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  #1  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:22 AM
WhatsLeft WhatsLeft is offline
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Americans Are Cowards???

Eric Holder, the first black Attorney General of the United States, who was appointed by Barak Obama, has just made a speech saying, “Americans are cowards” in racial matters.

Where I grew up racial hatred was common. The government would call in troops to stop race riots. The soldiers would stand on the street corners with their bayonets fixed, and when we walked by, we would always wonder why they looked so afraid. From what I learned by my experience, having a black man make a statement that includes calling white people cowards does not improve racial relations – it makes them worse, and it is stupid and idiotic. However, I think in general just calling Americans "cowards" is a form of prejudice against our country.

However, the statement is consistent with Obama having a black preacher say a prayer at the inauguration asking God to help white people learn what is right. And it is consistent with Obama having a 20 year commitment to a church that preaches “God D_mn America,” and that upholds black Liberation Theology. Liberation Theology maintains that the Gospels preach a form of Marxism, and in general, Marxists want our country condemned.

I wonder what hymns they sung at that church. Something like, God D_mn America, stand beside her, and guide her, to the fire that is hot far below.

Well, Obama is president less than four weeks, and he is doing what he can to foster racial tension and to create disunity and hatred. I never dreamed he would be this dumb.
 
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  #2  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:30 AM
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I see the KKK is still working the boards
 
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2009, 06:27 AM
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I wouldn't excuse the statement "Americans are cowards".
It's pretty dumb to lump everyone into one group and think you've got them figured out.

But, you really should try to understand where the anger comes from if you're going to actually solve some of the problems with race relations.

You complain about Obama fostering racial tension and creating disunity and hatred, but then add your own fuel to the fire with this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
I wonder what hymns they sung at that church. Something like, God D_mn America, stand beside her, and guide her, to the fire that is hot far below.
Was that statement crafted to bring about unity?
 
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:24 AM
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OK, so some might suggest that when Obama promotes racism, the proper response is to keep hush, hush about it, so that the racism can just be left on its own. On the other hand, when the Obama administration is being racist, the best response might be to point out exactly what is going on... that is how racism is handled today, in order to stop it.

But the comment is more serious than racism. You know who isn't being hush, hush??? In the Middle East today Osama Ben Ladin and all the terrorists are letting every one know that our Attorney General says we are a nation of cowards. That is what they have been promoting for many years, to raise money and people for attacking our homeland. And now the Obama administration has confirmed it.

Does Holder sing, "The land of the free and the home of the cowards" ????? It will be the number one song in Iran soon.

How could Holder be this stupid??? How?!??? What was Obama thinking in appointing him. It's unbelievable!!!!
 
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
Well, Obama is president less than four weeks, and he is doing what he can to foster racial tension and to create disunity and hatred. I never dreamed he would be this dumb.
very carefully ... so as not to get this thread killed off too ...

can I venture an opinion you don't like Obama?
 
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  #6  
Old 02-19-2009, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
But, you really should try to understand where the anger comes from if you're going to actually solve some of the problems with race relations.
Maybe, I should tell some of the stories involving the family of my wife and what she and I have experienced, as she is the daughter of Mexican immigrants. It might actually increase your understanding.
 
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
Maybe, I should tell some of the stories involving the family of my wife and what she and I have experienced, as she is the daughter of Mexican immigrants. It might actually increase your understanding.
How so, exactly?
 
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  #8  
Old 02-19-2009, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabble View Post
very carefully ... so as not to get this thread killed off too ...

can I venture an opinion you don't like Obama?
I do not feel I really know enough about Obama on a personal level to form an opinion on whether to like him or dislike him. However, I am very concerned over how he is starting off his presidency in a very stupid manner, and how that will harm our country.

I very much do not like the fact, that he attended a church for 20 years that preached, "God D_amn America," not because I do not think he has that right, but because I believe such a thing should disqualify a person from being president. I am shocked that he is president, in coming out of such a church with such a message.

However, I have a lot of concerns about Obama.

But do you think, I should be more open minded, like the Democrats were with George "dubya" Bush?
 
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  #9  
Old 02-19-2009, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
How so, exactly?
My wife and I were from the same neighborhood. There was a lot racial prejudice, and she and her family experienced unbelievable prejudice for being Mexican. I met her when she was 14 years old, and we fell in love when she was 16. We constantly had to deal with issues of prejudice and racism, and we discussed it endlessly. And we had a lot of black friends... a lot... because we did not believe in prejudice... and let me tell you, that in our neighborhood, that wasn't easy. It put us at risk. But I do have a perspective about racism, and what Obama is doing has to be noted and stopped.
 
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  #10  
Old 02-19-2009, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
My wife and I were from the same neighborhood. There was a lot racial prejudice, and she and her family experienced unbelievable prejudice for being Mexican. I met her when she was 14 years old, and we fell in love when she was 16. We constantly had to deal with issues of prejudice and racism, and we discussed it endlessly. And we had a lot of black friends... a lot... because we did not believe in prejudice... and let me tell you, that in our neighborhood, that wasn't easy. It put us at risk. But I do have a perspective about racism, and what Obama is doing has to be noted and stopped.
But how is knowledge of any of this going to increase my understanding?
Wouldn't you have to have some sort of measurement of my current understanding to make a judgement like that?
 
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  #11  
Old 02-19-2009, 08:49 AM
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What he said:

Quote:
Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards. Though race related issues continue to occupy a significant portion of our political discussion, and though there remain many unresolved racial issues in this nation, we, average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about race. It is an issue we have never been at ease with and given our nationís history this is in some ways understandable. And yet, if we are to make progress in this area we must feel comfortable enough with one another, and tolerant enough of each other, to have frank conversations about the racial matters that continue to divide us. But we must do more- and we in this room bear a special responsibility. Through its work and through its example this Department of Justice, as long as I am here, must - and will - lead the nation to the "new birth of freedom" so long ago promised by our greatest President. This is our duty and our solemn obligation.
Seems obtuse to the fact that if a White mentions race, he gets labeled a racist.

The coward statement in itself I do not find offensive.
 
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  #12  
Old 02-19-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
I wouldn't excuse the statement "Americans are cowards".
It's pretty dumb to lump everyone into one group and think you've got them figured out.

But, you really should try to understand where the anger comes from if you're going to actually solve some of the problems with race relations.

You complain about Obama fostering racial tension and creating disunity and hatred, but then add your own fuel to the fire with this...


Was that statement crafted to bring about unity?
This statement exemplifies my comment above. No fuel added to any fire of racism there. Absurd to even suggest it.
 
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
But how is knowledge of any of this going to increase my understanding?
Wouldn't you have to have some sort of measurement of my current understanding to make a judgement like that?
Well, the problem is that you started by telling me to try to understand without making any effort to first find out what I did know. So I responded with your method, but also trying to fill in the gap a bit on what you left out, and also noting "might" help your understanding.

Last edited by WhatsLeft; 02-19-2009 at 08:59 AM. Reason: added last phrase
 
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  #14  
Old 02-19-2009, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
Well, the problem is that you started by telling me to try to understand without making any effort to first find out what I did know. So I responded with your method, but also trying to fill in the gap a bit on what you left out, and also noting "might" help your understanding.
I wasn't referring to You (Whatsleft).
I was referring to you (Americans), as the topic of the sentences previous was racism and Americans.
In general, polarization is not going to help you (Americans) solve your racial issues.
John is right in that racism has no particular skin colour.
There's no such thing as "reverse racism". A racist comment is a racist comment, no matter who utters it.

As long as whites are not allowed to talk about race and non-whites continue to cry "racism" when they do, issues will not be solved.
They will only get worse.
If you have one particular man saying that Americans are cowards for not tackling this problem sooner, it might be more productive for you to find out why he's saying this and attempt to fix it, rather than come down on him for using the word "cowards".
(Again, using the collective "you" here, lest you think I'm singling Whatsleft out)
 
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
If you have one particular man saying that Americans are cowards for not tackling this problem sooner, it might be more productive for you to find out why he's saying this and attempt to fix it, rather than come down on him for using the word "cowards".
(Again, using the collective "you" here, lest you think I'm singling Whatsleft out)
One man is one thing. But this is, indeed, a particular man. This is a man that represents the United States Government and the Obama addministration, and who is supposed to lead the way in litigation of national interest, promoting justice for all as necessary according to current circumstance.

He is a man with immense responsibility... and sadly, he has abused that responsibility. He is supposed to evaluate carefully the full impact of any statement he makes. But instead, he recklessly makes a racist statement, and degrades our nation, and aids our enemies in their propaganda and objective to attach the country.

Holder has no excuses!!! He has blundered terribly. It's time for the Obama administration to start getting it together.

But Zap, America has dealt with the race issue a long time. It is the biggest stain on our reputation. But how to evaluate it is changing quickly, which was true even before Obama was elected.
 
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:19 PM
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I meant attack, not attach in the last post.
 
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Old 02-19-2009, 05:06 PM
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Zap, I didn't see you were a mentor until just now. It seems there are a lot of moderators and mentors in the forum, and sometimes I catch seeing the titles, and sometimes I do not. I wish it was highlighted somehow, but there is only so much that software can let happen.
 
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  #18  
Old 02-19-2009, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
Americans Are Cowards???
Yes, most people in the world are cowards. Nothing new, why? Because war can never be justified -it will always be an act of cowardice. That's what the guy making the statement about 'cowards' meant.

He meant that the inability for many Americans to move past racism in this very diverse country is cowardice. A true coward is one who cannot find different means to solve a problem without fighting or beginning a fight -like with racism.

Quote:
Cowardice
See also behavior; fear

invertebracy
the state or quality of being without a backbone, hence, metaphorically, spinelessness; lack of strength of character.
Found here: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cowardice
 
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Old 02-19-2009, 06:19 PM
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No, Americans are not cowards. Not at all. At times they are very mistaken, but they even do that with bravery. But maybe, Holder made the statement, because he is too much of a coward to deal with the what Americans really are, and because he does not have the maturity to overcome his own feelings on race relations, so that his judgment is not affected. As a black leader, Obama has the golden opportunity to really affect and change race relations, but it does appear he just wants to dump that opportunity into the garbage and fan the flames.

Krahmaan, so according to your view, should we change the national anthem???? Should we make it "the land of the free, and the home of the cowards."

Keep in mind, I don't know when I will be able to answer, as something happened to the forum software, and sometimes I can post and sometimes I cannot, and sometimes I can edit and sometimes not, which has been going on all this afternoon. Looks like someone played with something.
 
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatsLeft View Post
Krahmaan, so according to your view, should we change the national anthem???? Should we make it "the land of the free, and the home of the cowards."
My view?

I've just explained to this Forum what Eric Holder meant, and how he was using the term 'coward'. It was used in a general sense, just as I used it dealing with the rest of the world. I also gave you definitions to back my statement. What else would you need?

What's often said, and what's meant are two completely different things. Mr. Holder was making his point about cowardice dealing with racism. It was a good point, and a true one -IMO. Now it is only for you to decide how you're interpreting what he said. You can ask someone else to clarify for you -as I did. Or you can hold on to what you to believe is the truth of what he said. But to get to the bottom of what he meant himself, you may want to ask him if you believe me not. Simple as that.

Not to down you, but you often seem to overreact to what people say (like in our first meeting), maybe you should try seeing things from a different angle? Or, not. Not all statements are personally directed towards you. Well at least, not all the time.

As to if I think that this country's national anthem should be changed -why, no. It's a very good anthem as is don't you think? But this is not a debate about the American anthem is it? I thought this was about what Eric Holder meant in his statement -am I not correct?
 
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