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Old 07-20-2009, 08:26 AM
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A bit of truth about Obama's Health Care Reform

Obama Health Plan to Cover 12 Million Illegals

Sunday, July 19, 2009 6:32 PM

By: David A. Patten


On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens when they successfully defeated a Republican-backed amendment, offered by Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized health care under the proposed plan backed by House Democrats and President Barack Obama.

The House Ways and Means Committee nixed the Heller amendment by a 26-to-15 vote along straight party lines, and followed this action by passing the 1,018-page bill early Friday morning by a 23-to-18 margin, with three Democrats voting against the plan.

The Democratic plan will embrace Obama’s vision of bringing free government medical care to more than 45 million uninsured people in America – a significant portion of whom are illegal aliens.

According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, costs under the Obama plan being proposed by the House will saddle citizens with $1.04 trillion in new federal outlays over the next decade.

Congressional Democrats and Obama have argued that their health plan is necessary to contain rising health care costs.

But, last Thursday, CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf testified before the Senate Budget Committee and warned lawmakers that the proposed “legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs."

A key factor increasing costs is that Democratic plan provides for blanket coverage to as much as 15 percent of the U.S. population not currently insured, including illegals.

Democrats had insisted throughout the health-care reform debate that illegals would be ineligible for the so-called public option plan that is to be subsidized by taxpayers.

"We're not going to cover undocumented aliens, undocumented workers," Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, told reporters in May. "That's too politically explosive."

Republicans, however, point out that the Democrats, by refusing to accept the Heller amendment, would deny health agencies from conducting simple database checks to verify citizenship. Many states give illegals driver licenses, which will be sufficient to get free health care under the plan.

Critics also contend that millions of illegals who already have counterfeit Social Security cards or other fraudulent documents. There is no enforcement mechanism in the legislation, experts say, to prevent illegals who use fake IDs to obtain jobs from also obtaining taxpayer-subsidized health insurance.

GOP representatives introduced the amendment to provide a way to weed out non-citizens from the program.

A description of the amendment on Heller's Web site state it would "better screen applicants for subsidized health care to ensure they are actually citizens or otherwise entitled to it."

The Web post added, "The underlying bill is insufficient for the purpose of preventing illegal aliens from accessing the bill’s proposed benefits, as it does not provide mechanisms allowing those administering the program to ensure illegal aliens cannot access taxpayer-funded subsidies and benefits."

The Heller amendment would have required that individuals applying for the public health care option would be subject to two systems used to verify immigration status already in use by the government: The Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program.

The two systems cross-reference Social Security numbers and employment information to establish whether an individual is a U.S. citizen.

Critics: Free Health Care Means More Illegals

A recent Rasmussen Reports poll found that an overwhelming 80 percent of Americans oppose covering illegals in any public health care bill.

Anti-immigration activists say the availability of low-cost benefits, including health insurance and in-state tuition, will only lure more immigrants to come to the United States.

Political analyst Dick Morris, in his recently released best-selling book “Catastrophe”, warns that giving illegal free health care will lead to a flood of new illegals who can take advantage of such a benefit not offered in their home countries.

William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration, agrees with that sentiment, writing, "Each state and federal elected official must know that illegal aliens should not be given licenses, in-state tuition, mortgages, bank accounts, welfare, or any other benefit short of emergency medical care and law enforcement accommodations before they are deported."

But a small fraction of illegals end up deported, as many make widespread use of fake IDs to easily gain access to government benefits programs.

"Experts suggest that approximately 75 percent of working-age illegal aliens use fraudulent Social Security cards to obtain employment," wrote Ronald W. Mortensen in a recent Center for Immigration Studies research paper. Mortensen says one of the big misconceptions about illegals is that they are undocumented.

James R. Edwards Jr., co-author of The Congressional Politics of Immigration Reform, recently wrote on National Review Online that "it's hard to envision how health reform can avoid tripping the immigration booby trap."

Edwards says none of the legislation under consideration actually requires any state, federal, or local agency to check the immigration status of those who apply for the program.

The assumption is that companies have vetted their employees to ensure they are eligibility for legal employment – a difficult task for employers given the active market in fraudulent documents. Thus Edwards maintains "some of the money distributed … inevitably would go to illegal aliens."

The estimates of illegal aliens in the United States without health insurance vary. The most commonly cited statistic, attributed to the Center for Immigration Statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau, holds that 15 percent to 22 percent of the nation's 46 million uninsured are illegal aliens. That would be between 6.9 million and 10.1 million people. During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama claimed the nation United States has 12 million or more undocumented aliens.

John Sheils of the Lewin Group, a health care consulting firm owned by UnitedHealth Group, recently told National Public Radio that about 6.1 million illegals – about half of all illegals in the United States – lack documentation and therefore would not be legally eligible for benefits under the current health care reforms.

Sheils says the other half of the nation's illegals – 5 million to 6 million – use false documents to obtain on-the-books employment. Many of them are already insured under their employers' plans, he added.

"A lot of those people are getting employer health benefits as part of their compensation," Sheils told NPR.

Certainly, some contend that undocumented workers who are gainfully employed and receiving benefits such as health insurance are contributing to society. But the fact remains that, once equipped with a fake ID, a person in the United States illegally can obtain both a job and the benefits that go with it.

Estimates of the cost of providing illegals with medical care vary. Most uninsured illegals who need medical attention obtain it from hospital emergency rooms. And several states are already straining under the huge burden of paying for the health costs of illegal aliens.

According to the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), in 2004 California's estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care was $1.4 billion. Texas estimated its cost at $850 million annually, and Arizona at $400 million.

Non-border states shoulder heavy burdens as well. Virginia's annual cost of providing health care for undocumented workers is approximately $100 million per year, FAIR reports, while Florida's health care cost is about $300 million annually.

One of the ironies of the proposed legislation is that it would fine American citizens who opt not to purchase insurance coverage, but would exempt illegals from such fines. This is presumably due to the fact that they are not supposed to participate in the program anyway.

Even if no illegals were likely to benefit from health care reform, Democrats have made it clear that amnesty is the next item on their ambitious legislative agenda.

"I've got to do health care, I've got to do energy, and then I'm looking very closely at doing immigration," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., declared in June.

Reid explained the urgent need for amnesty in terms very similar to those that Democrats have used to press for health care reform. "We have an immigration system that's broken and needs repair," Reid said.

Immigration expert Edwards, for one, says health-care reform may itself need serious medical attention before it is healthy enough pass through Congress.

"The American people may soon realize how much health reform will benefit immigrants and cost the native-born," he writes. "When that happens, the volatile politics of immigration could derail universal health care."

© 2009 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

Source: Newsmax


Obama's Health care reform is just bad news all the way around for Americans.

Not only do I believe that it will, indeed, increase illegal immigration (who wouldn't want free health care?), it will also make the waiting time in emergency rooms twice as long as it currently is, put even more pressure on doctors who will see an even heavier caseload, more people will use their 'new' health care benefits than do now (why not? It's free!), meaning even worse waiting times at emergency rooms and clinics than mentioned above, and...decisions will be removed from doctors.

I seen on CNN this morning that Obama and his team are creating a government office that will dictate what medical care can and cannot be performed on patients, in an effort to control costs.

Do you want someone besides your own doctor determining what medical you do or do not receive?

This is the truth about Obama's Health Care Reform.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:34 AM
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Government-run health care -- combining all the compassion of the IRS with the efficiency of your local DMV office
 
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:53 AM
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So we are going to have to pay for health insurance for 12+ million criminals? Oh joy, I just can not wait to give 90% of my pay check to the government.

And who do I blame? If you voted democrat or republican, I blame you. Put the blame where it belongs. On the shoulders on an uneducated voting populace.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:09 PM
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Here a little bit more info:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health...FtYWNoYWxsZW4-
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:44 AM
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Wow, DEMOCRATS are calling for the treasury to be more open about where the bailout money is going?

I am shocked.

Or maybe not. Perhaps those few Democrats are actually Republican-minded behind closed doors...
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Old 07-21-2009, 09:03 AM
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"a rush to act on overhauling the nation's $2.4 trillion system of medical care."

Another article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/..._care_overhaul

I am wondering why this rush to pass a bill of $2.4 trillion...Is there another bill that contains thousands of pages to vote on in a few hours like they did for the bailout?
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:37 AM
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Yes, as Obama says, now is the time to act.

Let's make sure this ill and outrageously over-priced reform package is defeated.

And let's hold another Presidential election this coming November and kick his butt out! Like he's said before, there's no time to wait...so why wait until 2012? 2009 is fine with me.
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Old 07-21-2009, 06:08 PM
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And let's hold another Presidential election this coming November and kick his butt out! Like he's said before, there's no time to wait...so why wait until 2012? 2009 is fine with me.
Yes. Let's run full steam ahead to elect another knob to take his place.
That way, we can trick ourselves into thinking things have changed when nothing has.
 
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ~kev~ View Post
(...)And who do I blame? If you voted democrat or republican, I blame you. Put the blame where it belongs. On the shoulders on an uneducated voting populace.
Right. Obviously our only hope is an independent. I can understand why people vote dem or rep due to the media hype, however, but we have to just turn that crap off, completely if necessary, so that we can think for ourselves.

Last edited by Atom; 07-22-2009 at 10:37 AM. Reason: I think that is supposed to be 'independant' but I am not sure and I am not going to spend the time trying to resolve such
 
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Old 07-22-2009, 10:37 AM
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Last edited by Atom; 07-22-2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason: a trivial issue.
 
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:41 AM
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Atom, we are also battling the older folks in this country who have voted right down a party line their entire lives. My dad is a staunch Democrat. He has never voted anything but Democrat, no matter who is running.

He claims it has served him well to vote Democrat all his life. But he also told me when I was young to get a job with a company and stay there. No, it won't pay all that well to begin with, but if I stayed I'd get promoted and earn better pay and be able to work my way up in the company and become something.

Yeah, and he's thinking the same as he did fifty years ago, before we invented a word like 'downsizing', before we had major hostile corporate takeovers, he's thinking of a time when people were valued, before we were thought of as disposable tools, when you got more than a gold watch and a kick in the rear when you retired, back when the company was around long enough for you to retire from a career with the same company.

He's thinking of a time that no longer exists, and his political thinking is no different.

Once we finally get rid of all the older folks through attrition, who vote according to party lines without even considering there may be a better option, we will finally be able to enact changes that benefit all of us.

We also must rid ourselves of a two-party system and include more than just two parties. We deserve a better choice than the lesser of two evils.

And we deserve a choice that is not selected for us by the mainstream media. All candidates should have equal and unbiased air time no matter the station. News shows, commentaries and commentators, talk shows on television, radio or online, bloggers and late night comedians should be banned from making any sort of suggestion as to who they prefer, barred from any attempt to sway the vote prior to the election.

What we learn about any candidate online or through mainstream or print media should be as unbiased and equal as possible. Hollywood needs to shut up.

The decision should be left to the public, not selected for them.

Talking heads should not be allowed to determine who we vote for, and that includes Steven Colbert and Jon Stewart.
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