U.S. jobless rate hits 10.2 percent

[Natural Elements]

The U.S. jobless rate unexpectedly jumped to a 26-1/2-year high of 10.2 percent last month, adding to pressure on the Obama administration to do more to tackle unemployment even as signs of recovery mount.

The Labor Department said on Friday that employers cut 190,000 jobs in October, more than the 175,000 markets had expected but fewer than the 219,000 lost in September.

Taking some of the sting out of the report, job losses for August and September were revised to show 91,000 fewer jobs were lost than previously reported.

While that hinted at some improvement in labor market conditions, economists had looked for the jobless rate to rise to 9.9 percent from September's 9.8 percent.

"Unfortunately, the problem is becoming deeper and more protracted," Mohamed El-Erian, chief executive of bond giant Pacific Investment Management told Reuters. "It's not just the increase in the headline number. ... It's also about the longer-term nature of unemployment, the increase in underemployment, and the prospect for only a very gradual recovery."

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...43717320091106

[Icedout]

That's just the the people that are known to be unemployed. I'm currently unemployed and they don't know it, I'm not trying to collect unemployment either.

What about all the bumbs and homeless people, I doubt they count these people either. It's probably worst than those figures.

[Natural Elements]

Originally Posted by Icedout

That's just the the people that are known to be unemployed. I'm currently unemployed and they don't know it, I'm not trying to collect unemployment either.

What about all the bumbs and homeless people, I doubt they count these people either. It's probably worst than those figures.

There is no shame to collect unemployment benefits, some people don't have any other choices.

The numbers can be manipulated the way they want, just double the official numbers and you will be close to the real ones.

This administration should be more agressive against unemployment even if there is a lag time. I listen one of the last conference press and after they said the economy will kick in next year first quater, now they say that the economy will start kick in by the end of 2010.

All I can say is that they don't know when, but they must be way more active on this issue before people get trapped in despair.

[Bob Barr]

All I can say is that they don't know when, but they must be way more active on this issue before people get trapped in despair.

I'd rather see "them" (i.e. the government, particularly federal) be way less active.

Get out of the way, let businesses know that there won't be any more huge changes imposed by the feds, and allow American businesses to do their own recovery. A huge WPA-style program is the last thing in this world that we need at this point.

[Natural Elements]

How can American businesses to do their own recovery when credit dry up, payroll raise, taxes raise, licence raise, bank fees raise, tight credit and interest rates raise, people don't or cannot spend, and companies laid off like hell ?

The government need to find the right mecanism to kick in the economy one way or another.

[Bob Barr]

Many of the things that you list as causing the problems in our economy are directly attributable to government interfering with the economy. Why would you think that government is the solution rather than the problem?

1) credit dry up - mainly because the feds forced banks to make bad loans to unqualified individuals and failed to properly regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

2) payroll raise - in large part, due to increases in taxes, government fees, and forced unionization

3) taxes raise - government in action

4) licence raise - largely a function of state and local government

5) bank fees raise - at least partially due to taxes and government meddling

6) tight credit and interest rates raise - see point 1 above

7) people don't or cannot spend - in part due to high taxes

eight) companies laid off like hell - see point 7 above - no customers, no sales (using the numeral 8 turns it into a smiley)

[Natural Elements]

Originally Posted by Bob Barr

Many of the things that you list as causing the problems in our economy are directly attributable to government interfering with the economy. Why would you think that government is the solution rather than the problem?

1) credit dry up - mainly because the feds forced banks to make bad loans to unqualified individuals and failed to properly regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

2) payroll raise - in large part, due to increases in taxes, government fees, and forced unionization

3) taxes raise - government in action

4) licence raise - largely a function of state and local government

5) bank fees raise - at least partially due to taxes and government meddling

6) tight credit and interest rates raise - see point 1 above

7) people don't or cannot spend - in part due to high taxes

eight) companies laid off like hell - see point 7 above - no customers, no sales (using the numeral 8 turns it into a smiley)

Very well Bob, now how can American businesses do their own recovery when some administrations interfered in many ways for many years?

How can we fix that when they cannot reverse things now?

[Bob Barr]

Originally Posted by Natural Elements

Very well Bob, now how can American businesses do their own recovery when some administrations interfered in many ways for many years?

Some of the biggest meddling (government ownership of GM and Chrysler, firing GM's CEO, bank takeovers, pay czars, etc) have only happened over the past 8 months.

Some problems (the banking disaster for example) do span decades and involve multiple administrations. The Community Reinvestment Act started under Carter, expanded greatly under Clinton, and finally bit us in the butt under Obama. Had Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac reforms (proposed, but never implemented, under Bush) been put into place, perhaps some of the worst of the 'housing bubble' problems could have been prevented.

How can we fix that when they cannot reverse things now?

That presumes that the things that have been done cannot be reversed. Some of them need to be. IMHO, the feds doing more will just add to the problems.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Bob Barr

That presumes that the things that have been done cannot be reversed. Some of them need to be. IMHO, the feds doing more will just add to the problems.

Bingo.

The economy will continue to go to hell, and sooner or later the people will realize that we cannot afford to allow the gov't t to ruin the economy.

A lot of the destruction of the American economy is willful. The liberals are saying even now that we must put the breaks on the American economy in order to "give way" to the economies in developing countries. The intention is good, but the fact is that a healthy American economy helps economies in developing nations more than failing American economy.

Poor America buys less imports, you know.

[Natural Elements]

ok guys it seems like your ping point pretty well.

If we let a total free market, we will see some Madoff clones or unscrupulous business men. Do you think that the government needs for example to regulate the financial market to prevent abuse?

Do you think that stopping manufacturing overseas can help the economy and put US employment on the right track?

[Natural Elements]

I guess I've found my answer on the Ron Paul site:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N5_jtbFNVI

[Bob Barr]

Originally Posted by Natural Elements

ok guys it seems like your ping point pretty well.

If we let a total free market, we will see some Madoff clones or unscrupulous business men. Do you think that the government needs for example to regulate the financial market to prevent abuse?

I don't think that we've ever had a "total free market", at least not for quite some time. Anti-monopoly regulations were instituted about 100 or so years ago. The regulations already in place didn't prevent the Madoff fraud. While effective enforcement of existing securities regulations is appropriate, they still can't detect/prevent every fraud. IMHO, additional detailed federal control of the financial markets would be counterproductive to a recovery.

Do you think that stopping manufacturing overseas can help the economy and put US employment on the right track?

The only ways that I can think of (perhaps there are others)to stop manufacturing from going overseas would be either 1) punitive tariffs on incoming goods or 2) direct government control of the manufacturing companies. I don't believe that either of these would be good for an economic recovery.

[John Scott]

Originally Posted by Natural Elements

If we let a total free market, we will see some Madoff clones or unscrupulous business men. Do you think that the government needs for example to regulate the financial market to prevent abuse?

Do you think that stopping manufacturing overseas can help the economy and put US employment on the right track?

Madoff happens with government regulation. The people need to regulate their own economy, not the government.

And manufacturing overseas is not the problem. The economy could be as hot as an oven, if the government would allow economic freedom.

[NewMedia422]

That number is the farcical number from the government. The real rate is over 20%. The great depression only got to about 25% but lacked many of the government safety nets. The government doesn't count people who no longer qualify for unemployment, have given up looking for a job, or contractors who can't find work (since contractors never counted as employed in the first place).

[Natural Elements]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Madoff happens with government regulation. The people need to regulate their own economy, not the government.

And manufacturing overseas is not the problem. The economy could be as hot as an oven, if the government would allow economic freedom.

How the people can regulate their own economy without the government? The government is voted by the representatives of the people majority.
Congress create the rules and propose the vote for it, the President sign the bills.
How the people can regulate their own economy? I don't understand John.

Again, how the manufacturing overseas can help the US employment?

I am sincerely for trade but not full trade, I prefer fair trade which is different.

[NewMedia422]

Originally Posted by Natural Elements

Again, how the manufacturing overseas can help the US employment?

I am sincerely for trade but not full trade, I prefer fair trade which is different.

Don't worry, he's just one of the many Americans who believe that "free trade" propaganda. Meanwhile, I and many others who outsource are laughing at them all the way to the bank. How can it not be beneficial to China and detrimental to America, when 1,000 americans lose their job making cars for example and 1,000 chinese take them. Only in Keynesian fairytale land does such a myth exist.

What most Americans don't know is that trade is a war. The reason China and now Russia have not been involved in military wars is because they are focusing on economic warfare, and they are winning. America is simply not playing the game at all (because their leaders are busy profiting off of outsourcing, hedging against the dollar, etc.). It's hilarious, we sign Free Trade Agreements that say the US won't tariff their goods, but then we allow them to tariff our products.

All an "economy" is, is merely the production of goods and services. In the USA now, we don't produce any goods, we only consume them. We are completely service based. It's funny how the economists now say "the manufacturing nations *need* us to consume their goods". What a farce.

As soon as China and all other manufacturing nations decide to stop buying US treasuries (backing up our currency) our economy will literally collapse. That moment is getting near. Both the bank of India and Sri Lanka just made moves the past week to dump much of their dollars for gold, which is why gold jumped up past $1,100 (when even the most bullish gold advisors thought it would take a year for it to reach that price).

[Natural Elements]

Good post NewMedia422, each time we try to understand one part of the problem we discovered some others, and these things go deeper and deeper.

Reading a lot on geopolitics, economy, defense, etc You can have a better picture of the world chessboard and I can tell you that's pretty scary.

[Mia]

Originally Posted by John Scott

Bingo.

The economy will continue to go to hell, and sooner or later the people will realize that we cannot afford to allow the gov't t to ruin the economy.

Just curious. What that a PUN? Did you mean "RUN" or "RUIN"... Either way when the government "runs" the economy, they "ruin" it!

[Allen Farlow]

If you haven't yet, watch the youtube video in this thread:
http://www.v7n.com/forums/controvers...n-youtube.html

It shows you what happens when government gets into the idea of running 'our' business.

[Mia]

Originally Posted by Allen Farlow

If you haven't yet, watch the youtube video in this thread:
http://www.v7n.com/forums/controvers...n-youtube.html

It shows you what happens when government gets into the idea of running 'our' business.

Nice!

Kinda ironic that one of the related videos on that page lists Gibbs being questioned about what countries residents are happy with their single payer system: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRGYg...eature=related

He has no answer, but either way, they probably like it anyway... even though he does not know who that might be!