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Old 06-23-2009, 08:26 AM
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Should Americans Continue To Fund NASA?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/0...ons/index.html

Yippee, we're going to...the moon?

Americans just spent another $450 million to launch a couple probes to, yes, the moon.

We are in debt up to our eyeballs to foreign countries yet our government continues to spend as if there's no problem?

Should we continue allowing the government to waste our money like this? (I definietely see it as a waste of money.)

Is NASA, as has been said about AIG, too big to be allowed to fail?

What will be accomplished by sending probes to the moon? It's not as if mankind will be able to just fly over to it and live there when we kill this planet. It doesn't have oxygen.

I think it's wishful thinking and a complete waste of taxpayer money that could be better spent paying off our debt to the rest of the world. (The interest alone will keep America enslaved to other countries for generations to come.)

Are our elected leaders doing what is best for us by launching rockets to the moon?
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:38 AM
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Should Americans Continue To Fund NASA?
Yes.

One of the biggest mistakes that companies make is they cut funding to their research and development division. This makes them fall behind their competition. But in this case, NASA is the research division for the entire human race.

To cut funding to NASA is to limit what the human race is possible of. That is like telling a child they can not go to school because it cost too much. The affects of "not" sending that child to school is worse and longer reaching then the short term expense.

So yea, lets cut funding to NASA and go back to living in huts and caves. Either we move forward or we stagnate and die.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:23 PM
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Cute, Kev. You make it sound like everything will disappear if Nasa dies. We won't be living in huts and caves...but we will free up a lot of money that can be put to better use, such as making sure homeless people don't freeze to death every winter or that kids go to bed without being hungry. See my point?

If you were to compare the gains against the expenses, I imagine you would see NASA to be a larger failure than the Big Three combined.

I don't see it as a worthwhile investment. As a matter of fact, what have we gotten for such an investment?
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
Cute, Kev. You make it sound like everything will disappear if Nasa dies.
And do you think the exact opposite? that if NASA is shut down then the country debt will be paid, the homeless will have a home, hunger will have food and everybody will live happily?

That way of thinking is ruled by common sense, and common sense, by its own nature is simplistic, selfish, and dangerous.

-Common sense tell us that money invested in projects that does not benefit us immediately is money wasted.
-Common sense tell us that if we elect our politicians and our lives don't improve shortly after, then those politicians are corrupt, liars and thieves.
-Common sense tell us that we are superior than our neighbours, because they are different than us.

Wars have been declared in the name of common sense, millions of people died in the name of common sense.

Don't take it bad, but you cannot rule your life by common sense, you should do it by deep reasoning.

One person can make a mistake but luckily your country is not ruled by one person, it is ruled by many in a democratic system. Many people decide how the budget is spent, people who studied about what they decide upon. And that doesn't make the democratic system perfect, but at least makes it better than the others.

I'll repeat the same thing I told you on another thread, to which I still did not get an answer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hades
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Farlow
How do you feel about taxes you've paid being used for something that conflicts with your personal beliefs?
I feel good about it, and I'm glad it happens. It's called democracy.

You vote for people to represent you, and those people make decisions based on what they think it's best for the people who voted them. If you do not approve how they make those decisions, you always have the option of not voting them.

You also have the option to live in a country where democracy does not exist and only minorities get benefits (ie: Venezuela, Cuba...), but I prefer a democracy with an imperfect government, where our leaders do things opposed to my beliefs. It's the lesser of two evils I think.
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:18 PM
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Kill NASA off and let private industry take over. Look at the progress Virgin Galactic has made in just a few short years. In that same period NASA has largely done nothing. Make space travel a business and treat it as such.
 
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
If you were to compare the gains against the expenses, I imagine you would see NASA to be a larger failure than the Big Three combined.

I don't see it as a worthwhile investment. As a matter of fact, what have we gotten for such an investment?
I don't suppose you have a cell phone? Do you use GPS in your car?
Ever use Google maps satellite view? Never wanted to see a weather forcast?
 
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Old 06-24-2009, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
Cute, Kev. You make it sound like everything will disappear if Nasa dies. We won't be living in huts and caves...but we will free up a lot of money that can be put to better use,
Someone gives you some money to go to college on. But instead, you go out and give it to homeless people, and donate it to charities,,,,, - so you do not go to college.

Instead of getting a good paying job as an engineer making 100,000 a year, you get a job at minimum wage bagging groceries.

So instead of paying taxes on a nice car, paying property taxes on that nice house, paying sales taxes on items that you buy - and those taxes going to help the homeless, your living off of food stamps and low income housing.

You would have been better served in the long run to take that money, use it get yourself an education, get a good job and pay taxes.

The money that the government gives to NASA has a ripple effect through our society. Kids go to college in the hopes of going into space. Those educated people then invent stuff that affects our society.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
See my point?
Sorry, no I do not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
such as making sure homeless people don't freeze to death every winter
Have you ever heard of a space blanket? It reflects 90% of your body heat - invented for the space program.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
or that kids go to bed without being hungry.
Well, their parents should have gone to college instead of giving their money to homeless people. Maybe they will use those memories to better themselves and their family.
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:23 AM
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Hades, living by common sense has gotten this world quite a way since the stone age, don't you think? And if you want an answer you must first ask the question.

Zap, I'm not saying there haven't been advances that have benefited us, I'm saying that the return on investment has been very limited considering the vast amount of money being spent. And no, I don't have GPS.

Ah yes, Kev, space blankets for the homeless. Great idea. Who's going to fund that? And connecting NASA with going to college is a bit of a stretch. All I asked was should we continue to fund NASA. Even if we don't, people will still become educated and get those better-paying jobs. It's not like the world will come to a standstill and society will begin to revert to the dark ages.

And Kev, did you ever stop to consider that some people don't have the funding to go to college? Some must go to work and earn a living to support their family straight out of high school, assuming they even stay in school long enough to graduate. Not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

We are a sorely poor society when we have no consideration or compassion for our fellow man. That's one reason this world is in the financial mess it's in.
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Old 06-24-2009, 10:01 AM
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And Kev, did you ever stop to consider that some people don't have the funding to go to college? Some must go to work and earn a living to support their family straight out of high school,
Its called community college and night classes. I did it for 4 years at Lamar College in Port Arthur, Texas.

Besides college, there are certification classes people can take to better themselves.

NASA and other government funded projects have been the corner stone of modern civilization. Everything from Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand funding Christopher Columbus in 1492, to the atomic bomb, to vaccines, have been funded by one government or the other.

Lets say that funding is cut to NASA. While some other country continues to do research and development. And somewhere in there a weapon is discovered that can destroy entire cities, kill millions of people in a split second,,,,. Who is the world leader then?

That would be like bringing a modern weapon to a sword fight.

Some of the discoveries that the people at NASA find help keep the USA secure and a world leader and super power.

So we would rather let our enemies pass us up, develop better weapons, better space ships, better planes, all to help some homeless people?

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

When some crazy leader - like whats going on in north korea - starts talking about nuclear war, I can say to myself - "the USA has the best military in the world, go ahead and bring it on." The engineers at NASA have a part in all of that.

Do you want to hide in fear from leader of north korea, or do you wanna drop a cruise missile on his head? If you say - "better him the us" - then you better keep funding NASA.
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:10 PM
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Cute, Kev. You make it sound like everything will disappear if NASA dies.
That's because it would. NASA is like the worlds leading research center for space exploration.

Take away NASA, and research into space exploration comes to a screeching halt.

Take away NASA, and you lose your cellphone, satellite TV, weather reports, etc...
 
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Old 06-24-2009, 12:17 PM
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In fact, some 30,000 secondary applications of space innovations have been tracked by NASA historians and technology transfer groups.
The article says it all. Do the maths and you will see the space programme has more than paid for itself.
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Old 06-24-2009, 04:58 PM
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Kev, sorry, but I think the U.S. has already fallen behind and will fall even further behind, whether we keep pouring money into space exploration or not.

I seriously doubt that cutting funding to NASA will mean all the satellites will fall out of the sky.

Hide from North Korea? Please. The U.S. is working with other nations to give him a swat he won't forget. It would be the end for that guy if he lobs a nuke anywhere but on his own head.

The Collider project in Switzerland is going to come back online soon. What if they discover a way to develop a weapon that is worse than nukes? Do you think the U.S will actually have any control over it? Nope!

What do you think will come of these two probes launched toward the moon? Think they'll find signs of ice on the Dark Side?

If they do, what difference do you think that will make to anyone here?

I say it was a waste of money. (Well, not completely. They have to show they are actually trying to accomplish something so they can secure their next round of funding from the taxpayers...)
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Old 06-24-2009, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
I seriously doubt that cutting funding to NASA will mean all the satellites will fall out of the sky.
It's precisely because of past funding that the satellites are there in the first place.
They're not going to fall out of the sky, but the future technologies that would be lost by not funding NASA now, will be non existent in future "skies" if funding is cut.
That's where the loss is. Difficult to quantify because these things haven't been invented yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
The Collider project in Switzerland is going to come back online soon. What if they discover a way to develop a weapon that is worse than nukes? Do you think the U.S will actually have any control over it? Nope!
You're actually reinforcing the opposing viewpoint here.
You're making a great case for why this funding needs to stay in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
What do you think will come of these two probes launched toward the moon? Think they'll find signs of ice on the Dark Side?
If they do, what difference do you think that will make to anyone here?
Again... Difficult to predict what impact that will have. But, with all the resources (iron, aluminum, titanium) on the moon, claimed by the first group to go there and take them, who do you want to begin mining first?
 
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:31 PM
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well I say yes the Americans need to continue to fund NASA ... with out NASA how are we going to discover space and its elements.
 
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:09 AM
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Mining the moon, huh? That's going to be an expensive proposition when you factor in transporting the minerals back here, not to mention figuring out a way to keep the miners up there. Or do you suppose we'll use robots by then?
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/0...ons/index.html

...We are in debt up to our eyeballs to foreign countries yet our government continues to spend as if there's no problem?
We are in debt to other countries? How many countries have WE given money to and written off THEIR debt? How many other countries have WE been giving massive amounts of aid to? How much AID have we given to North Korea to NOT make Nukes only to have them up the anty when they want more aid? *(They need to be cut off completely).

I think the universe should continue to be explored. It is a far better investement than bailing out the people that voted for me. I wish he would stop with writing checks my Great, Great, Great, Grand kids can't cash. Our elected officials did not even READ what they signed! That's TREASON IMHO. In other words; Our represnetatives have ceased to represent US. Talk about taxation without representation.

I would have most certainly given the money to NASA than AIG or GM and especially not Bank of America.

Iran is doing the right thing. They're standing up for what they believe in.

We need to explore other planets before crazy third world countries nuke this one - we may just need another place to live.

(Just a rant- LOL) -- I'm going back to photography now

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Old 06-25-2009, 10:36 AM
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I'm a proponent for limited government, but I believe NASA is a good investment (as long as there is some vision/goal driving all those engineers to solve new problems).
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:28 PM
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Completely agree with ya, Bob, I think the bailout bills were nothing but an illegal ursurption of the taxpayer funds to big corporations. Sure would like to know how much Obama and congress got in kickbacks and helping hands...

Space exploration? I'm not so sure it's a good use of the money. Even if we discover life on another planet, the human body does not live long enough for any of us to make the trip. But it is money put to better use than the bailout bills.

Of course we are in debt to other nations. We dismiss trillions of dollars the US has given to everyone else but when it comes time for a little help in kind, ha! Especially when it comes to China. It's not enough that the US has fed the rest of the world and saved their rearends in wars countless times. When we need a bit of help, who cares? Then they bemoan that their economies are hurting because they are so connected to the US economy, bunch of whiners.

I'd like to see the US get more into protectionist policies and start taking care of us here at home. We can't help anyone else if we can't even help ourselves...
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:43 PM
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I'd like to see the US get more into protectionist policies and start taking care of us here at home. We can't help anyone else if we can't even help ourselves...
Problem is...

Protectionist = Isolationist

And, if the US is a business, it's a business without customers.
 
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:28 AM
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Yes, Zap. because we've allowed it to become a global economy.

Gee, I sure miss the days when we did business with our neighbors right here in the good ol' US of A, when the USA was good...

But in a global economy we need certain minerals and chemicals from other lands that we can't find here to make certain products that we ship overseas. But when China begins instituting policys that protect their own industries while we don't, such as pricing Chinese-mined minerals to their own countrymen at hundreds of dollars per ton less than they will sell it to us, isn't that protectionist? (That was reported in the Wall Street Journal the other day. I'd look it up but I'm at the library using their junk computers because my laptop is down for the count right now and I only get an hour a day here.)

China gives factories a break on their goods, which they then send to the US, which reach the consumer at prices much less than the very same goods made in America, because of the difference in raw material costs, and people will think they are saving money by buying the lower-priced item, when all they are doing is killing their country and helping support China.

But I'm not even going to try to educate anyone about stuff like that. It falls on deaf ears.

Protectionism is not good in a global economy, I agree, but we need to make sure that no country has protectionist policies to make it work.
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