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  #1  
Old 05-04-2009, 10:32 PM
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Economic casualties pile into tent cities

For this particular thread, I do not want to hear blame. I want to hear solutions.

What SPECIFIC actions do you believe can make a difference. Please read the full article before responding and explain why you feel the way you do.

Economic casualties pile into tent cities
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...s_N.htm?csp=34
 
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  #2  
Old 05-05-2009, 12:20 AM
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Stop giving Tax breaks to companies who are providing employment outside of US. No more outsourcing.

Tax them so hard that it will cost them cheaper to employ American worker than Chinese.

Take away multi billions dollars bonuses from CEOs who let companies go down and use it to pay rent for homeless workers they has been created.



 
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  #3  
Old 05-05-2009, 09:47 PM
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Thank you for responding! I am a bit surprised that more people haven't responded. Is it possible people prefer only discuss the problems instead of their thoughts concerning solutions?
 
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:39 PM
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I can’t believe Americans care more about gay issues than homelessness problem that is sweeping their Country.

Come on Mr. and Mrs. America wake up because you are in crisis and if you think swine epidemic is bad than you all have something bigger to worry about and you better start doing it now before it's too late.

 
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  #5  
Old 05-05-2009, 11:58 PM
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This is a perfect example of why we so desperately need the fair tax. When a company outsources a job to another country it's because it's financially beneficial to do so.

You take away tax breaks and these companies will do the very thing they should do; pull up their stakes, move the entire operation to a more business friendly country, and take the remaining jobs with them. Since when can you punish achievers into achieving more? It's never been done and it can't be done.

The kind of people who run and evolve the types of industries that create jobs are the kind of people who want to grow. They want to create, to expand. Give them the environment to do it in and they will. They always have.

Rather than hiking taxes on them forcing them to cut jobs and production here and move them elsewhere, remove the taxes altogether. Make America the most industry friendly country on earth. Without the burden, not only are existing companies free to expand, but the environment welcomes new innovators to move in. The expansion creates new jobs. The new jobs, along with the absence of personal income taxes, create new spending as people are able to buy the things they want.

The sales tax collections swell to meet and exceed any deficit caused by removing the income tax. If it falls short, the government can do like any business or family economy. They can find a way to work with the money they have available. With the transparency of the fair tax, countless dollars would be saved just by hurting politicians ability to create and fund ridiculous pork barrel projects.

America grew like wildfire because the environment was here to do it. There will always be problems til the government gets out of the way and lets those who know how to create jobs and money do it.
 
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  #6  
Old 05-06-2009, 12:50 AM
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When you say cut taxes, are you talking about cuts that American companies got under Bush Administration?

Since Obama took over 3 month ago those companies didnít paid a penny more in taxes which bring me to the dead end because I donít understand why after everything that they want to and got from Bush Administration American still end up on the streets penniless and homeless.

 
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:10 AM
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I lived in St. Petersburg (the story is based on) and the population in that county is over 1 million. (I'm going to sound mean) but homeless centers have 250 to 500 people in them. (that's less than .001% of the population.)
There is work in St. Pete. There are 10 day labor companies there, they have 2 salvation army centers that teach and help people get jobs. In other words, there is work in that area.

The part you won't read in this story is that if you make more than a certain amount of money, the church will not let you live there. The church feeds you, cloths you and you can do this no question asked.

You have no clue if these people are running from the law, avoiding child support issues, hiding from what ever because they do not have to supply proof of who they are. You personally have no clue if that guy did work in the auto world. He just said he did and that's good enough? He could be right out of prison and you have no clue. (last time I heard, wasn't auto workers get unemployment pay that was to last over 75 weeks? or 1 year 5 months?)

There are many things this story doesn't say, that if it was in the story you would have a different outlook.
Here are some simple things:
Where's the family? Homeless centers for guy and girls are in every community, so where are the families? The children? If things are so bad, where are they?
People losing their homes? Really? Once again where are the families? I see investors losing their 2 and 3rd homes, but not families.

The major problem is taxes. Lower the taxes of property and buying so people will have more money to spend. This isn't brain science. Just people don't like to use their brains.
 
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  #8  
Old 05-06-2009, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
When you say cut taxes, are you talking about cuts that American companies got under Bush Administration?
Not at all. I'm talking about an absolute elimination of all income tax on all companies and all people in any job at any income level from the rich to the poor and everyone in between.

I'm talking about no property taxes so that people don't face losing a home they already paid for if they lose their income and can't pay residual taxes on it.

I'm talking about no death tax so that people don't lose homes their parents worked and paid for because they can't pay the transfer taxes when the parents die.

No tax on anyone anywhere at any time until they make a taxable purchase. Under the fair tax, the poor even get that back.

This is an environment that creates plentiful jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Since Obama took over 3 month ago those companies didnít paid a penny more in taxes which bring me to the dead end because I donít understand why after everything that they want to and got from Bush Administration American still end up on the streets penniless and homeless.
It's a shame when people lose homes and situations. This isn't uncharted territory though. Those people, the "new homeless" in the article, will rebound. They always have. Google "great depression pictures".

My family went through it when I was young. My father was a farmer during the agriculture bust and lost our home, farm, everything but an old car. He was observant enough to read the writing on the wall. He took action before the inevitable. He took whatever jobs people would pay him to do. I don't care what anybody says, there's always some job in America. Maybe not enough to keep your current home, but enough to keep you out of the street. Flip burgers, pull weeds, unload trucks, sweep parking lots, something. He worked crappy jobs while going back to school and starting a new career. He wound up doing great from then til now.

I know everyone's situation is different and I take nothing from the plight of those left in the hole, but there's always a way back for the determined.
 
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  #9  
Old 05-06-2009, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South View Post
Not at all. I'm talking about an absolute elimination of all income tax on all companies and all people in any job at any income level from the rich to the poor and everyone in between.

I'm talking about no property taxes so that people don't face losing a home they already paid for if they lose their income and can't pay residual taxes on it.
Hey South, now you’re talking. I love that. No taxes, eh

The only problem I have, if nobody pays taxes, then where City Hall will get money from to pay salaries for essential services such as Police for example and where would Bush get money to pay for war in Iraq not to mention who will pay for the weapons etc.?

Any ideas?

 
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2009, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Hey South, now youíre talking. I love that. No taxes, eh

The only problem I have, if nobody pays taxes, then where City Hall will get money from to pay salaries for essential services such as Police for example and where would Bush get money to pay for war in Iraq not to mention who will pay for the weapons etc.?

Any ideas?

Sales tax. The sales tax would be substantially higher than it is right now. That makes it the fairest system imaginable. Poorer people buy less expensive things and so they pay less taxes. Richer people buy more expensive things and pay more. For people who don't like the loopholes the rich find for taxes, sales tax are collected at point of purchase. Completely transparent.

Those up to the poverty line pay nothing so that every dime they get and every dime they spend goes directly to the things they need. A person living on a thin budget could spend a little time at yard sales, plant a small garden, and take other wise measures to cut out the amount of taxes they pay.

It's not my idea. It's a working plan. There are way more details than I could put here, but check it out.

http://www.fairtax.org
 
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  #11  
Old 05-06-2009, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South View Post
Sales tax. The sales tax would be substantially higher than it is right now. That makes it the fairest system imaginable.
Yep, this may work.

The only question I have, who is going to collect and manage trillions of dollars in sales taxes?

Something else I have problems to comprehend. Every time company is going to buy raw materials, they would have to pay sales tax on top and if that cost, let say 100 Millions, then company must come up with another 20 millions or more up front to pay sales tax. They don’t have to do it now.

But I must to admit, you will have the best underground economy in the world and to that I’ll say: go for it.

 
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:36 PM
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We can't always refer to the tax payers for solution. Their contribution might be enough to alleviate governments need for funding but why do people still can't see that the US Government actually have the enough fund to support even each of the homeless families.

All governments in the world always worry about tax procedures but they don't put more attention to how they'll finally use it wisely.

Isn't US Governments Tax Funds enough to start a new housing project for the homeless? At least a temporary residence for the professionals who're struggling to look for new jobs just to pay there rents or house lease.
 
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2009, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South View Post
Sales tax. The sales tax would be substantially higher than it is right now. That makes it the fairest system imaginable. Poorer people buy less expensive things and so they pay less taxes. Richer people buy more expensive things and pay more. For people who don't like the loopholes the rich find for taxes, sales tax are collected at point of purchase. Completely transparent.
I know it's not your idea, but I'm going to say I like "your idea" anyway because you were the one that presented it here.
The only problem that I see with it, is that underground economy that ranter speaks of, or that people will spend less because of the taxes they will pay at checkout.
It does seem rather fair, though. Fair to everyone, which makes it a great candidate for a new system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Yep, this may work.

The only question I have, who is going to collect and manage trillions of dollars in sales taxes?
Dude.... Sales taxes are collected right now. Nothing will change there, just the percentages.
 
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  #14  
Old 05-07-2009, 08:18 AM
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The only problem that I see with it, is that underground economy that ranter speaks of, or that people will spend less because of the taxes they will pay at checkout.
There's a huge underground economy now. Millions work under the table for cash that pay no income tax into the system. There will always be some of that.

But it offsets in other ways as well.

The current system is trying to collect taxes from each individual. It costs us $265 billion in compliance costs right now and they still come up shy by $350 billion annually.

Legitimate retailers will collect and submit like clockwork because if they don't, they face losing their business. Compliance costs to the government will fall dramatically.

Plus, since taxes are based on purchases rather than where you live, there's new revenue in other ways. Illegal immigrants who cannot pay an income tax will now pay in. Visitors will pay in. I doubt a higher sales tax on trinkets is going to deter foreigners who want to see America.

More importantly, the system frees up money made in business profits that used to go to paying taxes that can now be used to expand business and in turn create new jobs. These people then have new money to spend which goes right back into the system.

So if a person wants to get filthy rich and live like a king, they pay the price for doing it. Living rich costs money and it's a choice. But if someone wants to just buy a few acres of land and raise chickens, pigs, and a garden, they can do that without having taxes levied against them for "existing". They don't have to keep a revenue stream running just to pay the government off.

That's freedom.
 
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  #15  
Old 05-07-2009, 08:53 AM
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OK. So when do we get started.
 
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  #16  
Old 05-07-2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Yep, this may work.
Something else I have problems to comprehend. Every time company is going to buy raw materials, they would have to pay sales tax on top and if that cost, let say 100 Millions, then company must come up with another 20 millions or more up front to pay sales tax. They donít have to do it now.
They're paying it now in income taxes. So they can either

1) Pay it out in taxes on new materials to create new jobs and new revenue exceeding the investment

or

2) Pay it into the government as an income tax and get nothing. That's where we are now.
 
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  #17  
Old 05-07-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South View Post
They're paying it now in income taxes. So they can either

1) Pay it out in taxes on new materials to create new jobs and new revenue exceeding the investment

or

2) Pay it into the government as an income tax and get nothing. That's where we are now.
You just wait a minute mister.
I donít think you understand how sales taxes work.

You donít take sales tax money and invest them in new job creation, you pay them up front instead, thus eliminating an opportunity to keep them in your packet and use them to create new jobs.

But the question I really want you to answer is:
Who is going to collect and manage trillions of dollars in sales taxes?
and
I mentioned City Hall. As you know it get money from Property and Business and not from Sales Taxes. If you eliminate them, then how you expect City Halls to pay for services and maintaining all vital city functions?

 
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
You just wait a minute mister.
I donít think you understand how sales taxes work.
I pay and collect them daily and submit them to the government quarterly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
You donít take sales tax money and invest them in new job creation, you pay them up front instead, thus eliminating an opportunity to keep them in your packet and use them to create new jobs.
Technically you finance expansions and hold cash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
But the question I really want you to answer is:
Who is going to collect and manage trillions of dollars in sales taxes?
The same people who collect them now will collect them then, and the same people who manage it now will manage it then. Just more of them because of increased volume. I'm not sure what you're asking. You know we already pay sales tax, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
how you expect City Halls to pay for services and maintaining all vital city functions?
Sales tax.
 
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Old 05-07-2009, 06:27 PM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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I thought sales taxes went to the state you are living in, not the government.

There are many things that can be impoved in US.

- Obligatory insurance on every mortgages (When you lose your job, at least you can have a cover for 1 or 2 years)

- Stop lenders from giving more credit than you can afford

- Unemployed people insurance paid by both workers and companies

- Health insurance paid by employers and workers, if you become unemployed you still have health insurance

If these basic changes were made, it would be a great start.


See what the Europeens countries cover for their people unemployed, homeless, etc
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30363790/

There is no ideal system, but some are better than others

I will say that one of the ideal system could be between US and Europe.
 
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:30 PM
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I just realized that I turned Cricket's thread into a Fair Tax thread. Let's get some more suggestions.
 
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