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  #41  
Old 04-22-2009, 08:27 AM
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I said the reason may be genetic, but I think it may more likely be medical. Seems to me the gay explosion just started, so the seeming phenomenon may exist for medical reasons.

There is an important edition of Frontline currently airing on PBS entitled Poisoned Waters, that everyone should watch. Male bass harboring eggs, six legged and cross gendered frogs etc..

it's really an important film to see. They may have a vid you can watch at the PBS site if you don't want to wait for the next TV airing.
 
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  #42  
Old 04-22-2009, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Atom View Post
I said the reason may be genetic, but I think it may more likely be medical. Seems to me the gay explosion just started, so the seeming phenomenon may exist for medical reasons.

There is an important edition of Frontline currently airing on PBS entitled Poisoned Waters, that everyone should watch. Male bass harboring eggs, six legged and cross gendered frogs etc..

it's really an important film to see. They may have a vid you can watch at the PBS site if you don't want to wait for the next TV airing.
And as the medical alteration passed, the doctors will claim it as genetic.
 
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  #43  
Old 04-23-2009, 05:13 AM
krahmaan krahmaan is offline
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Wow... I think this is the dumbest thing I've read from you yet.
I remember you once told me that I never posted research articles to back my statements. But when I did, you totally failed to argue against IT in your reply to me. Just calling me names now, that's it? I got to hand it to ya, nice debating tactic...

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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
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Originally Posted by Harveyj View Post
Your friend, the one you claim to be homosexual, is not. If he's willing to have sex with a woman, that makes him BIsexual...


Seriously, do you even know any actually homosexual people socially?
You've got all the ignorance of someone who starts a sentence with "I'm not against gays, but..."
I said my friend got married to a woman, not had sex with one. He's living a heterosexual lifestyle since he's been married. Funny you didn't read that part! Silly you.

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3. While I would agree with you that environment may play a role in someone's sexual preference, I also believe that nature plays a (probably larger) role. So, in keeping with the "natural" theme, perhaps people are gay for a perfectly natural reason and are, indeed, part of nature's grand plan.
You've made a very good point Zap. But the logic is flawed. But I kind of don't want to say where because just I love the effort you've put in.

But a debate is a debate... So, let me tell you where your logic is flawed in the natural 'theme' (sense).

You're equating death, with sexual preference. Two completely different things. One is inevitable (death) no cheating it -I'll guarantee that one (no article needed). The other (sexual preference), is a preference. The word preference means choice. Here's the definition for all the article & link buffs out there: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/preference

In this definition, notice how the word choice comes up -again and often. So whether one chooses to live a gay or straight life it is a choice. But which one sounds more 'n-a-t-u-r-a-l'? If genes were involved, then the parents would have been gay too or gay bloodlines. But that is false too, because two men won't procreate. Truth (what's natural) is simple -so why complicate it?
 
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  #44  
Old 04-23-2009, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
You're equating death, with sexual preference. Two completely different things. One is inevitable (death) no cheating it -I'll guarantee that one (no article needed). The other (sexual preference), is a preference. The word preference means choice. Here's the definition for all the article & link buffs out there: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/preference
If you look more carefully at my statements, I'm not equating death with sexual preference at all. I was merely stating an opinion that nature is responsible for both. Nature is also responsible for the colour of the sky, which has nothing to do with death, nor sexual orientation. And I chose the word "orientation" to illustrate that I think you're putting too much emphasis on the word "choice" here.
I would no more believe that sexual preference is a choice for homosexuals than I would believe it is a choice for heterosexuals. I don't know about you, K-Man, but I do not have much choice in the basic core instincts I have. I could not "choose" to be gay if my life depended on it. I'm hard wired to be attracted to women. There is no choice for me.

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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
In this definition, notice how the word choice comes up -again and often. So whether one chooses to live a gay or straight life it is a choice. But which one sounds more 'n-a-t-u-r-a-l'? If genes were involved, then the parents would have been gay too or gay bloodlines. But that is false too, because two men won't procreate. Truth (what's natural) is simple -so why complicate it?
One major problem with your argument... Homosexuals are attracted to members of the same sex.
How do you explain that? I'm not talking about what they do in bed, here.
I'm talking about their natural (n-a-t-u-r-a-l) urges and desires.
They have no more control over their urges than you do over yours.
They are not superhumans or subhumans. They are humans, like you and I.
You are attracted to women. You say that is natural.
Given that, how can their attractions not be natural?
 
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  #45  
Old 04-23-2009, 10:45 AM
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Love and let love!

That is my firm belief.
 
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  #46  
Old 04-23-2009, 01:11 PM
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Yeah mine too.


Endocrine inhibitors, folks. Check out Poisoned Waters if you get a chance.
 
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  #47  
Old 04-23-2009, 01:15 PM
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Endocrine profiles are different for men and women, it may be a simple matter of endocrine profile disruption in the population due to a certain chemical, or some chemical cocktail in our waters.
 
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  #48  
Old 04-23-2009, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
How do you explain that? I'm not talking about what they do in bed, here. I'm talking about their natural (n-a-t-u-r-a-l) urges and desires. They have no more control over their urges than you do over yours.
They are not superhumans or subhumans. They are humans, like you and I.
You are attracted to women. You say that is natural.
Given that, how can their attractions not be natural?
How do I explain this? With more truth. You've seemed to have left out those whom, even though have the same type of natural desires to... "DO IT".

Who still, have chosen (chosen being the key word here) to live lives of celibacy (chastity). How about them? They choose not even to have sex, or at least to control it. They have all the desires to ph--k, just like heterosexuals and homosexuals. But they choose to keep that lustful desire in check. Still there is a choice. (Pardon my French, but I could not stress this point enough)
 
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  #49  
Old 04-23-2009, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
How do I explain this? With more truth. You've seemed to have left out those whom, even though have the same type of natural desires to... "DO IT".

Who still, have chosen (chosen being the key word here) to live lives of celibacy (chastity). How about them? They choose not even to have sex, or at least to control it. They have all the desires to ph--k, just like heterosexuals and homosexuals. But they choose to keep that lustful desire in check. Still there is a choice. (Pardon my French, but I could not stress this point enough)
But why make that choice at all?
Someone has desires and they are supposed to supress them, deny them?
That kind of goes against the spirit of humanity? Doesn't it?

How is that "natural"?
 
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  #50  
Old 04-24-2009, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
But why make that choice at all?
Someone has desires and they are supposed to supress them, deny them?
That kind of goes against the spirit of humanity? Doesn't it?

How is that "natural"?
The most Natural thing I know of is to LUST for the love of God. If you believe in one. If not, then lust for truth or finding truth in yourself. That's more natural than lust for intimacy. That is what separates humans from the animal. The ability to lust for Truth.
 
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  #51  
Old 04-24-2009, 07:00 PM
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Here's a link to the Poisoned Waters video.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...edwaters/view/








.
 
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  #52  
Old 04-25-2009, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by krahmaan View Post
The most Natural thing I know of is to LUST for the love of God. If you believe in one. If not, then lust for truth or finding truth in yourself. That's more natural than lust for intimacy. That is what separates humans from the animal. The ability to lust for Truth.
Some of us lust for both.

Again, why force a choice?
 
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  #53  
Old 04-25-2009, 03:02 PM
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As long as those queers don't go to Iran they will be okay.
 
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  #54  
Old 04-25-2009, 06:14 PM
krahmaan krahmaan is offline
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Some of us lust for both.

Again, why force a choice?
When it comes to dealing with if one will be a heterosexual, homosexual, or abstain from sex, no one (person) is forcing a choice. Life gives us many paths to choose, some lead to a dead end. And yet, there is still a choice among the three mentioned here.

The Question is, which is the best choice of the three realistically (or naturally).

Abstaining from sex doesn't always mean suppressing the say, 'Naturality' of it. One could wait until married, then have say two or more children then not indulge in the passion for sex. Controlling it, even within a relationship. But both parties would have to be consenting to this. Then they both could be viewed Spiritually as a Chaste couple.

The scope of intercourse from a Spiritual sense was to facilitate reproduction mainly. And also not to be over indulged in. Turning a natural act, into a vile one. And there too is a choice.

Last edited by krahmaan; 04-25-2009 at 06:20 PM. Reason: added italics
 
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  #55  
Old 04-25-2009, 06:19 PM
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As long as those queers don't go to Iran they will be okay.

Grow up. Being gay isn't contagious.
 
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  #56  
Old 04-25-2009, 06:20 PM
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but...

what about the poisoned water?
 
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  #57  
Old 04-25-2009, 06:24 PM
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Grow up. Being gay isn't contagious.
huh? Who said it was contagious?

You lost me bro.


People that are in Iran that are queer are hung in the gallows in town square.
 
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  #58  
Old 04-25-2009, 06:30 PM
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Sure, lotsa gays in Greek times, but were there really lots? Per capita?

I still say that some kind of explosion has occurred for strictly physical reasons, I have a hard time thinking it's simply due to them coming out of the closet or the closet disappearing.

Last edited by Atom; 04-25-2009 at 06:34 PM.
 
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  #59  
Old 04-25-2009, 06:33 PM
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Sure, lotsa gays in Greek times, but were there really lots? Per capita?

I still say that some kind of explosion has occurred for strictly physical reasons, I have a hard time thinking it's simply due to them coming out of the closet.
Do you have a per capita source on queer in classical Greece?

That was a really interesting quote.
 
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  #60  
Old 04-25-2009, 06:37 PM
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Do you have a per capita source on queer in classical Greece?

That was a really interesting quote.
Well, no actually I don't, but that would be an interesting thing to research I think.
 
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