"Persecuting Christians again!"......in Texas...

[Atom]

Originally Posted by Muddy

I'm tellin' ya Atom, eyesight...it's the second thing to go. Here it is.

Thanks, Muddy.


This Politics forum needs a rule: No Anonymous Quotes.

[Atom]

And before y'all get all excited, yes, I know I posted one a few posts back, but it wasn't of a forum member and I'm talking about quotes by other forum members.

[Ferre]

I should have known that when I was still working in a lab, I could have just mixed all chemicals randomly and let god do the work, just a little prayer for the right results would have saved me years of calculations and research.

[Ferre]

Maybe Gio it's a good idea to just cancel science classes and replace them with bible classes, that way children have a much better start in life and more exact scientific knowledge.

Maybe we should also just ban non biblical knowledge altogether, it only confuses people and make them have blasphemous thoughts.

[G10]

All along I have said that both sides need to be brought forward Ferre and no, I do not want to cancel science classes as it plays a very big part in life and I will never dispute that.

Believe it or not I have been open to different methods, be it creation or evolution, yours brought you to evolution and mine brought me to creation.

Yours brought you to tarnish all of the creationists with the same brush, mine brought me to understand that there are some creationists/scientists in either field with their own agenda but not to do this.

Originally Posted by Ferre

And btw Gio, I ask people questions about the Bible all the time, it's amazing how many personal interpretations there are for the same scriptures. In fact I did not only read the Bible, but have also a couple of different books explaining how to interpretate the bible in different manners, apparently there's much "controversy" in the different brands of the judeo christian teachings on what is actually written in there.
Apparently there's much more controversy amongst religious folks on how to read the bible than there's controversy in the science world about the theory of evolution.

I gave you an example of what a specific scripture said when I helped you understand it on how not all sin can be forgiven and you come at me with generalities and how maybe it could be interpreted differently.

Here it is, just in case - Matthew 12:31-32 - (interpret away)

btw Ferre, I expect better from you and an apology from you for calling me a liar when I said earlier that if I was wrong on you reading the bible and you had then I took my words back.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by G10

btw Ferre, I expect better from you and an apology from you for calling me a liar when I said earlier that if I was wrong on you reading the bible and you had then I took my words back.

I will Gio, the second after I have accepted the apology from you for constantly using logical fallacies, strawman arguments and other dishonest debate techniques, not to mention your blatant attempt at character assasination you displayed a couple of times the past few days.

And I am still waiting for ONE SINGLE creationist claim which passed the scientific method and received acception in he science curriculem.

The point is Gio that science class is for SCIENCE, I'm pretty sure that teachers all over the world will teach "creation science" in class as soon as there is one little schred of evidence.

Untill that day, let's keep teaching our children science ok? There is no such thing as a "controversy" about evolution in the science world, the only controversy are claims from creationists which have been proven to be baseless every single time.

Be patient, and STUDY, maybe one day one of you guys' creation claims does not fail the tests required from real science and then it will automatically be tought in schools. Untill then, as I said before, don't blame science for your own ignorance.

[G10]

Originally Posted by Ferre

I will Gio, the second after I have accepted the apology from you for constantly using logical fallacies, strawman arguments and other dishonest debate techniques, not to mention your blatant attempt at character assasination you displayed a couple of times the past few days.

And I am still waiting for ONE SINGLE creationist claim which passed the scientific method and received acception in he science curriculem.

The point is Gio that science class is for SCIENCE, I'm pretty sure that teachers all over the world will teach "creation science" in class as soon as there is one little schred of evidence.

Untill that day, let's keep teaching our children science ok? There is no such thing as a "controversy" about evolution in the science world, the only controversy are claims from creationists which have been proven to be baseless every single time.

Be patient, and STUDY, maybe one day one of you guys' creation claims does not fail the tests required from real science and then it will automatically be tought in schools. Untill then, as I said before, don't blame science for your own ignorance.

Character assasination?... Hang on, who gave you the warnings for your contempt towards others understandings and beliefs, it wasn't me

I personally believe that creation and science can work well together and not what a lot of other creationists believe and that is that they are completely seperate.

As for science constantly proving byblical 'myths' wrong - Here we have the bible helping science out towards history and being proven right. This and so many more reasons are why I say that they can also work together.

Creationists work by whatever teaching they wish to follow and mine lead me to reading and understanding (or doing my best to) the bible, so here only two creationists claims

The destruction of the ancient city of Jericho, located on the west side of the great Rift Valley is mentioned in Joshua 6:20, 24, showing the miraculous fall of the walls of Jericho and that city’s overthrow by the Hebrews under Joshua.

When no archaeological confirmation of the Bible’s account was available, the truthfulness of it was glibly disputed. This is no longer possible.

Archaeology confirms the Bible account of the destruction of the city. Excavations began at Jericho in 1930. Excavators found that the double walls surrounding the city had fallen down the slope as if toppled by an earthquake or some other unseen force. Houses had been built on rafters that bridged the tops of the two walls and in one section part of the wall stood and could have been where Rahab’s house had been preserved in the Biblical catastrophe.

The excavators found evidence of intense fire. The city had been burned. This was no ordinary burning, because the layer of ashes was unusually thick and it appeared that all available fuel had been gathered to accomplish a thorough destruction.

The city had not been looted, neither had there been any substantial rebuilding of the city until hundreds of years thereafter, about the time of King Ahab, when the Bible tells us that it was rebuilt.

Today you can go to the Rift Valley, to the site of the excavations of the ruins of that ancient city of Jericho and see this archaeological support of the Bible account.

Pontius Pilate figured in the ministry of Jesus, as that ministry drew to a close, and quite recently Caesarea on the coastal plain contributed a valuable archaeological find in respect to Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor of Jerusalem in the time of Christ Jesus.

Pilate was known only by the record concerning him in the Bible and the writings of ancient historians, particularly Josephus, but archaeological evidence concerning him has been unknown.

However, in 1961 an Italian archaeological expedition from the University of Milan found near Caesarea a stone slab thirty-one by twenty-three inches in size bearing writings including the Latin names of Pontius Pilate and Tiberius.

This is archaeological proof of Pilate’s existence.

btw Ferre, you know me by know and know that I am always willing to read and learn new things and am always happy to read the information you list as I still feel that it is any creationists duty to see both sides of coin. I am aware that a lot don't but I am not one of them and is why I asked you not to tarnish them all with the same brush.

Originally Posted by Ferre

Untill that day, let's keep teaching our children science ok? There is no such thing as a "controversy" about evolution in the science world, the only controversy are claims from creationists which have been proven to be baseless every single time.

The scientific magazine Discover put the situation this way: "Evolution . . . is not only under attack by fundamentalist Christians, but is also being questioned by reputable scientists. Among paleontologists, scientists who study the fossil record, there is growing dissent from the prevailing view of Darwinism."

Francis Hitching, an evolutionist and author of the book The Neck of the Giraffe, stated: "For all its acceptance in the scientific world as the great unifying principle of biology, Darwinism, after a century and a quarter, is in a surprising amount of trouble."

After an important conference of some 150 specialists in evolution held in Chicago, Illinois, a report concluded: "[Evolution] is undergoing its broadest and deepest revolution in nearly 50 years. . . . Exactly how evolution happened is now a matter of great controversy among biologists. . . . No clear resolution of the controversies was in sight."

Paleontologist Niles Eldredge, a prominent evolutionist, said: "The doubt that has infiltrated the previous, smugly confident certitude of evolutionary biology’s last twenty years has inflamed passions." He spoke of the "lack of total agreement even within the warring camps," and added, "things really are in an uproar these days . . . Sometimes it seems as though there are as many variations on each [evolutionary] theme as there are individual biologists."

I am sure you can find the links if you want them.

I am still open to reading more on the scientific evolutionary subject though and always have been.

I do agree when you say that science class is for science and it seems like information within certain book has been helping science also, that is why I say that they can work together.

[Muddy]

Whew! Thank god (errr, or something) you guys are still at it! For a moment last night, I thought the thrill was gone!

[Muddy]

I'd just like to say Ferre, that considering it's your second language, your English is really quite excellent.

[Muddy]

Well, what was that film? I might have to tab on over to Netflix...

[Cricket]

Reminder to all members:

While I truly believe in the right to free speech, here at the V7N we expect our members to exercise that right in a respectful manner. We absolutely, positively, will not tolerate responding to members with apposing viewpoints in a ridiculing condescending manner. My patience has run its course in regards to reminding members of this policy. If needed, I will begin removing posting privileges in the politics forums to those members disregarding this simple request for respect for all members.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by Cricket

Reminder to all members:

While I truly believe in the right to free speech, here at the V7N we expect our members to exercise that right in a respectful manner. We absolutely, positively, will not tolerate responding to members with apposing viewpoints in a ridiculing condescending manner. My patience has run its course in regards to reminding members of this policy. If needed, I will begin removing posting privileges in the politics forums to those members disregarding this simple request for respect for all members.

May I remind you that this topic is about the subject of TEACHING CREATIONISME IN SCIENCE CLASS.

May I also remind you that in general culture it is appropriate to ridicule and expose liars and frauds.

This is NOT a religion topic dear Cricket, this is a science topic and as long as frauds use lies and deceit disguised as "science facts" to push their agenda, every time they get exposed they WILL also receive some ridicule, like everywhere else in the real wold.

Please keep it REAL Cricket, or are you telling me to show respect for proven liars and fauds? Is that the case Cricket? Do you demand respect for liars and frauds?

When you read this whole topic back you will find that I exposed (with sources) EVERY SINGLE creationist "argument" as a deliberate lie.

..and you demand respect????

What about asking the liars and frauds to have some respect for science and truth eh?

BTW, can you explain to me why creationists use lies and deceit by default to "prove" their arguments?

Can you tell me why you have no problem with that but do get upset when those frauds are exposed in a cinical manner?

You say that "your patience has run its course in regards to reminding members of this policy."

Well. you might understand now that the patience of the academic world has run its course in regard to the fraud, lies and deceit provided by the creationist movement and the academic world has also run its patience out of course in regards of having to correct those scammers all the time and expose their deceit.

[Ferre]

BTW Cricket, this is not a "new" conflict. Everywhere on the internet and in science magazines you will find this discussion going on for years already, and the condescending manner in which frauds are appraoched is very general and rightfully so.


May I also remind you to this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10545387/

A six-week trial over the issue yielded “overwhelming evidence” establishing that intelligent design “is a religious view, a mere re-labeling of creationism, and not a scientific theory,” said Jones, a Republican and a churchgoer appointed to the federal bench three years ago.

It is NOT a scientific theory Cricket, and people who still go on lying and deceiving to "prove" otherwise do not deserve respect, they deserve to be (symbolically) driven out of town dressed in tar and feathers, like all other frauds.

Asking to have respect for that sort of dishonesty and not ridicule it is like asking to have respect and not ridicule Charles Dawson and his Piltdown man. It just makes no sense.

[blazintech]

I think its better to give children options on what to believe in.

[Cricket]

I am NOT a part of the debate Ferre and I REFUSE to allow you to drag me into it. You may debate the TOPIC all you want. You may NOT do so in a manner that disrespects the members of this forum.

[Ferre]

Originally Posted by Cricket

I am NOT a part of the debate Ferre and I REFUSE to allow you to drag me into it. You may debate the TOPIC all you want. You may NOT do so in a manner that disrespects the members of this forum.

That's ok, but do not ask me to show respect to intellectual frauds and liars, that just makes no sense.

[LeeD]

Originally Posted by Ferre

That's ok, but do not ask me to show respect to intellectual frauds and liars, that just makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Ferre

May I remind you that this topic is about the subject of TEACHING CREATIONISME IN SCIENCE CLASS.

May I also remind you that in general culture it is appropriate to ridicule and expose liars and frauds.

This is NOT a religion topic dear Cricket, this is a science topic and as long as frauds use lies and deceit disguised as "science facts" to push their agenda, every time they get exposed they WILL also receive some ridicule, like everywhere else in the real wold.

Please keep it REAL Cricket, or are you telling me to show respect for proven liars and fauds? Is that the case Cricket? Do you demand respect for liars and frauds?

When you read this whole topic back you will find that I exposed (with sources) EVERY SINGLE creationist "argument" as a deliberate lie.

..and you demand respect????

Ferre,

I figured this was a good opportunity for me to chime in with my thoughts on your methods of reasoning in this thread. Since you are operating on my turf, then regardless of what you feel is right or wrong, you are agreeing to abide by my rules. When my senior staff member, Cricket, says that you must communicate in a respectful manner to the other members of this forum, she means it. Regardless of who you think are frauds and liars, you will be respectful or you will be gone. It was with great caution that I allowed your account to be unlocked months ago. Do not jeopardize your current status by refusing to follow my rules.

Final warning.

[LinkPopularity]

don't worry, the essence of evolution is that the creationist will get extinct sooner or later anyway ...

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by LinkPopularity

don't worry, the essence of evolution is that the creationist will get extinct sooner or later anyway ...

Doesn't look that way. Even in highly nontheistic societies, there is still a strong belief in an intelligent creator.

[kristeejo]

figured i could come to this thread to see why ferre is no longer with us...i was right. ; )

may his little atheist soul rest in peace.