Gun confiscation

[Hades]

Originally Posted by robjones

Hades... we disagree on the acceptability of allowing a guy to be sliced in our presence. So for lack of a gun, as a young Marine fresh from weeks of physical training I'd have waded in, and barring a lucky break on his side, I'd have beat the knife-wielding aggressor with whatever weapon was at hand... be it a tire tool or his own arm. Of course there's every possibilty I'd have been cut up in the process, as would he.

Instead... nobody was harmed, yet despite the obvious best case outcome allowed by use of a firearm... you oppose it on the suggestion that allowing the victim to be sacrificed would help others? I have to disagree.

But the thing is that you knew what you were doing.

That is why I want to see law enforcement institutions enforcing the law, not citizens. In the case you posted the situation was obvious and you were trained, but there are thousands of "grays" that cannot be resolved as easily and if suddenly citizens are able to make their own interpretation of the law and acting accordingly, I will be scared of going out to the streets fearing that somebody will shoot me for what they believed was me breaking the law.

You could say (and you already said) that there was no policeman present in the scene, and well then we disagree there, you, a qualified military man, would act. I, being a non-trained person would run away and look for qualified help.

You have the equipment and enough knowledge to be able to act in those situations. But not everyone (and I would say, almost nobody) is in the same conditions as you.

Originally Posted by robjones

I still await Anonymously's recommendation. He indicated what I did was inappropriate. I want to hear his preferred action.

Sorry for the interference , just thought your case was interesting and wanted to give my two cents, I too await Anonymously's response on this

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Hades

But the thing is that you knew what you were doing.

That is why I want to see law enforcement institutions enforcing the law, not citizens.

You just hit on one of my biggest pet peeves. A woman is raped in a park while hundreds walk by and do nothing. Cowards. A man is brutally assaulted at a pizza joint while a dozen or so man stand by and do nothing. Cowards.

The police cannot escort each and every citizen 24 hours a day.

Originally Posted by Hades

there are thousands of "grays" that cannot be resolved as easily and if suddenly citizens are able to make their own interpretation of the law and acting accordingly, I will be scared of going out to the streets fearing that somebody will shoot me for what they believed was me breaking the law.

You'll fear that somebody will shoot you? Sounds psychotic at first glance - want to elaborate? I've run down a fleeing criminal before. Didn't shoot him. Just held him for the cops who were two minutes away. My cousin has done that, too.

Shooting is usually not the first step in defending fellow citizens. I have a hard time imagining how you think you'd get shot.

In fact, you're entire theory makes no sense. If you think that well meaning citizens would shoot you, then you must think that the police would shoot you. They, after all, have a worst track record than the average citizen when it comes to shooting innocent people. If I'm going to be mistaken for a criminal, I'd rather be stopped by an average citizen than a trigger happy cop.

[Hades]

Originally Posted by John Scott

You just hit on one of my biggest pet peeves. A woman is raped in a park while hundreds walk by and do nothing. Cowards. A man is brutally assaulted at a pizza joint while a dozen or so man stand by and do nothing. Cowards.

The police cannot escort each and every citizen 24 hours a day.

I said in my previous post I would look for qualified help. Looking for help is being a coward now?

Originally Posted by John Scott

You'll fear that somebody will shoot you? Sounds psychotic at first glance - want to elaborate?

This too I thought I made it clear in the previous post, between the 2 options:
1-untrained citizens carrying weapons and enforcing their interpretation of the law,
2-only trained men carrying weapons and enforcing the only official interpretation of the law,

I think in the first case I would have more chances of getting shot than in case 2.

Yeah as psychotic as it sounds, I would feel scared of going out on the streets.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Hades

I said in my previous post I would look for qualified help. Looking for help is being a coward now?

By not meeting your responsibility to offer immediate assistance. In the time that you window shop for qualified help, an innocent victim is being subjected to criminal violation.

untrained citizens carrying weapons and enforcing their interpretation of the law

Nobody is asking anybody to enforce the law. We ask that you do your part to stop obvious and egregious violations of basic human rights. Nobody wants you to write parking tickets, but if you think that a woman or man being beaten to death is somehow "grey", then maybe we should distribute flash cards with pictures of felony assault. I think most people can tell the difference between a man eating ice cream and a man stabbing a woman 70 times in the chest.

only trained men carrying weapons and enforcing the only official interpretation of the law

As I said, nobody is asking you to enforce the law.

I think in the first case I would have more chances of getting shot than in case 2.

If we banned citizens from coming to the assistance of victims of violent assault - as you desire - the chances of you being a victim would pretty much skyrocket.

Originally Posted by Hades

Yeah as psychotic as it sounds, I would feel scared of going out on the streets.

I would be scared if every other citizen shared your mentality. As it is, I feel relatively safe because I know brave men like robjones would come to my aide.

[Cricket]

It may be a cultural thing because in Texas, I don't know too many people that would not take some sort of immediate action knowing that someone was fixin to get hurt.

[edosauyi]

Keep in mind, slaves do not own guns. Only freemen do.

Slaves do own guns even more than freemen do.

[Natural Elements]

@ Hades "I, being a non-trained person would run away and look for qualified help"

Sometime you don't have the time to run away and ask for help. Who will help you beside the cops? Here you can wait up to 20 minutes before they show up. It is not their fault, it is how it works.

In 20 minutes you can be killed, the only way to stop criminal attacker(s) threating the life of your family members or you it's when you have your own firearm.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Natural Elements

@ Hades "I, being a non-trained person would run away and look for qualified help"

Sometime you don't have the time to run away and ask for help. Who will help you beside the cops? Here you can wait up to 20 minutes before they show up. It is not their fault, it is how it works.

In 20 minutes you can be killed, the only way to stop criminal attacker(s) threating the life of your family members or you it's when you have your own firearm.

My comments on this . . .
http://www.v7n.com/forums/politics/1...ml#post1216522

[Natural Elements]

Originally Posted by Cricket

My comments on this . . .
http://www.v7n.com/forums/politics/1...ml#post1216522

Yep I saw your post and you are perfectly right.

I guess it is difficult for some people to understand that the police can't show up as quickly as in Europe or other small countries.

During the time cops show up, you have to defense yourself and this country gives this constitutional right to defense yourself with a firearm.

[Cricket]

Gentle Reminder To Everyone: Please don't allow your comments to become personal opinions about the person stating their opinion. Stick to the debate itself. Thanks

[Jay D.]

The day the government takes my guns is the day I go to Jail for murder.