Liberalism is socialist?

[John Scott]

Is liberalism a type of socialism?

[Natural Elements]

According to this link, no.
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-socialism.htm

Liberalism:
"considers individual liberty and equality"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Socialism:
"equal access to resources for all individuals"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist

[Bob Barr]

Originally Posted by Natural Elements

Liberalism:
"considers individual liberty and equality"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

While that may be the definition of "classical" liberalism, today's version of liberalism (or are they calling it progressivism now?) is based on group rights over individual liberty. It also promotes equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity.

[Natural Elements]

Originally Posted by Bob Barr

While that may be the definition of "classical" liberalism, today's version of liberalism (or are they calling it progressivism now?) is based on group rights over individual liberty. It also promotes equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity.

Progressivism is a big terme. Progressivism is socialism/egalitarianism for me but again in the real life it means that you can be a hard worker or not you have the same salary which is not fair and demotivate people.

I prefer much more the old concept that provides promotions/raises for hard workers, that's motivation.

Now these days the concept is completly wrong and greedy when employers put a specific value on the job title and not on individual results/performances.

[John Scott]

From the first link provided:

As you can see, a central planning committee is not a necessary feature of socialism; only worker ownership of production is.

So, you'd agree with that? You would say that a political party that has renounced and denounced nationalization would not be a socialist party?

[Natural Elements]

Yes, I would say that a political party that has renounced and denounced nationalization would not be a socialist party, that's my opinion. I experienced in my country that when the Socialists were in power, they tend to nationalize big companies and banks.

Actually what seems to work is a right wing party (which is not socialist) that can implement certain socialist policies. I guess a system can work if the capitalists have a certain amount of freedom but also having a little bit of socialism.

http://www.google.fr/archivesearch?q...e=1981&lnav=dt

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Natural Elements

Yes, I would say that a political party that has renounced and denounced nationalization would not be a socialist party, that's my opinion. I experienced in my country that when the Socialists were in power, they tend to nationalize big companies and banks.

Indeed, a lot of socialist parties do prefer to nationalize enterprise. But not all. The momentum is to control through regulation as opposed to nationalize outright.

The British Labour Party is socialist. It's a member of the SI.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_International

They describe themselves: "The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party."

http://www.labour.org.uk/labour_policies

In May of 1989, the Labour Party published a policy statement disavowing nationalization of enterprise. The market was accepted as “an essential instrument of wealth creation”; “modernization and regulation, not outright ownership and control, were deemed to be more important”.

So, the yeah, control through regulation and not nationalization. On those terms, Liberalism is surely in line with the Labour Party's vision of democratic socialism.

[zero]

How about this one? >>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

[StrongInTheArm]

Are people not free to believe what they will?

"How can one conceive of a one-party system in a country that has over 200 varieties of cheeses?"
Charles de Gaulle

Translate that into a world of 6 billion people.

I wonder how many non-socialist nations exist in this world.

[Natural Elements]

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

Are people not free to believe what they will?

"How can one conceive of a one-party system in a country that has over 200 varieties of cheeses?"
Charles de Gaulle

Translate that into a world of 6 billion people.

I wonder how many non-socialist nations exist in this world.

Here a list List of socialist countries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...list_countries

As you can see not a lot of countries remain socialist, there must be a reason...

[StrongInTheArm]

Originally Posted by Natural Elements

Here a list List of socialist countries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...list_countries

As you can see not a lot of countries remain socialist, there must be a reason...

The article is disputed.

[Natural Elements]

Originally Posted by StrongInTheArm

The article is disputed.

Perhaps it is, but that gives you an idea.

[South]

I don't know if liberalism is a form of socialism, but it's the pathway to it, an ingredient of it.

Both liberalism and personal freedom can't thrive under one roof.

[John Scott]

Are people not free to believe what they will?

I would hope so. If people want to believe that the earth is flat, they are surely free to believe it. But let's not stop educating people as to the truth of the matter.

[StrongInTheArm]

Flat Earthers

I can't argue against the wisdom gained through education and experience. But so much is subjective in politics and the affairs of man.

What are we talking about, political truths or empirical truths? Because of course one man's political truth is another man's lie, or at least distortion, or error.

[Natural Elements]

A country is like an company, if you motivate your employees/managers/citizens, you will obtain 150% of them. If you don't motivate people you will just get what you pay for, simple as that.