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Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2004, 11:29 AM
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Planes weren't hijacked on 9/11

This flash thing is about the most ridiculous thing ive EVER seen. I wanna kill whoever made this:

http://www.elchulo.net/files/pentagon.swf

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Old 10-30-2004, 11:41 AM
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Yeah, one reaction, I would like to see the videos the feds confiscated from the gas station and all the other videos they took from companies who had surveilance cameras that had clear sight on the pentagon and the path of that 'plane'. I have seen the damage here in Amsterdam when a plane hit appatment buildings a few years ago with my own eyes and to be honest, looking at the damage of the pentagon I have some questions too.
 
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by younghistorians
This flash thing is about the most ridiculous thing ive EVER seen. I wanna kill whoever made this:

http://www.elchulo.net/files/pentagon.swf

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Same reaction as you. I went to one of those popular websites that show how common myths are not true, and they answered all questions that this flash raised extremely well.
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Old 10-30-2004, 11:51 AM
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I have to agree with Ferre on this one.

The amount of evidence the government holds back from it's people is astonishing. They only feed you what they want you to believe.

Every country has their own professional spin doctors carefully feeding the puplic just the right amount of info so that their people believe what they (the leaders) want you to believe.

Iraq does it - the UK does it, America does it, every country is guilty.

The line between truth and lies is constantly getting thinner.
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Old 10-30-2004, 12:23 PM
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Yep, looking at it from my culture it's unbelievable to see how many secrets the government keeps when it comes down to these 9/11 events, In my country this is plain impossible and even a crime to hold information from the people/public. When it happens somewhere..it stinks. This fact alone would be reason for an independent investigation in my country, into the reasons for this secrecy.

What a difference some cultures have don't they?
 
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Old 10-30-2004, 12:39 PM
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It's very true... different indeed. But I feel like the US has weakened its people to the point where to question the government is unpatriotic. You are supposed to put this blind faith in them as tho you would your God of choice. I can make that leap of faith for a God, and perhaps I'm wrong about that, who knows, but there's no way I would give my government the benefit of the doubt without conclusive proof.

The government is to represent its people, and when they don't they should be held accountable as Ferre said. I hardly see how any of the information on that tape is classified/confidential. It can't be because they've already given their official statements as to what happened at the Pentagon. So how could releasing a tape that verifies what is officially on the record be a breach of any classification?
 
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Old 10-30-2004, 12:50 PM
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Read my lips; i-t s-t-i-n-k-s
 
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Old 10-30-2004, 02:39 PM
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"This Flash Movie is being hosted on ElChulo.net. Flash movies such as this one require bandwidth for viewing on the internet. I allow these files to be viewed to the world at my own expense. Please help me keep these files online by donating to the cause. If a few visitors were to donate a dollar each, that would make all the difference. I am close to being forced to remove these large flash movies in order to keep my website online. Your support would be greatly appreciated." - Lol, you guys should host him!
 
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Old 10-30-2004, 02:43 PM
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That flash movie is being hosted on many sites, I've seen it on at least 3 or 4 the past few months. This isn't the first time I've seen it at all.
 
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Old 10-30-2004, 02:51 PM
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It didn't say that planes weren't hijacked! It said that it looks like a smaller plane or missile hit the Pentagon.

Why would this make you angry, younghistorians? You don't think that the government keeps secrets? Have you ever heard of classified documents and information?

Brian, which website did you visit?
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Old 10-30-2004, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
Read my lips; i-t s-t-i-n-k-s
Might want to tell these folk's families then as well as the 9/11 commission:

Quote:
AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77

American Airlines Flight 77, from Washington to Los Angeles, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard.

CREW

Charles Burlingame of Herndon, Virginia, was the plane's captain. He is survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson. He had more than 20 years of experience flying with American Airlines and was a former U.S. Navy pilot.

David Charlebois, who lived in Washington's Dupont Circle neighborhood, was the first officer on the flight. "He was handsome and happy and very centered," his neighbor Travis White, told The Washington Post. "His life was the kind of life I wanted to have some day."

Michele Heidenberger of Chevy Chase, Maryland, was a flight attendant for 30 years. She left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

Flight attendant Jennifer Lewis, 38, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the wife of flight attendant Kenneth Lewis.

Flight attendant Kenneth Lewis, 49, of Culpeper, Virginia, was the husband of flight attendant Jennifer Lewis.

Renee May, 39, of Baltimore, Maryland, was a flight attendant.


PASSENGERS

Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru, 35, was from Burbank, California.

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Dana Falkenberg, 3, of University Park, Maryland, was the daughter of Charles Falkenberg and Leslie Whittingham.

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68, was from Rancho Palos Verdes, California.

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40, of Potomac, Maryland, was a tax and business lawyer.

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47, was from Irvington, New York.

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor was from Reston, Virginia.

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71, was from Waldorf, Maryland.

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2004, 03:04 PM
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I don't know if you are aware of this brother, but families of 9/11 victims are suing the state because they want to have loads of questions answered as well.
 
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Old 10-30-2004, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
I don't know if you are aware of this brother, but families of 9/11 victims are suing the state because they want to have loads of questions answered as well.
First off, I am not your brother. Please, do not address me as such.

Secondly, I am aware of lawsuits involving the families. However, in the meantime, why don't you email each of the family members and let them in on your little fantasy. I am sure they would love to see that movie, wouldn't you?
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Old 10-30-2004, 03:09 PM
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http://www.911forthetruth.com/

http://www.911citizenswatch.org/print.php?sid=265
 
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Old 10-30-2004, 03:11 PM
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http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/
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Old 10-30-2004, 03:13 PM
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www.stopbitching.com
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Old 10-30-2004, 03:14 PM
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Old 10-30-2004, 03:17 PM
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You really misunderstand me, I do not claim I know he truth, what I do claim is that there are many questions unanswered and there's too much secrecy, this combined with lies the government has been cached on makes me think a proper investigation would at least take away all the conspiracy theories and stop all the questioning that happens now.

Also, the question what has happened to that plane IF it was not the plane that hit the pentagon should be answered at the same time. In my country this investigation would happen, that's all, but the US government isn't very transparant and this way they just ask for more questions.

If someone accuses our goverment of covering things up every stone is turned to dig up the truth, why not in America?
 
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Old 10-30-2004, 03:21 PM
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First off, I am not your brother. Please, do not address me as such.
He prefers "Sunshine" or "Sweet Lips"!
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Old 10-30-2004, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
You really misunderstand me, I do not claim I know he truth, what I do claim is that there are many questions unanswered and there's too much secrecy, this combined with lies the government has been cached on makes me think a proper investigation would at least take away all the conspiracy theories and stop all the questioning that happens now.

Also, the question what has happened to that plane IF it was not the plane that hit the pentagon should be answered at the same time. In my country this investigation would happen, that's all, but the US government isn't very transparant and this way they just ask for more questions.

If someone accuses our goverment of covering things up every stone is turned to dig up the truth, why not in America?

Ditto, i am not going to hide in ignorance when my questions remained unanswered
 
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