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  #21  
Old 01-29-2009, 09:54 AM
herman333 herman333 is offline
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It would be wiser to apologize and make peace.
 

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  #22  
Old 01-29-2009, 10:51 AM
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while I was opposed to a general vague apology ( thinking actions speak louder than words anyway ), today I find the request for an apology by Iran is more specific than at first reported

Quote:
Iran Calls for US Apology for 1953 Coup, Jetliner Attack

The news comes as Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Iran would be open to talks with the US if it apologized for past actions. Ahmadinejad called on the White House to apologize for the US-backed coup that overthrew Iran’s nationalist government in 1953 and the shooting down of an Iranian passenger plane in 1988. reported @DemocracyNow.org
This, I think, is something that can be easily done.
 
  #23  
Old 01-29-2009, 11:50 AM
bobby_valentino bobby_valentino is offline
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I think he should put his pride aside adn just apologize for what the carter administration did to the nation of iran, adn all the shady stuff they did.

why not start a new era of world peace.
 
  #24  
Old 01-29-2009, 11:54 AM
pgzn pgzn is offline
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Because Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism, and the only policy that works is regime change. http://www.state.gov/s/ct/c14151.htm

Europe has been attempting to negotiate with Iran since about 2003. How far along are they?
 
  #25  
Old 01-29-2009, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby_valentino View Post
I think he should put his pride aside adn just apologize for what the carter administration did to the nation of iran, adn all the shady stuff they did.

why not start a new era of world peace.
What exactly is it you think the Carter administration did to Iran?
 
  #26  
Old 01-29-2009, 01:55 PM
WhatsLeft WhatsLeft is offline
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Obama has promised to bring the change we need. In this instance, on considering initiating talks with Iran, it appears he might be taking a lesson in history. Joseph Kennedy (father of John and Robert) was ambassador to the UK just before World War II, and a good friend and confidant of Neville Chamberlain, the prime minister. Chamberlain wanted to appease Hitler, to just have talks with him, to keep peace at any cost. Kennedy also wanted talks with Hitler and appeasement.

Could it be that Obama has studied WWII and wondered what if Kennedy just had had the chance of talking with Hitler?? -- how might war have been averted then and how might the Jews have been saved?? Maybe, Obama is just thinking like a Kennedy, and that is the change we need.

Last edited by WhatsLeft; 01-29-2009 at 01:58 PM. Reason: I only got a "c" in spelling
 
  #27  
Old 01-29-2009, 05:18 PM
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I just read an article in the Jerusalem Post concerning the talks Obama wants to initiate with Iran. The Post reports that Obama has been working on a letter to Iran to start the talks since November. In the letter, Obama notes that if Iran changes its stance on foreign policy, it will lead to a better economic standard of living for all Iranians. That's a smart point.

A representative for Iran has told the Post that there can only be talks if the USA meets "preconditions," of withdrawing all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. And Ahmadinejad has emphasized that the USA should withdraw all its troops from all parts of the world.

Of course, Obama has always said he wants to take the troops out of Iraq as fast as he can. But that still leaves Afghanistan...

So now the question is --
Should Obama agree to take all US troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan in order to be able to apologize to the Iranians for our criminal behavior? What is the smart response? Hillary must know.

Last edited by WhatsLeft; 01-29-2009 at 05:19 PM. Reason: I got a "D" in typing
 
  #28  
Old 01-29-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgzn View Post
Because Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism, and the only policy that works is regime change. http://www.state.gov/s/ct/c14151.htm
And in what way does this stop us from apologizing for covertly overthrowing
their elected government in 1953 to install someone friendly to US oil interests
or from apologizing for accidentally shooting down a commercial airliner with
over 200 innocent people aboard 1988?

Last edited by rabble; 01-29-2009 at 05:29 PM.
 
  #29  
Old 01-29-2009, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabble View Post
And in what way does this stop us from apologizing for covertly overthrowing
their elected government in 1953 to install someone friendly to US oil interests
or from apologizing for accidentally shooting down a commercial airliner with
over 200 innocent people aboard 1988?
It didn't. Check your history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Ir...'%C3%A9tat

Quote:
In the U.S., Operation Ajax was originally viewed as a triumph of covert action, but in 2000 Madeleine Albright, Secretary of State to President Bill Clinton, made an apology to the people of Iran[6], calling the coup an "intervention by America" in Iranian "internal affairs" and a "setback for democratic government" in Iran.
Also, being a state sponsor of terror Iran does not have regard for human life, and deserves no apology. What they deserve is regime change.

Ahmadinejad's World

The deployment of the Basiji in the mine fields shows what one can expect from the Mullah-Regime · By Matthias Küntzel

In pondering the behavior of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, I cannot help but think of the 500,000 plastic keys that Iran imported from Taiwan during the Iran-Iraq War of 1980-88. At the time, an Iranian law laid down that children as young as 12 could be used to clear mine fields, even against the objections of their parents. Before every mission, a small plastic key would be hung around each of the children’s necks. It was supposed to open for them the gates to paradise.


“In the past,” wrote the semi-official Iranian daily Ettela’at, “we had child-volunteers: 14-, 15-, and 16-year-olds. They went into the mine fields. Their eyes saw nothing. Their ears heard nothing. And then, a few moments later, one saw clouds of dust. When the dust had settled again, there was nothing more to be seen of them. Somewhere, widely scattered in the landscape, there lay scraps of burnt flesh and pieces of bone.” Such scenes could henceforth be avoided, Ettela’at assured its readers. “Before entering the mine fields, the children [now] wrap themselves in blankets and they roll on the ground, so that their body parts stay together after the explosion of the mines and one can carry them to the graves.”[1]

The children who thus rolled to their deaths formed part of the mass “Basij” movement that was called into being by the Ayatollah Khomeini in 1979. The Basij Mostazafan – the “mobilization of the oppressed” – consisted of short-term volunteer militias. Most of the Basij members were not yet 18. They went enthusiastically and by the thousands to their own destruction. “The young men cleared the mines with their own bodies,” a veteran of the Iran-Iraq War has recalled, “It was sometimes like a race. Even without the commander’s orders, everyone wanted to be first.”[2]
more....

Last edited by pgzn; 01-29-2009 at 05:58 PM.
 
  #30  
Old 01-29-2009, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Also, being a state sponsor of terror Iran does not have regard for human life, and deserves no apology. What they deserve is regime change.
There's that word being thrown around again....the question is how would you propose that to happen....?
 
  #31  
Old 01-29-2009, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Obama has promised to bring the change we need. In this instance, on considering initiating talks with Iran, it appears he might be taking a lesson in history. Joseph Kennedy (father of John and Robert) was ambassador to the UK just before World War II, and a good friend and confidant of Neville Chamberlain, the prime minister. Chamberlain wanted to appease Hitler, to just have talks with him, to keep peace at any cost. Kennedy also wanted talks with Hitler and appeasement.
Do you even know what appeasement means?
 
  #32  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FocalPoint View Post
Do you even know what appeasement means?
Are you trying to make a point or to attack me at a personal level? If the latter, is that because you believe Obama really is smarter than he appears in this instance. Well, he has plenty of time to prove that... maybe, his stimulus plan is smarter.

The Republicans want the plan to focus on tax cuts, but Obama wants the stimulus to have more government spending. I heard one review of his plan that notes part of the government spending will be for sex education. Do you think that spending money to improve people's sex lives will help return our country to prosperity? Is that a smart way to do it?

I happen to believe Obama actually is very smart... indeed, very smart. But is intelligence enough? Some politicians in history who were very smart failed, because they built intelligent thinking on top of delusions. Hitler was such an example, although at first he really did look like a messiah.
 
  #33  
Old 01-30-2009, 07:01 AM
pgzn pgzn is offline
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If Obama is so smart why is he a democrat? Did he never once wonder why tax cuts and spending cuts historically are always good for the economy, and tax hikes and welfare are always bad for the economy?

No, he's not smart, he's a democrat.
 
  #34  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgzn View Post
If Obama is so smart why is he a democrat?
But Obama wants to usher in a whole new age of bi-partisan politics. Already he has met with Republican congressional leaders to point out that listening to Rush Limbaugh will not get things done for our nation. Don't you believe that citing this particular mistake by Republicans will help Congress become bi-partisan? If the Republicans stop listening to Rush, wouldn't that cause the Congress to become a more organized community?

But let's give Barack sufficient time. He's only been in office about a week so far.
 
  #35  
Old 01-30-2009, 09:01 AM
pgzn pgzn is offline
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If he was smart he would be encouraging his democrat counterparts to listen to Rush Limbaugh. Not asking republicans to ignore Limbaugh. But he isn't smart. Little reported in the news is that the republican plan was ran through the exact same software designed by Obama's economic "czar". Their plan costs half as much and creates twice as many jobs according to his own software program that he's touting to shore up the doomed "stimulus package" put forth by his party.

On being bi-partisan, anyone with any insight at all can tell its all show. He's trying to rush through all the failed programs they couldn't push through in the last 40 years. He could care less if it kills the economy. As a matter of fact, that's most likely their plan. After the disaster democrats created in the home mortgage crisis, one can only conclude that purposely destroying the economy is their ultimate goal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPSDnGMzIdo

Last edited by pgzn; 01-30-2009 at 09:14 AM.
 
  #36  
Old 01-30-2009, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgzn View Post
If Obama is so smart why is he a democrat? Did he never once wonder why tax cuts and spending cuts historically are always good for the economy, and tax hikes and welfare are always bad for the economy?

No, he's not smart, he's a democrat.
Obama is an idealist. Most idealist are smart ones, but sometimes they don't make use of their intelligence because they are so obsessed with their ideals.
 
  #37  
Old 01-31-2009, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgzn View Post
Their plan costs half as much and creates twice as many jobs
The democratic plan does what it needs to do.
It lays down a safety net for the losers in this economic fiasco.

It raises and extends unemployment benefits. It puts money into alternative energy. It raises food stamps. It extends medical coverage. It funds badly needed infrastructure repairs. It raises money for education. It props up the state's shortfall from tax revenues to prevent massive layoffs in the public sector. It lowers taxes on middle and lower class families and raises the earned income credit. All laudable.

The republican plan is mainly just more supply side economics.
Pushing money to business will not create jobs because face it,
product is not what we lack. It's money to buy product that is missing.

If republicans wanna help business so much why don't they suggest single payer health care?
That's something I think democrats might wrap their arms around.

And, as for blaming the mortgage crisis on the democrats, the republicans had the vote to ram through everything they wanted from 1994 to 2006, the only thing blocking them until 2000 was the threat of
a presidential veto. During none of that time did they do anything to stop this mess. So ...
take you and your Faux News misrepresentation elsewhere.

It is you republicans and a cadre of boll-weevel and paid off democrats ( of which Bill Clinton was one ) who brought us this fiasco. The American people have voted. Get over it.

Unless the republicans begin to work constructively rather than obstructively ... it's gonna be even lonelier for republicans in Congress in 2010. Mark my words. You guys are acting lke a bunch of lemmings and the sea is not far ahead.

Last edited by rabble; 01-31-2009 at 04:42 AM.
 
  #38  
Old 01-31-2009, 06:17 AM
pgzn pgzn is offline
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Quote:
If republicans wanna help business so much why don't they suggest single payer health care?
"Single payer health care" is health care rationing, at ten times the price. No one wins.

The better solution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf3MtjMBWx4

Quote:
It raises and extends unemployment benefits. It puts money into alternative energy. It raises food stamps. It extends medical coverage. It funds badly needed infrastructure repairs. It raises money for education. It props up the state's shortfall from tax revenues to prevent massive layoffs in the public sector. It lowers taxes on middle and lower class families and raises the earned income credit. All laudable.
Sounds like a desription of every major cesspool city in the US that has been a democrat stranglehold the past 50 years. More proof that socialism doesn't work. For an example of their policies, and the 50 year result look to Detroit, LA, DC....

Quote:
And, as for blaming the mortgage crisis on the democrats,
It's well documented who caused this problem and who tried to prevent it. While they were trying to prevent it, they of course were being accused of hating the poor. The oldest trick in the democrat socialist playbook. And non thinking American sheep follow right along because they're too lazy, or too uneducated to think things through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_...eature=related

Last edited by pgzn; 01-31-2009 at 06:26 AM.
 
  #39  
Old 01-31-2009, 06:56 AM
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OK -- I do think the apology is coming. Obama just told the Pentagon to cut military spending by more than 10%. After the apology, maybe, national defense will no longer really be necessary.

Apparently, according to smart diplomacy, the world will become more secure by America having a weak military. When everyone sees how weak we are, they will want to talk everything out, and Hillary will bring in the soft diplomacy, and the whole world will decide they really like the USA.

Obama is brilliant -- another good start for his second week in office. And with the money he saves with our tax dollars in the military, he will fund abortions for women all over the world. This is the change we need -- less guns, more dead babies.

(The media analysis really was correct -- the fact that Obama had a 20 year commitment to a church that preached "God D_m America" did not mean a thing, but some people just were not smart enough to understand what it really meant).
 
  #40  
Old 01-31-2009, 07:03 AM
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Nevermind that weakness has never worked in the past. Or that it has always invited attack. Or that one of the Federal government's only constitutionally authorized duties is national defense.
I don't see anything in the constitution about providing for the common food stamps, or car payment, or job, or child care, or health care.

ROTFLMAO He's brilliant! Uncle daddy.

Last edited by pgzn; 01-31-2009 at 07:11 AM.
 
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