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  #961 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2010, 07:26 PM
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Let's try again.

The "feeling" and the "belief" are one and the same. Therefore, to say that the "feeling" is the reason for the "belief" is circular reasoning, a tautology.

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  #962 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2010, 02:37 AM
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The example that I used in the section Cricket quotes is one of the reasons that my friends believe. I did say one. They see certain actions as indicating that their belief is justified. But such actions, unexplained by science may or may not have another rational explanation. Not everyone by any manner or means will have such things happen to them.

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Imagine that you were reared by automatons, isolated from other humans, and given access to all current human knowledge, but with no references to religious or spiritual beliefs. Would you independently come to conclude that their must be a God? If so, how would such occur?
Tell about any society that has not developed some search for a higher power, there does seem to be an innate instinct in the human race to want to find such a being. It is always interesting that in times of crisis many/most people do try turning to God. Witness how few funerals are not religious based, or those who in a moments desperation ask God to help. Often religious questioning comes out of asking 'why am I here?', 'for what purpose' or 'what made this creation with all its wonders? Was it accidental or does there seem to be a plan? If planned does the being that planned all this have any consciousness of other thinking beings?'. How one answers those questions can start belief and starting from belief can come a realisation that some religious paths relate to that individual a feeling that this higher power is a caring, loving being.

But starts with how one views some basic issues and I think human beings search for the source of the universe and some search for a religious understanding of life.

I believe because my understanding of God focuses life and ticks many of the boxes.

But we have been reminded that the thread is about Why YOU believe, not does God exist. I would suggest that if you wish to continue debating if God exists or not that you start a new thread.
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  #963 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2010, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsand View Post

The "feeling" and the "belief" are one and the same.
Sensory data and our cognitive interpretation of sensory data are not the same, obviously.

As far as I can see, the most compelling reason for believing in a God is the unlikelihood of the Big Bang occurring in such a way as to create the universe as we see it.

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Roger Penrose, a famous British mathematician and a close friend of Stephen Hawking, wondered about this question and tried to calculate the probability. Including what he considered to be all variables required for human beings to exist and live on a planet such as ours, he computed the probability of this environment occurring among all the possible results of the Big Bang.
http://www.creationofuniverse.com/ht...librium03.html
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  #964 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
Sensory data and our cognitive interpretation of sensory data are not the same, obviously.
What evidence is there that such feelings arise from sensory data?

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  #965 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:34 PM
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Tell about any society that has not developed some search for a higher power, there does seem to be an innate instinct in the human race to want to find such a being.
Well, for example, how about the many Native American beliefs that exclude a God?

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It is always interesting that in times of crisis many/most people do try turning to God. Witness how few funerals are not religious based, or those who in a moments desperation ask God to help.
That would be effect, rather than cause.

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But we have been reminded that the thread is about Why YOU believe, not does God exist. I would suggest that if you wish to continue debating if God exists or not that you start a new thread.
I have kept well within the issue of "why" such beliefs are held.

And, I again submit that such owes, not to any individually acquired evidence to support such belief, but simply to having been taught to believe such.

Have you an answer to the question I posed, here repeated?

Quote:
Imagine that you were reared by automatons, isolated from other humans, and given access to all current human knowledge, but with no references to religious or spiritual beliefs. Would you independently come to conclude that there must be a God? If so, how would such occur?
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  #966 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:51 PM
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Well, for example, how about the many Native American beliefs that exclude a God?
Great Spirit?
 
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  #967 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2010, 02:32 PM
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Only for some!

American Indian Spirituality

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  #968 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2010, 04:06 PM
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Old 04-14-2010, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by deepsand View Post
Well, for example, how about the many Native American beliefs that exclude a God?
As Cricket poiint out and you agree some hold religious beliefs. Let's say you point to the majority of the human race who have not sought some belief in a higher power, now that might be a good arguement to deny that people have a natural search.



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I have kept well within the issue of "why" such beliefs are held.

And, I again submit that such owes, not to any individually acquired evidence to support such belief, but simply to having been taught to believe such.
Those two sentences are in serious conflict and is not the spirit of this thread which is 'Why do YOU believe' not why should someone else, or what is the basis of someone elses belief. Why do YOU believe?



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  #970 (permalink)  
Old 04-14-2010, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymously View Post
Let's say you point to the majority of the human race who have not sought some belief in a higher power, now that might be a good arguement to deny that people have a natural search.
As you yourself pointed out, it was once the majority belief of Western civilizations that Earth was flat; and, I would add, that it was the center of the Universe, a point pressed hard home by Clerics!

Facts are not determined by majority belief.

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Those two sentences are in serious conflict and is not the spirit of this thread which is 'Why do YOU believe' not why should someone else, or what is the basis of someone elses belief. Why do YOU believe?
Conflict? What conflict?

To opine as to why a particular belief is held is not valid? If not, what, then is the purpose of asking the question in the first place? Mere idle curiosity, with only the OP afforded the right to enquire?

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Last edited by deepsand; 04-14-2010 at 04:56 PM.
 
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