The Alternate-Universe Party

[StrongInTheArm]

Michael Tomasky describes the Republican Party as being the Alternate-Universe Party because they seem so contrary.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ma-citizenship

And on climate change, of course, most deny its existence, and all deny that human activity has played any role in it whatsoever.

Obama has been compared to Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Charles Manson, a monkey (of course) and, in an image promoted last week, a witchdoctor – by a neurosurgeon no less, who has been a big opponent of healthcare reform.

Most conspicuously, there's the growing "birther" movement, people who believe that Obama is not a US citizen, doesn't meet the constitutional requirements for the presidency and must therefore be impeached. He was born in Hawaii in 1961. That makes him a citizen. His campaign last year released a copy of his birth certificate. But of course, for these folks, it's a forgery. There's even a video afoot "demonstrating" how the document was faked.

Healthcare is socialism. Saving the auto industry is liberal fascism. Trying to halt global warming is both. Negotiating with Iran – I didn't even get to foreign policy – is proof that Obama wants to obliterate the US. And to top it all off, the Great Obliterator isn't even a citizen.

From an outsider's perspective I ask myself does he have a point and can the Republicans ever be taken seriously with such odd ideas at the heart of their thinking?

It would be good to have an American perspective on this article by Michael Tomasky.

[Zap]

Oh Strongy, Strongy, Strongy. Tsk. Tsk.

Why, oh, why, did you have to mention the birth certificate?

You may as well ask if 9/11 was an inside job and if Obama may have had something to do with it.

[StrongInTheArm]

Well this, from the article, got me thinking:

You might think people in positions of responsibility would try to reel these folks in a little. Instead, in the House of Representatives, a few Republicans have introduced a bill to require future presidential candidates to prove their citizenship, starting in 2012, when Obama will be seeking re-election.

It seems they still can't accept Obama as their legitimate President. It just seems they are giving 'bad losers' a bad name.

[Hades]

Being against something is always politically more elegant than supporting its opposite.

When was the last time you saw people saying "I support abortion"? they like more to say "I'm against the oppressing church".
And when did you see the others saying "I support having babies?"? instead they say: "I'm against killing".

You will hardly ever see people making a demonstration to say "we support X", instead you will see them saying "we refuse Y", where Y is the opposite of X. Because in western societies being opposed to something means being superior to it, and people always want to be superior.

Of course some take it to the ridiculous extreme. You see how they are tagging healthcare as socialism, saving the auto industry as liberal fascism... negotiating with other countries is being their b*tch. They just want to build icons to be opposed to.

[Allen Farlow]

State officials in Hawaii again declare Obama's birth certificate to be real.

It's amazing what you can accomplish once you are sworn in as president. Favors and money flying all over the place, me thinks.

[Hades]

Do you have any information to backup those words or you're just trolling?
Did you read the politics forums rules?

Originally Posted by http://www.v7n.com/forums/politics/66742-political-forum-rules-guidelines.html

1. Enter at Your Own Risk - Controversial topics can become heated very quickly. If you want to participate in the political forums, there will be times that you are going to need thick skin.

2. Stating Facts - If you are stating something as fact, take the time to research the topic, and include credible references to back up your statement.

3. Stating Opinions - If you are stating something as your opinion, make it clear that it is only your opinion, and explain why you feel that way.

4. Misrepresenting The Words of Other Posters - One way for a debate to get out of hand very quickly is by misrepresenting what others have said in their posts. A lot of this can be prevented simply by using the quote button. If you are not sure what someone meant, take the time to ask them to explain further, rather than assuming or using your own interpretation of their words.

5. Hit and Run Posting - If you decide to join a topic, don't just post and run, without being prepared to back up what you have said, when others respond.

6. Choose Your Words Carefully - Try to remember that there are real people, with real feelings, on the other end of the monitor who are reading your words. Use respect at all times!

7. Step Away - If a topic has reached the point that you are about to say things that you may regret later, don't be afraid to respectfully excuse yourself from the conversation for a bit, while you take time to regain your composure.

bolds were added.

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While I understand and respect that you don't want to recognize Obama as your president, I would at least expect that you state your opinions or "facts" in a correct manner and following the forum rules.

[Allen Farlow]

Hades, exactly what problem do you have with my above post?

'Me thinks' implies it is my own opinion, does it not? What else?

[Hades]

I might be wrong (and in that case I would like an authority of the forum to rectify me), but I am convinced that your thread is inflammatory and doesn't have any value for discussion other than empty bashing without backup.

Again, if I am wrong I would like to be corrected and in that case I apologize for criticizing your post.

[Allen Farlow]

I understand your point, Hades, and if admin feels the same way I would like to invite them to remove this entire thread.

I smell something fishy and I'm nowhere near a dock.

And not to be confrontational, Hades, in reply to rule #6 I would ask you to please refer to rule #1...I do not believe I was disrespectful to anyone.

...and no apology needed, Hades. We're good!

[Hades]

I'm not asking to delete your thread, but at least you could remove "Here's another joke for you: ..." from the title. Remember that there is a lot of people here on this community and more than one could have feelings hurt by inflammatory posts.

[Allen Farlow]

Uh-hum. Rule #1 states...

[StrongInTheArm]

Hades: I think Allen starting this separate thread speaks volumes about his views. I don't think he has done anything wrong. Although refusing to backup his accusation with any evidence is tantamount to drive by slander. His fobbing you off with his "me thinks" excuse is irksome and bad debating in my opinion.

But what annoys me is that I started a thread about his very same attitude, which he ignored. Consequently because this thread is so similar to my thread I'm going to merge the two. Hope you don't mind Allen.

Merged.

[South]

Wow, reading mr Tomasky's ideas doesn't smack of selective understanding at all does it? Every idea shown is from the liberal political playbook and has been used in exact form for decades.

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

Michael Tomasky describes the Republican Party as being the Alternate-Universe Party because they seem so contrary.

So we name call to belittle the idea of alternate views as "thoughts of the un-illuminated". Has no effect on free thinkers but the "herd" takes his side afraid of being among those he makes fun of. It amazes me that people don't see the pattern after so long.

And on climate change, of course, most deny its existence, and all deny that human activity has played any role in it whatsoever.

No. Many of us just believe that before we impose regulations which will shut down businesses and allow the government to shove massive industry tax hikes and silly cap and tax policies down our throats that we need to stall the hysteria and look at things. The earth has climate cycles and always has. That's the only scientific consensus so far. As an American conservative I take the same position as many others. If there is in fact both a problem and a solution we'll approach it in a sane manner. That doesn't mean letting the government use the hysteria of it to pull in frantic tax dollars to fund pet projects with, or as the current administration put it, they "don't want to let a good crisis go to waste".

Obama has been compared to Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Charles Manson, a monkey (of course) and, in an image promoted last week, a witchdoctor – by a neurosurgeon no less, who has been a big opponent of healthcare reform.

Bush was compared to Hitler, a monkey, and called a village idiot. They claim to this day that he was in on 9-11. People who disagree with presidents compare them to bad things. He feels the republicans own the franchise on that? Was he asleep the past eight years?

Most conspicuously, there's the growing "birther" movement, people who believe that Obama is not a US citizen, doesn't meet the constitutional requirements for the presidency and must therefore be impeached. He was born in Hawaii in 1961. That makes him a citizen. His campaign last year released a copy of his birth certificate. But of course, for these folks, it's a forgery. There's even a video afoot "demonstrating" how the document was faked.

I only started paying real attention to the birther movement recently as it's grown. Until anyone finds meat on it it's just another conspiricy theory. I get amused at the indignint attitude libs get over the idea after, again, they spent years trying to prove the last president blew up New York.

Healthcare is socialism.

There. You don't see that? Nobody anywhere at any time said anything close to "healthcare is socialism". Obama's proposed plan is socialism and people in his own party agree.

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

From an outsider's perspective I ask myself does he have a point and can the Republicans ever be taken seriously with such odd ideas at the heart of their thinking?

I'm not that familiar with Tomasky but his rhetoric sounds about like a Bill Maher standup routine. Anyone who would use this kind of talk as a compass is just exactly who he's looking for.

[StrongInTheArm]

Thanks for the perspective South!

There. You don't see that? Nobody anywhere at any time said anything close to "healthcare is socialism". Obama's proposed plan is socialism and people in his own party agree.

Nobody said it was socialism and yet in your very next sentence what do you call his plan?

[South]

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

Thanks for the perspective South!



Nobody said it was socialism and yet in your very next sentence what do you call his plan?

Exactly. Healthcare isn't socialism. Obama's plan is socialism. His plan is about as concerned for caring for the health of Americans as the stimulus plan was with stimulating the economy.

His plan is such a disastrous usurpation and economic dog that he's having to buy members of his own party off one buy one. Why do you think he's trying to cram down a vote on this 1000+ page bill before the legislators or public has had the chance to read it? Because the more people understand it the less they want it.

You have to read the fine print on this guy. Nobody in America wants poor sick people unable to get care. The fact is that poor sick people get care right now.

As of this morning Barack Obama's former personal physician has publicly stated that the proposed plan would be a disaster for America.

[South]

Here's some of that stimulus money being spent that Obama said "we had to pass right now or we'd go into a depression".

But some of the NEA's grants are spicing up more than the economy. A few of their more risque choices have some taxpayer advocates hot under the collar, including a $50,000 infusion for the Frameline film house, which recently screened Thundercrack, "the world's only underground kinky art porno horror film, complete with four men, three women and a gorilla."

[Zap]

Originally Posted by South

As of this morning Barack Obama's former personal physician has publicly stated that the proposed plan would be a disaster for America.

I'm more interested in what his financial advisor had to say about his kidneys.

[South]

Originally Posted by Zap

I'm more interested in what his financial advisor had to say about his kidneys.

You don't think physicians understand the healthcare market better than financial advisers understand kidneys? Swing and a miss. Try again.

[Zap]

Originally Posted by South

You don't think physicians understand the healthcare market better than financial advisers understand kidneys? Swing and a miss. Try again.

Marginally, maybe, but not enough to be of any actual use.
Come on, South.

That's like saying a car salesman would know what to do with GM.

[Muddy]

That's remarkable, but it doesn't surprise me at all. Do you have a link for that South?