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  #1  
Old 02-04-2009, 09:10 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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What is your suggestions to fix the economy?

I am wondering what suggestions people have to fix the economy in general.

We read the news everyday and things are getting worse (unemployment, foreclosures, credit crush, etc.) and we often ask ourself what we can do about it.

It would be great to make some of our thoughts public.

Thank you for sharing your point of view with us.
 
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:03 PM
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Actually, a government stimulus program would help the economy if done correctly, but only if done correctly. For instance, if the government spends money to enhance the production of wind power plants, this creates immediate jobs but also has a long term effect in making energy more affordable and keeping our money in our own country. But spending money for the sake of spending money is not a stimulus. If the government spends money to improve the recipe for instant lemonade, this creates immediate jobs, but the surplus of lemonade has no enduring economic significance.

Thus, we have the present debate in Congress. Should we at this time just spend money that taxpayers will have to repay on anything, as just spending money always helps? Or should we carefully examine how increased spending can have an enduring effect overall on the economy.

The plan being proposed now seems to be one of just spending money for the sake of spending money. It seems to be completely lacking in any intelligence or thought, and it is loosing support among the people fast.

However, a stimulus program is only where we have to begin. Thereafter, there is much else to consider doing to keep the economy strong.
 
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:26 PM
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I agree

Though I am all for extra $$$ to spend I want to be able to afford that extra spending $$$ again and again! That is why I believe we need to reduce and or eliminate our dependence on international consumer products such as gasoline/oil and we need to focus on the stimulation of our system of employment.

I think the best way to stimulate our economy from the employment or working class perspective is to selectively lower taxes on BOTH the business/employers side AND the workers/individuals side. My supporting reasons for this tactic are:

By cutting the cost of operations for business' and employers we enable said entities the resources and ability to offer additional employment opportunities, better incentives for said employment opportunities (higher pay, more frequent raises ect..) and thereby put more money into consumers pockets.

By cutting taxes on the individuals side we are complimenting the benefits offered by the above mentioned idea. This in turn increases consumer spending and further reinforces our economy through a steady flow of extra spending $$$!

Furthermore, the above tactic will provide a fertile market for new and small business' (which are started by consumers and working class citizens) to start re emerging. This is important because as of right now small and medium sized business' account for approximately 1/3-2/3 of all jobs within the US economy. That's a BIG chunk!

In conclusion I would like to state that while it is difficult to see one man/woman who has built his/her business from the ground up driving around in a BMW while others can't even afford a roll of Tissue Paper, that man/woman has worked damn hard to get that BMW and he/she has also done a considerable favor to his/her community by providing it with additional employment opportunities to strengthen it's economy. The consumers and working class are only 1/3-1/4 of the whole pie. The big business' need a break too and if we ever hope to survive this economic crisis we need to encourage the creation/expansion of small/medium sized business'.

Last edited by babbelon; 02-04-2009 at 02:31 PM.
 
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:17 PM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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Here something new: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090204/...gress_stimulus

I think it is pretty unfair, if you consider all the people on the edge of foreclosure or people struggling because they bought their home at the highest market price.

What is the governement willing to do for these home owners?
 
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
What is the governement willing to do for these home owners?
That's a good point -- some senators are saying housing got us into this mess and helping the housing industry should come first. However, it may not be that simple. Greenspahn admitted to Congress that when he made loan money easy to the banks, he had regulatory power to pull in risky loans, but he did not think using it was necessary, as he believed the bankers would naturally look after their own self-interest. Greenspahn is smart, but apparently he does not understand the basics on how corporate structure works.

So the problem is not just housing, but the banks themselves, and then reduced spending has put the automotive industry in trouble (as only being the last straw affecting their general stupid policies), and then unemployment raises, and then... it goes on and on like a snowball.

We have to look at the whole picture now. The key really should be getting people back to work (which saves their houses) and becoming energy independent. In the meantime, what relief can be brought to foreclosures should be considered, but individual homeowners will have to share some of the responsibility.
 
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:36 PM
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^I couldn't agree more
 
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:32 PM
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The stimulus package is in big trouble in the Senate. Therefore, Democratic senators have invited President Obama to make a speech on the package on February 24, which he accepted. Everyone has always admitted Obama is good with a speech. It will be interesting to see how making a speech can succeed in putting together a constructive stimulus package.
 
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:03 AM
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In all the discussion about fixing the economy and the stimulus package, one thing that bothers me is, that no one seems to be considering how action taken now could cause significant increases in inflation or even hyper-inflation. The stimulus package has to stimulate -- if not and if it is just spending, then it is just printing money, and as it is also a loan, more money will have to be printed to make the payments. We have to consider the immediate effects of the program but also the long term consequences.

It's like experts were warning us for many years that a major economic crisis was coming due to the way real estate was selling, but no one paid attention. Obama says we have to do something fast and delaying could cause an even greater recession. On the other hand, moving too fast could bring immediate and temporary relief but set the stage for dire future consequences. Hyper-inflation ruined the pre-WWII German economy and brought Hitler to power. $50 for a dozen eggs can be as bad as not being able to make a mortgage payment.

There is a lot to consider in dealing with this crisis. We need the right leadership. But do we have it -- whether in the presidency, or in the Congress, or in the business world? We might not -- and then, if someone comes along with attractive proposed solutions, he/she really might look like a messiah.
 
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:15 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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In my opinion tax cut was a pretty good solution, than spending on programs that doesn't work and cost a lot of money.

The past mistakes about tax cut did not focus truly on low income and middle class, and benefit only big corporations. Things must be calibrated correctly depending on people class.

The most vulnerable people need more help, period !
 
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  #10  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:21 AM
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Like my previous posts in this topic suggests, I believe tax cuts for Big, Medium and Small business' as well as additional tax cuts for the individual, would be an ideal way to stimulate the economy. However, after some additional thought and consideration I realize that I have forgotten to mention how these tax cuts should be distributed.

For the Business':

I believe that tax cuts in the form of individual tax incentives should be initiated for those individuals who would like to create a new industry, start a new business or expand a current business in a current industry. For instance, if an individual wanted to start or had already started a "Green Power" company which would employ 500-1000 (new or additional) people they should receive up to $2000 in tax incentives as well as an additional 1-20% tax cut based on the amount of New Hires employed per year for 5-10 years.

For the individuals:

I believe that the best way to stimulate the economy from the individual or consumer point of view is to offer Sales tax cuts on nationally produced products or products manufactured and produced here in the U.S.A. (maybe even no tax on these items or a no tax week/month) Also I believe that an economic stimulus in the form of tax cut's or even exemptions based on the amount of money currently owed to mortgage(s)/bank(s) per individual/couple would greatly help our struggling housing industry. These tax cuts or exemptions could last up to 10 years and vary based on the amount of debt for each individual/couple.
 
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
The past mistakes about tax cut did not focus truly on low income and middle class, and benefit only big corporations. Things must be calibrated correctly depending on people class.
But there have to be tax breaks for companies that can create jobs. Unfortunately, that may mean the owners will buy nice cars for themselves that average people cannot afford, but fortunately, that also means average people will get a job... and then as well, they will spend money to move the economy along.
 
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  #12  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:37 AM
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^ Exactly!
 
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by babbelon View Post
I believe that the best way to stimulate the economy from the individual or consumer point of view is to offer Sales tax cuts on nationally produced products or products manufactured and produced here in the U.S.A.

Where I'm at the sales tax is over 8%. That cannot be helping the economy. And to get a license plate for a car is very expensive depending on its value -- so why buy a new car?

I don't know that we could cut sales tax on just nationally produced products due to international trade agreements we have. It would look like a tariff.
 
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:38 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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I agree with you guys. Your theory are complety logical.
 
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Old 02-07-2009, 07:26 AM
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Here's a quote from an editorial I just read in the Wall Street Journal.
Quote:
Speaking to a House Democratic retreat on Thursday night, Mr. Obama took on those critics. "So then you get the argument, well, this is not a stimulus bill, this is a spending bill. What do you think a stimulus is? (Laughter and applause.) That's the whole point. No, seriously. (Laughter.) That's the point. (Applause.)"
So it appears Obama is actually clueless on what he is doing. The overall analysis of the article was that the Obama spending proposal was 90% social policy and 10% economic stimulus. The main objective seemed to focus on transfer of wealth from the rich to the less advantaged.

It's all scary -- I mean for the country. I'm not worried myself. But it might look good in the short term, but then, the inflation...
 
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Old 02-07-2009, 10:39 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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I was watching last night the debat in the senat. It was interesting, but if you see the details, there is a lot of budgets for different programs that is not going to help people middle class.

What’s in the $780 billion stimulus? Check below:
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/02/0...lion-stimulus/

Oh and I forgot to say that the stimulus will cost more then $250 billions interests to borrow this kind of money.

The "stimulus" (which is in fact an extension of the federal budget, nothing else) should be analysed carefully, because the total cost will be more then a trillion dollars.

I don't see a reel stimulus for middle class in this.

Last edited by Franc Tireur; 02-07-2009 at 10:57 AM.
 
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:37 PM
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OK -- I looked at your link, which seems to be a partial accounting, but still...

Two areas of the economy not affected by the recession are education and health care. The linked accounting notes 87 billion goes to health care and 140 billion goes to education.

Excuse me!!!! 227 billion goes to stimulate two areas of the economy not in recession!!!

What about energy independence? What about the auto industry? What about the housing industry? Oh yeah, with the auto industry Obama just raised the standard for fuel efficiency -- meaning the auto manufacturers have to put out vast amounts of capital to develop more energy efficient automobiles, while they wonder how to get by on half the sales and how to repay the loans already made.

Monkeys in a zoo could have written a better plan. Are our government leaders out in fantasy land!!!

I think this plan basically will stimulate the sale of beer. That's what everyone is going to have to focus on -- having a beer to keep one's mind off of things.
 
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:05 PM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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Economy rescue: Adding up the dollars: http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/s...out_scorecard/

That's really scary...
 
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2009, 07:34 PM
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I think that obama is taking a gamble with this bill. I think his gamble/idea is this. If he put's money into the peoples pockets, the people will spend that money in the current market, mortgages will get paid, credit cards will get paid and goods will be purchased. In turn when and IF these mortgages are more frequently paid and IF these credit cards are paid off then the banks will start to be able to fix them selves and reissue credit to business' so that they can regain the working capital that they need. In turn, more people will be hired using this working capital and more money will begin to circulate. the mortgages keep getting paid, the credit cards keep getting paid, and the economy slowly climbs out of the hole that it is currently stuck in.

Ok, now here's the big problem with this plan that obama seems to be overlooking. There are too many IF's in this bill and not enough PROMISE. Obama needs to take this bill and tear it to pieces! He needs to stop putting all of his eggs in a rotten old basket and he needs to buy an egg carton!

The main part of his stimulus should not be "spending" to put money in peoples pockets. It should be "Spending" to encourage new employment opportunities and ECONOMIC growth. In short, by giving the poor or struggling people in this country a break he is only prolonging our inevitable struggle to be free of this economic crunch. put more money into promoting new jobs and this economy will bounce right back to where it should be! THATS the bottom line!

I think I'm going to dig through my files and find the presidents public e-mail address. ( I haven't used it in a while because when "dubbaya" was in office he wouldn't have been able to understand sense if I spelled it out for him..Morons..)
 
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by babbelon View Post
I think that obama is taking a gamble with this bill.
Obama has less than three weeks in office, but it is very strange what is going on. Now, he has ordered a halt to sending 17,000 more troops to Afghanistan, just as our commanders are expecting a big increase in Taliban attacks. It's beginning to look like Obama lives in some kind of different world than the rest of us. It's like he wants to create some new kind of reality... And it seems he just has a different conception of what economic reality is.
 
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