Can Rapists Be Rehabilitated?

[Cricket]

Officers have found three bodies and believe they have discovered three more but are awaiting confirmation from the coroner, Stacho said. The first two bodies were found Thursday night when police went to Sowell's home to arrest him on charges of felonious assault and rape. Police say he had spent 15 years in prison for a 1989 rape. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...e_N.htm?csp=34

After reading the above story, I have to wonder what in the heck are we doing? Why are we letting these guys out to do it again and again, but essentially teaching them to make sure they kill their victims next time? How many lives do they have to destroy before we start to decide that some people simply do not belong in society?

Researching this topic left me a lot of doubt as to if rapist can ever be rehabilitated, or if we are just fooling ourselves.

Many experts have put forth the idea that those who commit sexual offenses are acting on a psychotic urge that goes beyond mere anti-social tendencies that most criminals harbors. They see these types of criminals as compulsive and, therefore, unresponsive to typical criminal punishments. http://crime.suite101.com/article.cf...pist_in_prison

This article tries to look at both sides . . .
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_rapist...ey_be_punished

What are your thoughts? Can rapist be rehabilitated? Why do you feel that way? Would you be willing to live next door to someone that was a convicted rapist who has been released from prison?

[Zap]

Maybe rapists (and other offenders) can be rehabilitated.
Locking them up in prisons with other dangerous offenders for a length of time is NOT rehabilitation.
It's not meant to correct any behaviour. It's meant to quench a thirst for retribution. Nothing more.
Quite often, people leave prison in worse mental shape than when they went in.

Perhaps a new approach is warranted. One which makes real rehabilitation the goal.
Maybe then, we could see some real improvement in society.

[website-seo]

Originally Posted by Zap

Maybe rapists (and other offenders) can be rehabilitated.
Locking them up in prisons with other dangerous offenders for a length of time is NOT rehabilitation.
It's not meant to correct any behaviour. It's meant to quench a thirst for retribution. Nothing more.
Quite often, people leave prison in worse mental shape than when they went in.

Perhaps a new approach is warranted. One which makes real rehabilitation the goal.
Maybe then, we could see some real improvement in society.

I completely agree. Jail has no point, just to keep dangerous people away from normal people. There should actually be some kind of therapy to rapists to get them in better mental shape.

[Cricket]

Can y'all show me some studies that indicate that rapists can be successfully rehabilitated?

I did some research into this and even the most liberal of articles I could find, followed up their research with this comment.

So my take away is that treatment may or may not work and we have no way of telling who it will work on, but we should be thrilled because maybe it will work on someone. And of those treated, one out of five will offend again. That means that one out of five will commit a violent rape again. http://www.rightwingnews.com/mt331/2...ehabilitat.php

This comment [bolding is mine]made absolutely no sense to me. Senator Mega is saying he is calling for mandatory treatment, even though no conclusive evidence was offered?

Although there was no conclusive evidence cited at the hearing that rehabilitation is possible, Senator Mega, Republican of Brooklyn, said he would introduce legislation calling for mandatory treatment of sex offenders during incarceration and follow-up treatment afterward. He said he would also ask for increases in the minimum sentences for sex crimes. http://www.nytimes.com/1989/06/19/ny...r-rapists.html

Read this old article from the archives of Readers Digest and tell me things have changed much, because I don't think they have.

Freed to Rape Again
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/719442/posts

When do you think enough is enough? How many times to they have to rape before we stop letting them out? Should we just wait until they escalate to killing their victims too?

My personal opinion? I don't care where you lock them up, prison or a mental hospital, just don't give them the opportunity to do it again. Not ever . . .

[ELCaD]

Originally Posted by Cricket

My personal opinion? I don't care where you lock them up, prison or a mental hospital, just don't give them the opportunity to do it again. Not ever . . .

If only the people in power thought this way....

Sorry to all the optimists out there who believe that there is good in everyone, but some people are just bad and do not deserve the opportunity to harm others.

Why is society hell bent on a second chance culture? What, we think maybe the rapists and murderers didn't realise what they were doing is bad?

At the end of the day the victims don't get a second chance...

Lock them all up and throw away the key.

[ELCaD]

Originally Posted by Zap

Perhaps a new approach is warranted. One which makes real rehabilitation the goal.
Maybe then, we could see some real improvement in society.

Curing something that has already happened doesn't improve society. Society doesn't need a cure, it needs a preventative.

I know the thought of prison probably doesn't even register with most criminals, but say that for 0.1% of potential criminals they decide not to do whatever it was because of the fear of prison, that is good right?
Now, do you think that 0.1% would be scared to sit down and be cuddled? No, so there is absolutely zero deterrent there.

[John Scott]

Most rapists I've met believe they have every right to rape. Either they were wronged by "women" and have a right to extract revenge, or they were wronged by "society" (aka the "liberal mentality"), society "owes" them and they have a right to extract payment however they see fit, or some woman "lead them on" and it's the woman's fault.

Then there are those like the famed liberal attorney, Clarence Darrow, who say that sex drive is a natural, evolutionary "primal urge" and if we are going to blame anybody, we should blame evolution.

Can rapists be cured? No. It's not a disease. There is no disease called "rape".

People rape, and commit other crimes, because of what they believe. If you believe that you are entitled to more than society has given you, that you are a victim, and that you have a right to extract payment from society, then you'll be OK with committing crimes.

If those beliefs - i.e., liberalism - can be addressed and shown to be in error, so that people come to understand that they are not entitled to anything other than what they earn; if people come to understand that they do not have a right to extract anything from innocent individuals who have never wronged them, then there is a good chance they will not feel justified raping, killing or stealing.

Of the rapists I've met in prison, the majority surely did not come to understand the wrongness of their actions. Some talked about getting back at women by raping again once they were released. But a few understood that their belief system was in error and those are unlikely to re-offend, IMO.

[Allen Farlow]

Well, exactly what is rape? It has very little, if anything, to do with the sex act itself. Rape is about control and power, also a man using his manhood as a weapon, as a means to hurt and therefore control.

Rehab? I think it depends upon the individual being rehabbed, assuming they are lucky to still be alive. I would hope the woman would be of the mind to kill the son of a...right on the spot.

Rehab works for some, while it will never work for others. It has to be a personal choice by that individual, an acknowledgment that what they did was wrong and a personal willingness to never do it again.

Quite frankly, I am of the mind that those men who commit sexual crimes should first be castrated (physically, just lop them off. None of this chemical baloney.) and then send them to prison to do their time.

And a second offense? Lop their head off. (The one on their shoulders.)

Dead men don't re-offend.

They wouldn't want to appear before me if I were a judge, I guarantee that. I'd order they be castrated within five minutes of leaving my courtroom. Appeal? HA!

But there must be common sense in sentencing! An 18-year-old male having consensual sex with his 14 or 16 year old girlfriend is not a sex crime!

Unfortunately, there are cases where the girl gets angry and accuses the male of such.

But usually the truth comes out, but not always, so mistakes will be made. Innocent men would be castrated and sent to prison, I think.

I think, in the vast majority of cases, that castration would work, as it removes a lot of the desire, what gives men the urge, if you will.

What do you think?

[Moore123]

i don't think that rapist can be rehabilitated as they already have some mental problems and they need some special treatment and some institutions to live in.

[Allen Farlow]

Institutions to live in?

I fail to see why the rest of society should be forced to pay the bills for people who can't control themselves like we can. It's not as if they are mentally ill. They are quite sane. They just think they can do (and get away with) whatever they please.

We in America used to hang horse thieves in the town square, in front of the entire town. It serves a purpose, to instill in people the penalty they would receive if they decided to flaunt the law concerning stealing another man's horse (which, back then was like stealing his car, only back then it could mean leaving a man on foot in the middle of nowhere to die of dehydration.)

I personally wouldn't object to rapists being forced to stretch the ropes. I'm sick and tired of criminals not getting what they deserve simply because of something called cruel and unusual punishment.

Why should they be protected from it? Isn't that what they gave their victims?

Let 'em swing and I guarantee they won't do it again.

[Zap]

Originally Posted by Allen Farlow

Institutions to live in?

I fail to see why the rest of society should be forced to pay the bills for people who can't control themselves like we can. It's not as if they are mentally ill. They are quite sane. They just think they can do (and get away with) whatever they please.

We in America used to hang horse thieves in the town square, in front of the entire town. It serves a purpose, to instill in people the penalty they would receive if they decided to flaunt the law concerning stealing another man's horse (which, back then was like stealing his car, only back then it could mean leaving a man on foot in the middle of nowhere to die of dehydration.)

I personally wouldn't object to rapists being forced to stretch the ropes. I'm sick and tired of criminals not getting what they deserve simply because of something called cruel and unusual punishment.

Why should they be protected from it? Isn't that what they gave their victims?

Let 'em swing and I guarantee they won't do it again.

Sadly, this attitude of intolerance is all too common.
I guess you've never heard of false charges being brought against a man as an act of revenge.
Some people think that they have all the answers and that mistakes are never made.
Reality is very different.

To kill a man for theft??? That speaks volumes about your priorities.

[John Scott]

Sadly, this attitude of intolerance is all too common.

Being tolerant of rape is the absurdity, not intolerance.

I guess you've never heard of false charges being brought against a man as an act of revenge.

I'm sure he's heard of false charges being brought, but we do not stop prosecuting people because of false charges; we take extra care to not convict the innocent, even if that means that many guilty people go free.

Some people think that they have all the answers and that mistakes are never made.

Nobody believes that. Nobody. Never was there a more absurd straw man. We know mistakes are going to be made, so we design a system that errs in favor of the falsely accused.

To kill a man for theft??? That speaks volumes about your priorities.

To kill a man for theft is fine by me. Theft is simply enslavement after the fact. When people work their whole lives to save up and retire, and somebody steals their retirement funds, it effectively steals years of hard work from them.

[Zap]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Being tolerant of rape is the absurdity, not intolerance.

There's a strawman if I ever saw one.
I was referring to the whole deal... killing for theft, the cavalier attitude expressed by "let 'em swing" which leads to many innocent people being hanged for crimes they didn't commit. That kind of attitude is not likely going to breed an atmosphere where the following is the norm...

Originally Posted by John Scott

I'm sure he's heard of false charges being brought, but we do not stop prosecuting people because of false charges; we take extra care to not convict the innocent, even if that means that many guilty people go free.

Originally Posted by John Scott

To kill a man for theft is fine by me. Theft is simply enslavement after the fact. When people work their whole lives to save up and retire, and somebody steals their retirement funds, it effectively steals years of hard work from them.

So, you would be OK with killing for retirement funds.
Would you kill someone who stole a car?
What would/wouldn't be good criteria to make a theft serious enough to kill over?
And, since you've killed before, what did you kill for?
What did the person you killed do to warrant that death sentence?

[Cricket]

Okay, let's take care not to let this become personal. The issue we are discussing is: Can Rapists Be Rehabilitated?

Can anyone find substantial evidence either way?

If not, what is the answer? Do we keep locking them up over and over again? Or, does there come a point when they lose the right to live in society? Where is that point? How many times can one person violently rape someone before you feel they lose the right to ever have another chance to do it again?

[John Scott]

the cavalier attitude expressed by "let 'em swing" which leads to many innocent people being hanged for crimes they didn't commit

Nobody here has a cavalier attitude towards hanging innocent men. There is a basic difference between you and more socially responsible people.

You think that truth is relative, that criminals shouldn't be punished. You attempt to justify this attitude by appealing to the possibility of innocent men being convicted. Your answer is to be soft on crime and to be cavalier toward the huge number of killings that occur because of people like you who went soft on crime.

We, on the other hand, believe that a system can be designed to ensure that innocent people are not convicted. Even if that means that guilty people like OJ go free sometimes.

We then want to punish criminals to deter others from crime, and to protect innocent people in society.

Would you kill someone who stole a car?

Depends, but it's possible.

And, since you've killed before, what did you kill for?

At the time I was an adherent of liberal morality - "if it feels right, do it".

It felt right.

What did the person you killed do to warrant that death sentence?

Absolutely nothing. And if justice had prevailed, I would have hung.

[ScriptMan]

Can anyone find substantial evidence either way?

If not, what is the answer? Do we keep locking them up over and over again? Or, does there come a point when they lose the right to live in society? Where is that point? How many times can one person violently rape someone before you feel they lose the right to ever have another chance to do it again?

I doubt there will be any conclusive data posted.

Rape is not a sex crime. It is a crime of violence. Sex is secondary.

IMO, rehabilitation is yet another failed liberal policy. Punishement for a crime should match the crime. Two strikes and life without parole on this one is the best I can grant. That or a penisectomy.

[Zap]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Nobody here has a cavalier attitude towards hanging innocent men. There is a basic difference between you and more socially responsible people.

That's what you think, but you're wrong.

Originally Posted by John Scott

You think that truth is relative, that criminals shouldn't be punished. You attempt to justify this attitude by appealing to the possibility of innocent men being convicted. Your answer is to be soft on crime and to be cavalier toward the huge number of killings that occur because of people like you who went soft on crime.

We, on the other hand, believe that a system can be designed to ensure that innocent people are not convicted. Even if that means that guilty people like OJ go free sometimes.

We then want to punish criminals to deter others from crime, and to protect innocent people in society.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions, which probably explains why you're so far off base.
I'm not against punishing criminals. Not by a long shot.
But we differ in that I don't believe theft of a car should ever be punishable by death.
I also don't believe that "absolutely nothing" is a good enough reason to kill someone.
I believe the punishment should fit the crime and that repeat offenders should get progressively stiffer penalties for breaking our laws. I also think we should take great care not to convict innocent people and one of the reasons I am against death as a punishment for any crime is because society makes mistakes.

If that's "socially irresponsible", so be it.

[Zap]

@Cricket: I also doubt you'll get any stats regarding rehabilitation of rapists because that hasn't been our focus to date.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Zap

@Cricket: I also doubt you'll get any stats regarding rehabilitation of rapists because that hasn't been our focus to date.

Actually if you read the articles I referenced and quoted earlier you will find that Vermont is believed to have the most sophisticated and successful rehab program anywhere in the country and provide statistics that while certainly better, still don't leave me wanting one of these guys living nearby.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Cricket

Actually if you read the articles I referenced and quoted earlier you will find that Vermont is believed to have the most sophisticated and successful rehab program anywhere in the country and provide statistics that while certainly better, still don't leave me wanting one of these guys living nearby.

I think Denmark did a better job. They used to -perhaps still do - chemically alter the testosterone levels of all violent convicts, not just rapists, as a condition of early release.

If you want out early, you have to agree to it, and it seems to work. I find it offensive, but it does seem to work.