The President of the future.

[hs4e]

interesting thread

@muddy
may I say, if there's someone to blame for all the inequity and poverty in the world, well that's not God but his wannabe imitator, Satan. at least this is what the Bible indirectly says.

[Muddy]

OK, whew! I thought you were being literal. Thank God you weren't. hehe

[Muddy]

Originally Posted by hs4e

interesting thread

@muddy
may I say, if there's someone to blame for all the inequity and poverty in the world, well that's not God but his wannabe imitator, Satan. at least this is what the Bible indirectly says.

Well, I wasn't blaming God for anything. I was merely asking why some people (not Cricket as it turns out) attribute their success (or lack of failure) to God. Because then the question becomes, why them? What did God see or not see in the now homeless person that caused him to allow them to become homeless but not others?

The statement "There but for the grace of God go I" basically means "If it wasn't for the fact that God favors me and showed me grace, I would be in that same lowly condition." This implies that all those in less desirable life situations are there because God does not favor them and did not show them grace which creates a moral and philosophical conundrum in my mind.

By the way, if Satan is trying to imitate God, why is he causing all the inequity and poverty in the world?

[hs4e]

Originally Posted by Muddy

This implies that all those in less desirable life situations are there because God does not favor them and did not show them grace...

Uhm... I believe this is false, at least partially. What I mean is, people not favored by God are not necessarily experimenting "less desirable life situations" unless Satan played his role. "Not favored by God" may (or may not) imply "tried by Satan".

As for

Originally Posted by Muddy

if Satan is trying to imitate God, why is he causing all the inequity and poverty in the world?

Satan is indeed imitating God but only in some respects and even then in a very peculiar and hideous way. I would say that all the poverty in the world, for instance, is the result of his temporary rule over the world, which in turn a copy of the true sovereign rule of God. How come Satan rules over the world if there's a sovereign almighty God above him (in terms of authority)? Well, that's another story.

Again, these facts are derived from the Bible's teaching so this discussion is pointless if you don't consider the Bible an authority.

[John Scott]

Well, I wasn't blaming God for anything. I was merely asking why some people (not Cricket as it turns out) attribute their success (or lack of failure) to God.

Perhaps because we all could easily end up in dire straits. When somebody says "There but for the grace of God go I", the speaker is saying that he is not that different from the person suffering. It's often used interchangeably with "judge not".

This implies that all those in less desirable life situations are there because God does not favor them and did not show them grace which creates a moral and philosophical conundrum in my mind.

I do not take that implication from it, probably because in the Christian religion which I am more familiar with, grace is not earned. Nothing a person can do will earn him more grace than another.

But I doubt that most people who say that phrase mean it in the religious sense. It's like saying, "there but for dumb luck go I".

Your question does seem to raise the question of "is God fair?" An evil, bloodthirsty murderer can live a long happy life while a hard working and honest man can suffer misfortune after misfortune. Is that fair? (Assuming a god or gods exist.)

[Muddy]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Perhaps because we all could easily end up in dire straits. When somebody says "There but for the grace of God go I", the speaker is saying that he is not that different from the person suffering. It's often used interchangeably with "judge not".

I do not take that implication from it, probably because in the Christian religion which I am more familiar with, grace is not earned. Nothing a person can do will earn him more grace than another.

But I doubt that most people who say that phrase mean it in the religious sense. It's like saying, "there but for dumb luck go I".

This makes sense. I guess the phrase shouldn't be taken literally.

Originally Posted by John Scott

Your question does seem to raise the question of "is God fair?" An evil, bloodthirsty murderer can live a long happy life while a hard working and honest man can suffer misfortune after misfortune. Is that fair? (Assuming a god or gods exist.)

This of course depends on whether God (assuming a god or gods exist) actually exercises any control over people's lives. If so, and his involvement is relative to people's actions, then nope, he's not fair. If not, and anything can happen to anybody at any time (which certainly seems to be the case), then he may or may not be fair. But who would know?

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Perhaps because we all could easily end up in dire straits. When somebody says "There but for the grace of God go I", the speaker is saying that he is not that different from the person suffering. It's often used interchangeably with "judge not".



I do not take that implication from it, probably because in the Christian religion which I am more familiar with, grace is not earned. Nothing a person can do will earn him more grace than another.

But I doubt that most people who say that phrase mean it in the religious sense. It's like saying, "there but for dumb luck go I".

exactly . . .

[junction4seo]

good girl,her parents are giving more supporting, one day she will be achieve the her aim.
nice girl.

[Muddy]

Originally Posted by hs4e

Uhm... I believe this is false, at least partially. What I mean is, people not favored by God are not necessarily experimenting "less desirable life situations" unless Satan played his role. "Not favored by God" may (or may not) imply "tried by Satan".

So Satan is causing people to lose their jobs and homes? Or worse? Doesn't the Bible say that "it rains on both the righteous and unrighteous" and that "unforeseen occurrence befall us all"?

Originally Posted by hs4e

As for

Satan is indeed imitating God but only in some respects and even then in a very peculiar and hideous way. I would say that all the poverty in the world, for instance, is the result of his temporary rule over the world, which in turn a copy of the true sovereign rule of God. How come Satan rules over the world if there's a sovereign almighty God above him (in terms of authority)? Well, that's another story.

Again, these facts are derived from the Bible's teaching so this discussion is pointless if you don't consider the Bible an authority.

In what respect is Satan imitating God? Do we know when he is and when he isn't? How can God be imitated in a "peculiar and hideous way"? If Satan is ruling the world (which I grant the Bible does in fact say), how is it that his rule is in imitation of God's rule?

[hs4e]

Originally Posted by Muddy

So Satan is causing people to lose their jobs and homes? Or worse?

That's true. I believe none of that could happen if Satan was not corrupting the world in the first place.

Originally Posted by Muddy

In what respect is Satan imitating God? Do we know when he is and when he isn't? How can God be imitated in a "peculiar and hideous way"? If Satan is ruling the world (which I grant the Bible does in fact say), how is it that his rule is in imitation of God's rule?

Well, I guess Satan is not necessarily imitating God by means of his rule. His ruling capabilities must have been developed before his fall as an angel, when it is believed that he had a position of high authority.

Satan is, for instance, imitating God in the fact that he has or will have his own trinity. You can read about it in Revelations. A funny story in Genesis reveals Pharaoh's wizards imitating whatever Moses did, if you remember that.

Anyway, I as a good Christian , am not supposed to know Satan and the ways in which he imitates God, but to know God alone.

I hope you don't mind my future silence (at least for awhile) since I got an exam to pass on Friday and have to prepare :d.

[raphnix]

Originally Posted by hs4e

That's true. I believe none of that could happen if Satan was not corrupting the world in the first place.



Well, I guess Satan is not necessarily imitating God by means of his rule. His ruling capabilities must have been developed before his fall as an angel, when it is believed that he had a position of high authority.

Satan is, for instance, imitating God in the fact that he has or will have his own trinity. You can read about it in Revelations. A funny story in Genesis reveals Pharaoh's wizards imitating whatever Moses did, if you remember that.

Anyway, I as a good Christian , am not supposed to know Satan and the ways in which he imitates God, but to know God alone.

I hope you don't mind my future silence (at least for awhile) since I got an exam to pass on Friday and have to prepare :d.

You're suggesting that you know God then?

[hs4e]

Originally Posted by raphnix

You're suggesting that you know God then?

No, I don't know him (entirely). What I meant was, every Christian's goal is getting to know God (and obey him).

[Muddy]

Originally Posted by hs4e

That's true. I believe none of that could happen if Satan was not corrupting the world in the first place.



Well, I guess Satan is not necessarily imitating God by means of his rule. His ruling capabilities must have been developed before his fall as an angel, when it is believed that he had a position of high authority.

Satan is, for instance, imitating God in the fact that he has or will have his own trinity. You can read about it in Revelations. A funny story in Genesis reveals Pharaoh's wizards imitating whatever Moses did, if you remember that.

Anyway, I as a good Christian , am not supposed to know Satan and the ways in which he imitates God, but to know God alone.

I hope you don't mind my future silence (at least for awhile) since I got an exam to pass on Friday and have to prepare :d.

No worries. Good luck on the exam.

Satan has his own trinity eh? That's interesting since God having or being part of a trinity is highly debatable if not flat out unprovable. See you when you have time. We might need to move ourselves over to a new thread though so as not to drag this one totally out into left field.

[raphnix]

Are the majority of Republicans Non-Catholics? Because some philosophers observe that most Catholics are Visionary than Realist. Could that explain why their principles differ from most democrats nurtured under a devoted Catholic roof?

Just want to connect the first topic to John, Muddy and hs4e deviating discussion.

And ow! Mind to read my sig about God.

[~kev~]

Originally Posted by ScriptMan

I recently asked my friend's little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up.

She said she wanted to be President some day.

Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there, ........

I said, 'Welcome to the Republican Party.'

And I eagerly await your responses....................

It is because of this attitude that the USA will never have "real" change. The fact is, there is NO difference between the republicans and the democrats. Regardless of "who" is in office, the same laws will be passed.

If there was a "real" difference between the 2 parties, when one party came into power, the laws passed by the other party would be repealed - but that does not happen.

It has taken both parties to keep the income tax
It has taken both parties to keep the federal reserve system.
It has taken both parties to keep free trade.
It took both parties to bail out the banks.
Calls for a flat tax are ignored by both parties.

The 2 party system is an illusion. And as long as you believe it, and vote for those 2 parties, we will never have change in our government.

As for myself, I have voted straight line libertarian party and constitution party for the past 16 years. I vote that way because I want "real" change in our government.