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Old 07-10-2009, 08:08 AM
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Here we go again: AIG Getting Ready To Give Out More Bonuses.

Just seen this:

AP Source: AIG consults administration on bonuses

By STEPHEN BERNARD, AP Business Writer Stephen Bernard, Ap Business Writer – 1 hr 1 min ago

NEW YORK – American International Group Inc. is consulting with the federal government about its plans to pay millions of dollars in retention incentives and bonuses, a person familiar with the situation said.

AIG is working with the Obama administration's compensation czar, Kenneth R. Feinberg, to ensure the government and the insurer are on the same page before it pays out remaining bonuses due to employees tied to 2008 contracts, according to the person, who requested anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the talks.

The latest installment of bonus payments is scheduled to begin as early as next week.

New York-based AIG faced intense public and Congressional criticism in March when it paid out hundreds of millions of dollars in retention bonuses to employees months after receiving a bailout from the government.

Some of the bonuses AIG is planning to pay out were promised to employees in 2008, before the government stepped in to ensure AIG would not collapse. Additional retention payments were awarded in an effort to keep executives from leaving the company after the government's initial bailout.

In September, the government provided AIG with an $85 billion rescue package amid the mushrooming credit crisis. In return, the government took about an 80 percent stake in the New York-based insurance giant. Since then, the government has provided additional rounds of support. AIG's available loan package now totals $182.5 billion, though it has not tapped all of the funds.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090710/...us_aig_bonuses


Should companies that receive bailout money from the taxpayers be able to toss out millions of dollars in bonuses to their leadership?

I own my own company yet have never been able to give myself a bonus of even a hundred dollars! This personally angers me that they are trying to get away with this.
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Old 07-10-2009, 09:26 AM
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Here is a more detailed article about it, with dollar figures.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/10/news...ion=2009071009
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Old 07-12-2009, 12:20 AM
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Exactly who is it that is getting away with it? If, again if being a big word, but if the CEO, CFO, and other chief executives were giving themselves outrageous bonuses while the company crumbled around them and other employees were forced out of work or to take pay cuts then I would be in complete agreement.

However, a company that hires employees, be them executive level or blue color level and goes into a contract with these employees they are obligated to do one of two things, declare bankruptcy to get out of the contracts if they can, or honor those contracts unless the employee themselves violated the contract.

If you as a business owner entered into a contract with a customer, you do such and such for this amount of work and will be payed upon completion, you then fulfill your end of the contract and provide the service, then the customer says no I am not going to pay the contract and then the government(President) comes in and tells you that they do not have to and you are not allowed recourse. How would you feel?
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Old 07-12-2009, 08:43 AM
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If a boat is sinking, are you willing to help the crew if they need to, to get a chance to fix it, or are you jumping out of the board with your suitcase in the rescue boat? Are you willing to help women and children getting on rescue boats or helicopter first before you can save your own life?
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Old 07-12-2009, 03:44 PM
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Hey there Natural!...

Sorry having some trouble following that analogy here :-) Course I just woke up so that could be it too...
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Old 07-12-2009, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
Hey there Natural!...

Sorry having some trouble following that analogy here :-) Course I just woke up so that could be it too...
LOL ;-)
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Old 07-12-2009, 04:03 PM
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Oh!! Why isn't our first question "What the hell is a pay Czar?!?!" Since when is it kosher for this country to have a freakin Czar that is only answerable to the President in this country in control of whatever the President decides???

Is it not true that even cabinet members have to be approved by Congress? Yet here we are with over 30 Czars that answer only to the President, are assigned by the President and put in control of whatever the President independently decides.

Rather than being concerned why a company is fulfilling its contractual obligations, we, in my opinion should be more concerned that we have a government now that is making independent corporate/business choices and doing so without congressional debate or approval. Checks and balances are disappearing more and more every day.
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Old 07-12-2009, 05:13 PM
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If these bonuses were performance-based, I would say AIG can get out of paying these bonuses, because the performance has been lackluster at best.

But these are retention bonuses, which basically is the same thing - why would they want to retain people who appear to have done such a terrible job?

Especially if it means using taxpayer funds to do so?

Is Obama the King of czars? He seems to have a czar for just about everything but common sense in government. Where's the Accountability Czar? That's one I'd like to see created.

We receive monthly accounting statements for our bank accounts and credit card usage. Why can't we get a monthly accounting by our own government to the people they supposedly work for, explaining in detail the expenditures and what they were for?

And to think Warren Buffet recently called for Obama to create yet another stimulus package.

After all, the first one worked so well...all those jobs 'saved'...

To that idea I say you can't expect different results when you continue to do the same thing. Throwing money at the problem hasn't worked, so we should throw even more money at it?

Great idea...

I don't think Obama knows what to do to turn things around, or perhaps he doesn't want to turn anything around?
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Old 07-12-2009, 05:49 PM
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Before we say that the retention or performance based bonuses should not be paid due to lack of performance, it is possible that the company as a whole is doing piss poor while individual sections or departments have increased. Just as it was possible that way back when I was the manager of the Electronics Department of Service Merchandise my personal department performed a consistent 24-32% increase of business as the rest of the company went down the tubes, so it is possible they are deserving, you are talking a very small amount of people that work for this large company.

The main thing to keep in mind, these are contracts, and to give the government unfettered ability to come in and arbitrarily disregard this countries contract law is a destruction of our entire system and far exceeds any authority the executive branch was ever intended to have.

As for you last sentence, "perhaps he doesn't want to turn anything around" if you take over the monetary system, the corporate system you control the country, why would he want to turn things around if his goal is in line with what he was taught to do? (See Saul Alinsky and the Alinsky Method) (See Acorn and its vast number of parts)
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Old 07-13-2009, 05:21 PM
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When the people elect idiots into office, what do you really expect? Who do I blame? I blame everyone that voted democrat or republican.
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:21 PM
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Hey there Kev,

I can relate to what you are saying, no doubt. However, not voting on a person simply because of their party affiliation is just as bad as voting for one just because of their party affiliation.

Best rule of thumb is to vote for the person and their moral character and actions they have performed regardless of what party they happen to be part of. In other words, vote for the person, not the party
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegamerslink View Post
Hey there Kev,

I can relate to what you are saying, no doubt. However, not voting on a person simply because of their party affiliation is just as bad as voting for one just because of their party affiliation.
The party leaders tell your elected officials how to vote. If they vote against the "leader" of the party, their reelection funds are pulled.

So its either vote as your told, or the party will not give you any money for your reelection.

That is why there are straight line party votes. Because all of the elected officials in one party is told to vote one way, and the other party is told to vote the other way.

It creates an "illusion" of a 2 party system.

But when the important issues come up, such as bailing out the banks, both "parties" come together and vote as one.

So I blame the people that vote for puppets. Which are the people that vote democrat and republican. Because your elected official is a puppet of the party they belong to.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~kev~ View Post
The party leaders tell your elected officials how to vote. If they vote against the "leader" of the party, their reelection funds are pulled.

So its either vote as your told, or the party will not give you any money for your reelection.
According to that theory regardless of affiliation, Libertarian, Republican, Democrat, or even Independent you fall within the same conditions, those that have financed your being elected pull the strings for hope of future funding for re-election.

I know your point, and those that lack the backbone or moral character to vote their conscience rather than vote what they think will get them re-elected best should lose their position by the people that voted them in, the problem is, that most do not take the time to look at what their voting record is, or ask them why they voted the way that they did.

While you are right, those that are in the major parties are motivated more because of the party funding available, the same holds true for all elected officials that receive funds from corporations, independent people, and other organizations.

So how do we fix that system? Require that those that run for office use only their own money? Or perhaps not be allowed to accept donations from corporations or organizations and a maximum of individual funding of a certain amount? That last one is supposed to be how it is now, yet we saw clearly how well that was manipulated by George Soros and MoveOn.org and Obama's campaign, even funds from other countries, yet we do nothing to require it to be answered for?
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:30 AM
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Thegamerslink in our country we don't have the problem of donations from corporations or organizations and a maximum of individual funding, because regarding a new law made in 1995, companies are not allowed anymore to make donations for political parties.

Here how it works:
Physical people can make donation up to 4600 euros
Candidates can use their personal money to finance their compaign
Candidates can borrow money from financial establisments
Candidates receive after the election from the taxpayers an amount of money per vote from .23 euro to 1.22 depending of the kind of the election and population.

Not to be critical, so far in France it is more democratic than US and reduce corruption.
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:07 AM
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The corporate and organization funds are the largest problem I am thinking in our process. Campaign reform was supposed to maximize the amount that could be donated by individuals as well as corporations. The problem is the dishonesty that took place during our last presidential election.

Obama was receiving uncountable donations from the Internet in the amounts legally below the maximum, many of these came from Howdy Doody, Mickey Mouse, Goofy Jones, and so on, another violation of our campaign finance law was the fact that countless 10's of thousands came from donors from over seas. The election was clearly bought. As for reviewing and doing anything about it, it was decided because the amount of the donations were so massive it wouldn't be feasible for the Campaign Oversight Commitee to be able to do the accounting, and the ends would only be fines, no bearing on the election results. Very sad state of affairs.

You may be right in ways, doing things the way you are saying does sound better.
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