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Old 05-18-2009, 12:14 AM
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What can you say about the speech of President Obama about abortion at Notre Dame?

Well, for me I'm a christian catholic and killing an innocent child is a crime,...Any opinion guys?
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:19 AM
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Is there available in YouTube of President Obama speech at Notre Dame?
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:30 PM
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I think it's horrendous, but it's nothing new with Obama. It was part ofhis platform, and there were a lot of noise surrounding this issue when he was still running his campaign. So why are people so shocked now?
 
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:27 PM
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I think many people did not notice this and today,..... I'm losing faith with this President.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by istongtotong View Post
Well, for me I'm a christian catholic and killing an innocent child is a crime,...Any opinion guys?
Agree, but.... who has been killing them?
I never heard nothing about Catholic churches killing children.

Maybe 5 - 8 centuries ago in some secret rituals but I don't think they still do this now

 
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:20 PM
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Catholic condemn abortion and if anyone agree to approved the legality of abortion,....He will suffer for his action.

Hey Ranter! maybe my grammar is not that good but I hope you get my point.

Any ways are you a Christian?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Agree, but.... who has been killing them?
I never heard nothing about Catholic churches killing children.

Maybe 5 - 8 centuries ago in some secret rituals but I don't think they still do this now

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Old 05-20-2009, 05:30 AM
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Probably not the best move of his political career.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by istongtotong View Post
Catholic condemn abortion and if anyone agree to approved the legality of abortion,....He will suffer for his action.

Hey Ranter! maybe my grammar is not that good but I hope you get my point.

Any ways are you a Christian?
Your grammar is fine but your logic is not that good.

You are combining abortion and child as if it's the same and if you step out from Bible for a moment and try Dictionary instead, you will discover that it's not the same.

So, lets talk about pro-life. Shall we?
Killing child is what mother of Daniel Hauser, boy with Hodgkin's Lymphoma has been doing by denying medical treatment because she is a Catholic and Christian who believes that God will provide her son with some magical cure.

Child can be killed only after child was born. Don't you know that?


Last edited by ranter; 05-20-2009 at 10:24 AM.
 
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post

Child can be killed only after child was born. Don't you know that?


Um, no.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/child says that a child is a:

1 a: an unborn or recently born person


Science also disagrees with you.

Dr. Hymie Gordon, the late Mayo Clinic scholar/teacher/physician, declared: “By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception.”

The question is not whether it is a baby, but whether it is a human being (organism).

Professor Micheline Matthews *Roth, Harvard Medical School, observes: “It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at
conception.”

Dr. Eugene Diamond, past chairman of the pediatrics department of Loyola University Medical School, Maywood, Illinois, says, “We no longer need to belabor the question of when human life begins; it begins incontrovertibly at the union of sperm and ovum."

The late European geneticist Dr. Jerome Lejeune stated, “The fetus is a human being. Genetically, he is complete.”

Serious philosophers who promote abortion (like Sanger) do so while acknowledging that it is murder - i.e., taking of innocent human life.
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
Um, no.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/child says that a child is a:

1 a: an unborn or recently born person
Here we go again John

I have to admit you had presented us with very impressive line up of pro-life activists who will claim that white piece of paper is not white at all but black if their statement will suite alike community.

Should I remind you that none of them is claiming that fetus by definishing is a child (neither you do directly BTW, but maybe because you’re smarter than that)

A child (plural: children) is a human being between the stages of birth and puberty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child

 
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:22 PM
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Should I remind you that none of them is claiming that fetus by definishing is a child
Unless I have mis-read Roe v Wade, the Congress of the US has within it's power to define the point at which life begins. If life begins at conception the the baby/fetus would be afforded all the rights of any other citizen.

I don't judge others but I do believe that life begins at conception and would love to see the current Congress address the issue since majority of them were elected on on a pro-life basis.

I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen since I do need to inhale in order to live.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post

A child (plural: children) is a human being between the stages of birth and puberty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child

Cute, kid, but no. There are a couple dictionaries that are considered to be authorities - Websters and the Oxford English Dictionary come to mind.

Both Websters and the OED list as their first definition "unborn and recently born". So, yeah, you put your foot in your mouth.
Quote:
definishing is a child
What is this new word? Definishing?

Quote:
I have to admit you had presented us with very impressive line up of pro-life activists who will claim that white piece of paper is not white at all but black if their statement will suite alike community.
Your Liberal ignorance is showing. It isn't just pro-life activists who acknowledge that abortion is murder. If you were educated in the matter you would know that many of the most prominent defenders of abortion admit that it is murder - and still defend it as a woman's choice based on the woman's sovereignty over her own body.

It's quite untenable to say that the unborn child is not human life, biologically speaking. Although I'd be interested in hearing any academic arguments in favor of that position. Do you have one? Just one would be great.
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
Cute, kid???

Your Liberal ignorance is showing.
Really? I was afraid you’ll mistaken me with someone who’s fuelled by religious stupidity but now I feel better.

Medical term for abortion is: termination of pregnancy but only educated people like you and pro-life fanatics call it murder of child whereas the rest of us call it women’s choice.

Talking about what is the difference between child and fetus. I’m glad you chose merriam-webster to define child as an unborn thus giving me an opportunity to discredit that point by using the same publication and how it defines fetus.

An unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind ; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetus

Britannica has it even better than that:
the unborn young of any vertebrate animal, particularly of a mammal, after it has attained the basic form and structure typical of its kind.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/205520/fetus

As you can see my little poppy, neither of them defines fetus as a child thus making OP’s claim nothing more than piece of rubbish and makes you totally incompetent “intellectual” without cause.

If you want to talk about killing children, then talk about Daniel Hauser.
That is of course if you have enough brains to handle real life tragedy.


Last edited by ranter; 05-21-2009 at 10:55 PM.
 
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:54 PM
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Okay folks, let's remember not to let things get personal . . .
 
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Old 05-21-2009, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Really? I was afraid you’ll mistaken me with someone who’s fuelled by religious stupidity but now I feel better.
I would suppose that you are fueled by religious sentiment of a kind. It surely is not logical, so in that way is it akin to religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Medical term for abortion is: termination of pregnancy but only educated people like you and pro-life fanatics call it murder of child whereas the rest of us call it women’s choice.
Yes, the medical term for abortion is termination of a pregnancy, and many doctors do in fact call in murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Talking about what is the difference between child and fetus. I’m glad you chose merriam-webster to define child as an unborn thus giving me an opportunity to discredit that point by using the same publication and how it defines fetus.

An unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind ; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetus

Britannica has it even better than that:
the unborn young of any vertebrate animal, particularly of a mammal, after it has attained the basic form and structure typical of its kind.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/205520/fetus

As you can see my little poppy, neither of them defines fetus as a child thus making OP’s claim nothing more than piece of rubbish and makes you totally incompetent “intellectual” without cause.
Fetus is unborn young. Who is contesting that? Certainly I am not. The only thing being contested is your assertion that the meaning of the word "child" excludes the unborn.

I gave you Websters and Oxford English Dictionary as rebuttal - both include the unborn in their primary definitions. You lose. Get over it.

Quote:
If you want to talk about killing children, then talk about Daniel Hauser.
That is of course if you have enough brains to handle real life tragedy.

Common tactic of the stupid. I am sure that when Stalin was called on his mass murders, he probably retorted "Look at what Hitler did. That is of course if you have enough brains to handle real life tragedy."

Of course, intelligent people know that accepting A, B or C as a tragedy does not exclude D, E or F from being equally tragic or even more tragic.
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Last edited by John Scott; 05-21-2009 at 11:22 PM.
 
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:40 AM
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Are you talking about doctors who bring cross to operation room instead of scalpel and read Bible instead of patient medical record? The same doctors who believe in creationism and for years disrespect women and denied their rights by keeping them from entering medical establishment? Oh, I know, the same chauvinist doctors who are sharing with you your logic.

Now Johnnie boy, give it to me laud and clear.
What is unborn fetus: child or not?

As to “Common tactic of the stupid”, Stalin was responsible for death of 42 Millions CCCP citizens but not because Hitler did something, but because he wants to and his justification was: "В имя народа" - “in the name of the people”. So, next time you'll use History, get your facts straight or you wouldn't need any proof that you are a victim of common tactic of the stupid


Last edited by ranter; 05-22-2009 at 01:47 AM.
 
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Old 05-22-2009, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Are you talking about doctors who bring cross to operation room instead of scalpel and read Bible instead of patient medical record?
Not at all. I am talking about many, many doctors - mainstream doctors who have disdain for abortionists. Many of the most outspoken anti-abortionists are in fact atheists and anti-religious. That fact that you didn't know that reveals an astonishing amount of ignorance on this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
Now Johnnie boy, give it to me laud and clear.
What is unborn fetus: child or not?
According to the leading dictionaries, the word "child" does include unborn children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter View Post
As to “Common tactic of the stupid”, Stalin was responsible for death of 42 Millions CCCP citizens but not because Hitler did something, but because he wants to and his justification was: "В имя народа" - “in the name of the people”

So, next time you'll use History, get your facts first or you yourself will become a victim of common tactic of the stupid

Get my history straight? Where did I say that Stalin killed because of Hitler? Are you hallucinating? Are you on PCP again?
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:20 AM
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According to the leading dictionaries, the word "child" does include unborn children.
It doesn’t matter how many times you’re going to repeat the same lie that piece of white paper is black, it still stays white. Remember Shakespeare: rose by any other name…?
Just because you say so, doesn’t make it so no matter how strongly you personally believe that your wishful thinking is truth because without facts it’s nothing more than second hand emotion.

Now lets talk about facts, shall we?
This is what Oxford English Dictionary says:
Quote:
Search: "child"
within results: "fetus"
Found 1 document.
Help
1.. Appeals list - Oxford English Dictionary
... pup (noun: dirty child): antedate 1984 muggins (card game): any ...
... (n.: a troublesome child) interdate 1915-1999 (now interdated) ...
... miscarry a baby, fetus, etc.): antedate 1979 (now antedated to 1872)
...
... ppl. adj. (of a fetus): antedate 1981 (now antedated to 1961) ...
http://www.oed.com/readers/appeal.html
Mind you, link to that source somehow point to 404 page and text above doesn’t says that fetus is a child. Why did you lie about source that not even there? Did you go to that page before you said that you used it as your source?

I’m not going to repeat how Merriam Webster defines fetus again because you can scroll page up and read it if you want to again and again and again until you find where it says that fetus is a child.

Tell me John, are you enjoying being hit in your face with hard facts and being ill-treated by the truth? I don’t know for sure but it seems to me that you are some kind of sucker for punishment. I know because it’s hard for you to stick to the facts, mostly when you don’t know them in a first place, I will try to help you out so in the future you can recognize and deal with them accordingly.

I don’t care what you said or not about connection between Stalin and Hitler or if there is one present, I corrected you by stating the fact why Stalin killed his countrymen and if you can’t prove me being wrong then you are the one who is using "common tactic of the stupid".

Now John, can you prove me being wrong by providing factual evidence as to why Stalin killed his own people? Show me how mother of Daniel Hauser by denying him medical treatment is not killing her own child and where are your pro-life friends to protect an innocent life from being wasted.

If your mental capacity is not capable to produce coherent answers based on factual evidence, then everything you are going to say from now on is going to be nothing more but verbal puke and I’m going to ignore you.

 
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Old 05-22-2009, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Now lets talk about facts, shall we?
This is what Oxford English Dictionary says:
Seems you don't own the OED. I do. Here's what it says under the entry for "child".

Quote:
1.a. The unborn or newly born human being; fetus, infant.
That's Volume One, page 246.

Webster's says:

Quote:
1 a: an unborn or recently born person
So, yeah, when you say crap like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter
Child can be killed only after child was born. Don't you know that?
you just demonstrate ignorance of the meaning of the word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter
Tell me John, are you enjoying being hit in your face with hard facts and being ill-treated by the truth?
LOL! I was just going to ask if you liked being repeatedly crapped on by the truth. You've had the snot beaten out of you countless times here for one reason - you don't do your homework.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter
I don’t care what you said or not about connection between Stalin and Hitler or if there is one present, I corrected you by stating the fact why Stalin killed
You don't care what I said or what I didn't say, but then presume to "correct" me? First of all you would have to actually read what I said on the topic, and if you did that you would see that I never once alluded to a reason for Stalin killing millions. Why would I? I alluded to the tactic of diversion that you and others use in an attempt to mitigate atrocities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter
Now John, can you prove me being wrong by providing factual evidence as to why Stalin killed his own people?
Do you know how insane, or simply dishonest, you sound when you spout crap like that? I have not discussed the reasons why Stalin killed his own people. It is not a topic of discussion. Nobody is contesting it, debating it or otherwise concerning themselves with it - and then you post some reason for Stalin killing his people, which nobody contests or otherwise cares about. You then proceed to challenge others to prove you wrong? It has to be the drugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranter
If your mental capacity is not capable to produce coherent answers based on factual evidence, then everything you are going to say from now on is going to be nothing more but verbal puke and I’m going to ignore you.
Actually, you should say "If your mental capacity is not capable of producing coherent answers..."

It makes me wonder. Perhaps you don't speak English fluently. That still doesn't excuse the lies you've posted, or the insane digression into reasons for Stalin's mass murder, but it does lend insight into your faulty thought process.
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:21 PM
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I couldn’t resist kicking your ass one more time. So lets go starting with what you said

Quote:
Common tactic of the stupid. I am sure that when Stalin was called on his mass murders, he probably retorted "Look at what Hitler did. That is of course if you have enough brains to handle real life tragedy."
Lets examine your statement one word at a time
Quote:
I sure - you said which implies that you categorically know what happened when Stalin was called up
he probably - wait a minute, you just said that you know what happened.
Oh well, I will give you a benefit of the doubt and move to what you said next
Look at what Hitler did - surely you're saying in here that Hitler have had committed greater atrocities thus totally ignoring the fact that Hitler went to war with Russia and Stalin as I said killed his countrymen because he wants to.
Then you asked me the most ludicrous question:

Quote:
Where did I say that Stalin killed because of Hitler?
which is stupid because I never claimed anywhere that you said that. Can you show me where I said?
What I said was:

Quote:
Stalin was responsible for death of 42 Millions CCCP citizens but not because Hitler did something, but because he wants to and his justification was: "В имя народа" - “in the name of the people”.
If you read what I said one more time, you'll probably discover that I said something totally opposite to what you are claiming I said:

Quote:
but not because Hitler did something
You see, it so simple and all you need to do is to use your brain and to read what I said.
What the hell Am I talking about, what brain? I forgot you don't have one or you would stop making fool of yourself long time ago.

Do you want to talk about Daniel Hauser because I can't wait to kick your ass on this subject too?


Last edited by ranter; 05-22-2009 at 11:25 PM.
 
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