yeah, it may have been forgotten by almost every Tom, Dick, and Harry today. But not all of us have forgotten it. ...
That is not objective morality. That is the subjective morality of whoever formed that Covenant. Do you see how this works. Nobody can DECIDE what is right or wrong (only for themselves), objective morality is when something simply IS or ISN'T wrong. And nobody can decide that objectively.

I had a feeling the argument was going to go this way...

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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
...I remember you didn't touch too many points from that 1st post, perhaps that's why you forgot that I've posted the answer to your 'hard to define' objective morality. That law IS the covenant: "One God, Worship no other gods, Love Him with all thy heart and soul." Anything else strays into pagan worship. And pagan worship is where you'll find most of your killers, rapists and child abductors. Go ahead, research it -I beg that you do. Unless you really don't want to know, but what if the law IS real? The More Subtle Natural Laws don't require that you believe in them for them to still affect you. ...
I didn't think there were many points worth touching upon, sorry.

If the law is true then that would be objective morality, but that is assuming it is true. You have absolutely NO reason to believe it is true. Unless you can say otherwise. You can't just say you think it is, because that is your subjective view on things.

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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
...You don't have to believe any of this stuff, dude. Sometimes I find myself repeating the same things over and over again, but I can't make you believe. But I can tell you what I know to be true, whether you discard it or not. Take care when you speak things about religions or God that you haven't took the time to discover yourself. ...
You don't know anything to be true when it comes to spirituality and faith, nobody does. Fair enough, you can 'know' it to be true within yourself. But like I myself seem to be repeating over and over again, that is your subjective view on things. Are you denying this?

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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
...Maybe you and those like you should take 10 years to pray within yourselves to see if you can find a glimmer of God or the truth. ...
Seriously dude, you have no idea how ridiculous that sounds to me. Which God do you want me to pray to? Do you want me to choose one at random? Does it not matter which God I choose?

To me that sounds as ridiculous as telling me to go pray to Conan the Barbarian for 10 years. Religions are man-made, it is as simple as that. Why would I put 10 years of work into a completely random religion just to try and find a God that I don't even think exists (I'm talking about religion-specific Gods here). Say if one religion was completely true, I'd have like a one in 200 chance of choosing the right one, that is a pretty damn small chance to risk 10 years on.

You are completely digressing from the issue, you are talking about God and not religion. I am completely open to the idea of God, I consider it feasible and I personally believe that their could be a God. I have no issue with that at all. I am talking about RELIGION. I think you're just getting angry because I have offended your beliefs, and now you're trying to argue with me using terms you don't understand.

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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
...Then, after giving the test a real go if you still have found nothing, come back and share with us what you've not found. I'll almost guarantee that if you sincerely pray and take a good ten years. There's no way in hell you'll come up empty handed. Ever heard of "knock and the door shall be opened?" But if you never knocked, then how could you just say they (HE) wouldn't have opened the door?
Show me the door.
 
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  #27  
Old 11-30-2008, 05:43 AM
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Yes, morality exists outside of religion. As does immorality. But both reside in religion as well...
And what point are you trying to make? I already know this, I never said otherwise.
 
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  #28  
Old 11-30-2008, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
Christians believe certain things are moral and Muslims believe other things are moral, those are just their subjective views on morality. Now if objective morality were to exist, then what those people thought to be right or wrong would not matter because there would be an eternal and universal set of morals which applied, regardless of people's difference in views.

That is not objective morality. That is the subjective morality of whoever formed that Covenant. Do you see how this works. Nobody can DECIDE what is right or wrong (only for themselves), objective morality is when something simply IS or ISN'T wrong. And nobody can decide that objectively.
See, that's just it. It does exist, and I showed you why. The Covenant is the same in both Islam and Christianity also in other religions which are not paganism. The Covenant wasn't created by man, to your error. And at the heart of the every religion and all their teachings is that "There's only One God, no others, and to love Him with all thy heart, soul, and mind.

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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
I didn't think there were many points worth touching upon, sorry.

If the law is true then that would be objective morality, but that is assuming it is true. You have absolutely NO reason to believe it is true. Unless you can say otherwise. You can't just say you think it is, because that is your subjective view on things.
By golly you've done it again. There is no IF, maybe to you there is. But not to someone who knows. I figured you didn't touch on the Covenant too much because you like many others don't really understand it. Don't feel bad, there's a whole world of people out there waring today who have forgotten the Law written by the hand of God -The Covenant- my friend.

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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
You don't know anything to be true when it comes to spirituality and faith, nobody does. Fair enough, you can 'know' it to be true within yourself. But like I myself seem to be repeating over and over again, that is your subjective view on things. Are you denying this?
Wrong again, there's a (BIG) difference between opinion (subjective view on things) and positive knowledge. This may be hard for you to grasp -I've spoken to many people who claim the nonexistence of God all with the same conclusion. Are you ready??? THERE IS A WAY TO PROVE HIS EXISTENCE FOR YOURSELF.

Just because you yourself may not know of the ancient technique, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like I said, you've got some 'knocking' to do. Unless you never really wanted to prove it. But you won't do it in a day -mind you. It takes years of dedication, He's not something you can just verify on some i-f-y whimsically whim!

Really, I'm serious.

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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
Seriously dude, you have no idea how ridiculous that sounds to me. Which God do you want me to pray to? Do you want me to choose one at random? Does it not matter which God I choose?
Now there's where you're lost. What do you mean which God to choose? I already stated that there's only One God. The different names you may hear all refer to the same entity. So where's the difference? In the way they may talk in Mexico to the way they talk in England? The words may sound different, but the meanings are the same. God, Christ, Jehovah, Buddha, Allah -same God my friend.

This is why I say they've forgotten the Covenant. They think they're praying to different gods. Hell no, that's paganism! Which breeds all your vilest of sins.

Doesn't matter which name you call Him by, just as long as you know He's the One the others are talking about also. Then you wouldn't have just worshiped another god. See, this rule is simple my friend -why make it complicated?

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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
You are completely digressing from the issue, you are talking about God and not religion. I am completely open to the idea of God, I consider it feasible and I personally believe that their could be a God. I have no issue with that at all. I am talking about RELIGION. I think you're just getting angry because I have offended your beliefs, and now you're trying to argue with me using terms you don't understand.

Show me the door.
Belief and love in One God is the hight of true religion. Remembering His greatest commandment, yeah that's real religion buddy. You don't even have to claim a particular religion to follow God's law -the Covenant supersedes anything. You say I'm straying from the point but I'm still here at the answer to your question. I think it's just that you care not to learn it. You rather be able to get away with your belief without further investigating the issue. Then make smug judgments about others' when you don't even know them. That's prejudice (to make false prejudgments).

Anyhow, it is your choice and we'll all be held responsible for the choices we make. I know you agree with that at least. I wanted to share one more thing that may just help you. I know you're probably wondering what is that technique for a man to prove the existence of God to himself? -Yeah, I bet you're wondering. I couldn't give you the technique for I'm not qualified to teach you. But a Master could.

They say prayer is when we talk to God. They also say meditation is when we listen. Meditation is said to be the highest form of prayer. The only direction I can point you in would be to find a book by the name of The Path of the Masters -Dr. Julian P. Johnson. Then start your search from there. If you truly wish to prove it for yourself and gain some 'positive knowledge' on the subject, this would be the first step.

P.S.

You said that you believe in the possibility of One God. That's very good, and what most Atheists don't even know is that God would rather that they wanted proof of His existence than just blind faith. It's so funny, because if they were willing to prove His existence to themselves then they would be more apt to following and remembering His Real Commands. And there is a way, no it's not easy -unless maybe you can see it that way. It's also scientific to a Tee, search for that book if your mind really seeks proof. Then you may mark a starting point for your grand experiment.
 
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  #29  
Old 11-30-2008, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
See, that's just it. It does exist, and I showed you why. The Covenant is the same in both Islam and Christianity also in other religions which are not paganism. The Covenant wasn't created by man, to your error. And at the heart of the every religion and all their teachings is that "There's only One God, no others, and to love Him with all thy heart, soul, and mind.



By golly you've done it again. There is no IF, maybe to you there is. But not to someone who knows. I figured you didn't touch on the Covenant too much because you like many others don't really understand it. Don't feel bad, there's a whole world of people out there waring today who have forgotten the Law written by the hand of God -The Covenant- my friend.



Wrong again, there's a (BIG) difference between opinion (subjective view on things) and positive knowledge. This may be hard for you to grasp -I've spoken to many people who claim the nonexistence of God all with the same conclusion. Are you ready??? THERE IS A WAY TO PROVE HIS EXISTENCE FOR YOURSELF.

Just because you yourself may not know of the ancient technique, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Like I said, you've got some 'knocking' to do. Unless you never really wanted to prove it. But you won't do it in a day -mind you. It takes years of dedication, He's not something you can just verify on some i-f-y whimsically whim!

Really, I'm serious.



Now there's where you're lost. What do you mean which God to choose? I already stated that there's only One God. The different names you may hear all refer to the same entity. So where's the difference? In the way they may talk in Mexico to the way they talk in England? The words may sound different, but the meanings are the same. God, Christ, Jehovah, Buddha, Allah -same God my friend.

This is why I say they've forgotten the Covenant. They think they're praying to different gods. Hell no, that's paganism! Which breeds all your vilest of sins.

Doesn't matter which name you call Him by, just as long as you know He's the One the others are talking about also. Then you wouldn't have just worshiped another god. See, this rule is simple my friend -why make it complicated?



Belief and love in One God is the hight of true religion. Remembering His greatest commandment, yeah that's real religion buddy. You don't even have to claim a particular religion to follow God's law -the Covenant supersedes anything. You say I'm straying from the point but I'm still here at the answer to your question. I think it's just that you care not to learn it. You rather be able to get away with your belief without further investigating the issue. Then make smug judgments about others' when you don't even know them. That's prejudice (to make false prejudgments).

Anyhow, it is your choice and we'll all be held responsible for the choices we make. I know you agree with that at least. I wanted to share one more thing that may just help you. I know you're probably wondering what is that technique for a man to prove the existence of God to himself? -Yeah, I bet you're wondering. I couldn't give you the technique for I'm not qualified to teach you. But a Master could.

They say prayer is when we talk to God. They also say meditation is when we listen. Meditation is said to be the highest form of prayer. The only direction I can point you in would be to find a book by the name of The Path of the Masters -Dr. Julian P. Johnson. Then start your search from there. If you truly wish to prove it for yourself and gain some 'positive knowledge' on the subject, this would be the first step.

P.S.

You said that you believe in the possibility of One God. That's very good, and what most Atheists don't even know is that God would rather that they wanted proof of His existence than just blind faith. It's so funny, because if they were willing to prove His existence to themselves then they would be more apt to following and remembering His Real Commands. And there is a way, no it's not easy -unless maybe you can see it that way. It's also scientific to a Tee, search for that book if your mind really seeks proof. Then you may mark a starting point for your grand experiment.
I'm not going to continue this argument, there is simply no progression. You still fail to understand the basic concept on which we are trying to argue around.

All of what you are talking about is your opinion, claiming YOU know the answers - and then you try and tell me that that is objective morality. It is absurd.
 
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  #30  
Old 12-01-2008, 09:58 AM
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I'm not going to continue this argument, there is simply no progression. You still fail to understand the basic concept on which we are trying to argue around.

All of what you are talking about is your opinion, claiming YOU know the answers - and then you try and tell me that that is objective morality. It is absurd.
I figured you wouldn't be serious to further your studies on religion. To learn something in science, first you must conduct the experiment -right? Then after (and only after) you've conducted that experiment you can say if the experiment was a success or a failure -am I incorrect? But without conducting the actual experiment you wouldn't have the foggiest -now would you?

Well, looks like I've won this argument by default? Wow I'm not sure why you would default your position, but you can do that if you wish. Thank you for letting me win! Pretty noble on your part, not too many people can do that gracefully. I must commend you.

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Christianity Is RACIST
You know xentech, there are billions of people on this earth and many of them are Christian. You or I could not possibly know them all to say that every one of them who's a Christian (or any other religion) is a racist, terrorist or practices racism. Some of them may too follow the hight of all religions. I guess you just have to think positive about them, and not be so negative. Then possibly, one day you may meet them.
 
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  #31  
Old 12-01-2008, 11:49 AM
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I figured you wouldn't be serious to further your studies on religion. To learn something in science, first you must conduct the experiment -right? Then after (and only after) you've conducted that experiment you can say if the experiment was a success or a failure -am I incorrect? But without conducting the actual experiment you wouldn't have the foggiest -now would you?

Well, looks like I've won this argument by default? Wow I'm not sure why you would default your position, but you can do that if you wish. Thank you for letting me win! Pretty noble on your part, not too many people can do that gracefully. I must commend you.
Meh, I'd rather do that then argue back and forth endlessly with someone who can't even understand what they are arguing about.

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You know xentech, there are billions of people on this earth and many of them are Christian. You or I could not possibly know them all to say that every one of them who's a Christian (or any other religion) is a racist, terrorist or practices racism. Some of them may too follow the hight of all religions. I guess you just have to think positive about them, and not be so negative. Then possibly, one day you may meet them.
Like I said before, that was a joke. Of course Christians aren't generally racist, I just used it to emphasize my point.
 
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  #32  
Old 12-01-2008, 11:28 PM
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Meh, I'd rather do that then argue back and forth endlessly with someone who can't even understand what they are arguing about.



Like I said before, that was a joke. Of course Christians aren't generally racist, I just used it to emphasize my point.
My point was clear, as for you just joking around looks like you weren't really serious in anything you said. Nice joke, but too bad nothing was learned here. Just another silly ha ha. Well I still win the debate here, and it seems you can't even lose it gracefully -so then why let me win? I could really be rubbing this in you know.

It all must just be some weird joke to you -huh? Religion. I guess you were just in it for some fun conversation. But when put to the real test you run, but that's what 'boys' do on the battlefield -don't they son?

Carry on, have fun.
 
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  #33  
Old 12-02-2008, 02:43 AM
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My point was clear, as for you just joking around looks like you weren't really serious in anything you said. Nice joke, but too bad nothing was learned here. Just another silly ha ha. Well I still win the debate here, and it seems you can't even lose it gracefully -so then why let me win? I could really be rubbing this in you know.

It all must just be some weird joke to you -huh? Religion. I guess you were just in it for some fun conversation. But when put to the real test you run, but that's what 'boys' do on the battlefield -don't they son?

Carry on, have fun.
Half of the things you say don't even make sense, how can I argue against you when the things you say don't even make sense? Like I said there will be no progression in this argument because you can't even grasp simple concepts, why would I waste time arguing with you?

The racist part was a joke but my point still stands regardless of that part, that was just to help make the point. When you reply to my thread with a decent and intelligent argument then I may continue this discussion, but so far you have failed to do that.

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But when put to the real test you run, but that's what 'boys' do on the battlefield -don't they son?
Dude wake up, this is the internet.
 
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  #34  
Old 12-02-2008, 04:32 AM
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I thought of this quite awhile ago. I am online using Christianity as an example, this applies to almost all religions.

If you are a Christian that means you believe that people who are not Christians are going to hell. Well, you have to accept that it is only by sheer CHANCE that you were born in a western culture whereby Christianity is the main religion.

That means you also have to accept that by chance you could have been born in Iraq, and would therefore be a Muslim. According to Christianity this means you would go to hell, end of, no questions asked!

A Christian may argue "everyone has equal opportunity to discover the true God". Well no, they don't actually. People born in Muslim countries are generally indoctrinated from age 1 to believe in Allah. They have NO choice in the matter. They are not allowed to be a non Muslim, plain and simple.

So according to Christianity, by the sheer chance that they were born in a non-western country that means they are going to hell.

I also think that this is quite a good example of why religions are absolute BS. Most people only believe in *for example* Christianity because their parents do, so they must also accept that if they were born into a non Christian family and are unlikely to be Christian in that scenario that they would be GOING TO HELL. This goes against the very nature of their religion.

Either God is picking and choosing the people who go to hell or the world is damned unfair place.

Discuss.
Good point.

I think that humans only taint the idea of belief through their attempts to define it.
 
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:01 AM
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I love God and all people too Becouse God says I'm every people so measn love ot man elove to God
 
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  #36  
Old 12-02-2008, 01:18 PM
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Well, I'm not a religious man .... but there was a girl in philadelphia that made me say Jesus Christ 3 times
 
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
Half of the things you say don't even make sense, how can I argue against you when the things you say don't even make sense? Like I said there will be no progression in this argument because you can't even grasp simple concepts, why would I waste time arguing with you?

The racist part was a joke but my point still stands regardless of that part, that was just to help make the point. When you reply to my thread with a decent and intelligent argument then I may continue this discussion, but so far you have failed to do that.
Oh, so now you concede your loss. Can't make up your mind can you? It seems that you still care to argue. So why even address me now, having already said you defaulted this debate? (or just let me win) Now will you change your statements again? Just digging a deeper hole I see. Trying to save face -huh? And I let you off so easy too.

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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
Dude wake up, this is the internet.
Yes this is the Internet, but your thread WAS on religion -wasn't it? Which you seem to know nothing about. Religion is not something you just talk about, it's a way of life -something you must live to really understand it. Which I see, you don't even care to try. That's the actual reason why you defaulted the debate, because you have no real actual experience behind your words. Don't just talk about someone else's religion when you haven't lived it a day in your life. Your words will never make a good point, or become a good argument, or even hold a drop of tap water.

I hate to say it, and I know it sounds mean but if you haven't lived it then you surely don't know it -son. (I'm talking about RELIGION if that didn't make any sense to you either -I hope it did because that would just be ridiculous)

But I must say, you are a funny guy. Very entertaining, I had a few chuckles myself.
 
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  #38  
Old 12-03-2008, 02:56 AM
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xentech xentech is offline
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
Oh, so now you concede your loss. Can't make up your mind can you? It seems that you still care to argue. So why even address me now, having already said you defaulted this debate? (or just let me win) Now will you change your statements again? Just digging a deeper hole I see. Trying to save face -huh? And I let you off so easy too.



Yes this is the Internet, but your thread WAS on religion -wasn't it? Which you seem to know nothing about. Religion is not something you just talk about, it's a way of life -something you must live to really understand it. Which I see, you don't even care to try. That's the actual reason why you defaulted the debate, because you have no real actual experience behind your words. Don't just talk about someone else's religion when you haven't lived it a day in your life. Your words will never make a good point, or become a good argument, or even hold a drop of tap water.

I hate to say it, and I know it sounds mean but if you haven't lived it then you surely don't know it -son. (I'm talking about RELIGION if that didn't make any sense to you either -I hope it did because that would just be ridiculous)

But I must say, you are a funny guy. Very entertaining, I had a few chuckles myself.
"It seems that you still care to argue."

What are you talking about? My last couple of posts have been telling you that I don't wish to continue with this argument, why do YOU continue to try and argue with me? Call me a pussy all you want I don't care, it is you who is being immature and won't give it up.
 
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  #39  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by xentech View Post
If you're relationship with God is personal and everyone has a different relationship with him, then why do you need religion?

Religion is only set as our guide and rules but religion can't control us whatever our relationship with God. Our relationship with God or whatever you might or comfortable calling Him is like Spirituality, it is about your heart and soul, and your personal communion with God.
 
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Old 12-03-2008, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Dina312 View Post
Religion is only set as our guide and rules but religion can't control us whatever our relationship with God. Our relationship with God or whatever you might or comfortable calling Him is like Spirituality, it is about your heart and soul, and your personal communion with God.
Oh believe me, religion has done an amazing job of controlling people over the years. You think people aren't controlled by religion? Go and tell that to terrorists or the KKK.
 
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