Webmaster Forum

Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Share |
  #21  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:12 AM
John Scott's Avatar
John Scott John Scott is offline
Individualist
 
Join Date: 09-27-03
Location: Wherever I want.
Posts: 28,046
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
I guess I'm not a liberal, then.
You exhibit all the symptoms of a liberal. Denial of individual freedom in favor of collectivist imposition of socialist morality, denial of objective, scientific reality, etc.

But we always test this one out.

Quote:
Six high school students attending Westfield High School are members of the school's L.I.F.E. Bible club. Both school Principal Thomas Daley and Superintendent Thomas McDowell refused the club's request to distribute candy canes during non-class time. The reason given is that other students might find the Bible verses on the canes "offensive." They handed out the canes anyway, and were each suspended for a day.

Did the candy canes violate separation?
 

Advertisement

Advertisement

  #22  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:38 AM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,770
iTrader: 5 / 100%
The suspensions were warranted. Candy canes taste awful.

On a more serious note, I can't see why school officials would get their panties in a bunch.
Unless the items being given out are dangerous to students (ie. weapons), then it's not even a school related matter.
They were given out, outside of class time.

If staff at the school give them out, then, yes, it's a violation of separation.
 
  #23  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:15 AM
Allen Farlow Allen Farlow is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 01-13-09
Posts: 1,429
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Actually, Christmas is a religious holiday (at least I think it is) because it is not about presents and some fat guy flying around giving kids toys, it's about commemorating the birth of the Christ child in Jerusalem.

Unfortunately a lot of people forget that.

Prayers once were allowed in schools and people were once allowed to include the words "one nation under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance that I once said five days a week when I was still in school.

So what happened? Can't mention God in schools, that's now a sin. Can't teach Creationism in schools, there's no proof of it. And we have that Church/State separation thing to be concerned about.

Yet teaching evolution is okay?

Hmmm...America is considered to be an inclusive country, with tolerance and acceptance for those different from us.

Well, I have no problem with that...until those different from us insist on forcing their ways and manners upon us here in America, while at the same time demanding that we stop doing what we have always done. (That's what they are doing right now in Europe.)

Yeah, I definitely have a problem with that.
 
  #24  
Old 12-03-2009, 12:52 PM
BeebleBerry's Avatar
BeebleBerry BeebleBerry is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-25-09
Location: South Africa
Posts: 377
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
I know a lot of fundamentalists, and I know of none personally who would want a school official saying prayers. How would that even work? A Muslim school teacher saying Buddhist prayers? Sounds absurd.

The controversy I am aware of is the prohibiting of students praying.

Big difference.
Of course it's absurd. But from what I read and hear, it is mostly Christians in America who are up in arms about prayer being removed from school i.e. Christian prayer. These people aren't concerned about other religious freedoms. They just want to be able to practice their Christianity. Read Allen Farlow's comments...

Quote:
LOL! Where do you find these freaks? Who is saying that public schools should teach Christianity?
It's right here on this very thread!

Quote:
You mean Christmas? Yeah, that's really religious
Well, for me it isn't but to Christians it is.

I'll head over to read the article shortly, but I'd love nothing more than getting rid of public schools altogether, provided there was an opportunity by whatever other means for everyone to receive a good education.

Public schools are tools used by ruling governments of the day to indoctrinate children. And people are still oblivious because they've been indoctrinated themselves. Being a person who was schooled during the apartheid government in South Africa, I know exactly how those tactics work.
 
  #25  
Old 12-03-2009, 03:26 PM
Allen Farlow Allen Farlow is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 01-13-09
Posts: 1,429
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beebleberry
Public schools are tools used by ruling governments of the day to indoctrinate children. And people are still oblivious because they've been indoctrinated themselves.
Exactly, and what better way to do it than to alter textbooks little by little to twist history to suit their purpose and provide lesson plans for teachers that do the same thing.

Many parents do not play an active role in their child's education, thinking that public schools know best...Someone posted above that parents should not let public schools determine what their children believe. Unfortunately, many parents don't know what to believe, so how can they instill their beliefs in their children?
 
  #26  
Old 12-03-2009, 06:11 PM
anonymously anonymously is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 02-14-08
Location: UK
Posts: 1,493
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post

Well, I have no problem with that...until those different from us insist on forcing their ways and manners upon us here in America, while at the same time demanding that we stop doing what we have always done. (That's what they are doing right now in Europe.)

Yeah, I definitely have a problem with that.
Not sure which bit of Europe you refer to.

But in the Uk it is still mandated to have a substantially Christian act of worship in state schools. Though the religious education syllabus does include teaching children about other faiths.

Our faith schools operate differently.
 
  #27  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:18 PM
Jim Gillum's Avatar
Jim Gillum Jim Gillum is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: 11-17-09
Location: Deland, Florida
Posts: 7,263
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Maybe if more people would take the time to read the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution we would all be happier......
 
  #28  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:52 PM
Cricket's Avatar
Cricket Cricket is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: Texas
Posts: 42,181
iTrader: 0 / 0%
In my daughter's high school, every morning they stand to say the Pledge of Allegiance for both the US and the Texas flag. This is followed by a one minute moment of silence.
 
  #29  
Old 12-04-2009, 10:25 AM
Allen Farlow Allen Farlow is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 01-13-09
Posts: 1,429
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Cricket, could you please ask your daughter if they still include the phrase "one nation under God"?

Thanks.

Allen
 
  #30  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:27 PM
Cricket's Avatar
Cricket Cricket is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: Texas
Posts: 42,181
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen Farlow View Post
Cricket, could you please ask your daughter if they still include the phrase "one nation under God"?

Thanks.

Allen
Yes, it does, as does our Texas allegiance.
 
  #31  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:46 PM
anonymously anonymously is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 02-14-08
Location: UK
Posts: 1,493
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Does it say which 'god'?
 
  #32  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:48 PM
Cricket's Avatar
Cricket Cricket is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: Texas
Posts: 42,181
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymously View Post
Does it say which 'god'?
Nope.
 
  #33  
Old 12-04-2009, 05:07 PM
anonymously anonymously is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 02-14-08
Location: UK
Posts: 1,493
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Isn't that interesting.
 
  #34  
Old 12-05-2009, 02:32 PM
Allen Farlow Allen Farlow is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 01-13-09
Posts: 1,429
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Thank you, Cricket. And God bless the Republic of Texas.

Why do you find that interesting, anonymously? Which God...what makes the difference? Is God not God, whatever you want to call 'God'?

The Pledge of Allegiance mentions "one nation, under God" and I've always assumed it meant whatever your version of God happened to be, whatever you thought 'God' was.

For those of you who wish to, for those of you who desire to help stop this 'Get God out of America' campaign, here's an email I just received. I just happen to have $50 to send to the ACLU, but it won't be in cash...

Here's the email:


What a clever idea!

Yes, Christmas cards. This is coming early so that you can get ready to include an important address to your list.

Want to have some fun this CHRISTMAS? Send the ACLU a CHRISTMAS CARD this year.

As they are working so very hard to get rid of the CHRISTMAS part of this holiday, we should all send them a nice, CHRISTIAN card to brighten up their dark, sad, little world..

Make sure it says "Merry Christmas" on it.

Here's the address, please don't be rude or crude:
ACLU
125 Broad Street
18th Floor
New York , NY 10004

Two tons of Christmas cards would freeze their operations because they wouldn't know if any were regular mail containing contributions. So spend 44 cents and tell the ACLU to leave Christmas alone. Also tell them that there is no such thing as a " Holiday Tree". . . It's always been called a CHRISTMAS TREE!

And pass this on to your email lists. We really want to communicate this message to the ACLU!!!

For those of you who aren't aware of them, the ACLU, (the American Civil Liberties Union) is the one suing the U.S. Government to take God, Christmas or anything Christian away from us. They represent the atheists and others in this war. Help put Christ back in Christmas!

(End of email.)


While I'm on my soapbox, here's another example of that beloved 'inclusiveness'...

A school principle allowed a tree to be erected in the school hallway before Thanksgiving. It was called a Giving Tree, not a Christmas tree.

Yet when students returned after the holiday break, the tree was gone, replaced by a couple snowmen figures.

What prompted the change? Someone complained that it was a Christmas tree and was a religious symbol!

OH, NO! SOMEONE WAS OFFENDED!!!

Yeah? So what?! Get over it! Since when did minority groups get to make decisions for the majority?

Watch this video from the local news near Bellevue, Oregon and make up your own mind about it.

I think it further splits the community and makes life less worth living.

http://video.ktvl.com/m/27736355/ash...stmas-tree.htm
 
  #35  
Old 12-05-2009, 05:32 PM
anonymously anonymously is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 02-14-08
Location: UK
Posts: 1,493
iTrader: 0 / 0%
I found it interesting because I reckon the chances were that when that was written no one ever dreamt that could be interpreted any other way but a Christian God. But it now carries different connotations, but some would not want it to be inclusive going by the way the UK is presently changing.

Your comments
Quote:
The Pledge of Allegiance mentions "one nation, under God" and I've always assumed it meant whatever your version of God happened to be, whatever you thought 'God' was.
seems to me to be in conflict with your statement earlier in this thread
Quote:
Do you not think it is because of church that we have state in the U.S.? The U.S. was founded upon religious principles, yes? And have past presidents not gotten on their knees in times of doubt and asked for divine leadership? We in the U.S. are all free to worship as we see fit, yes, but if we lose our foundation will the house not crumble?
which says to me that you are afraid of really having religious tolerance and equality. If Christianity is the greatest religion it will survive anyway, won't it?
 
  #36  
Old 12-05-2009, 07:44 PM
John Scott's Avatar
John Scott John Scott is offline
Individualist
 
Join Date: 09-27-03
Location: Wherever I want.
Posts: 28,046
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Quote:
which says to me that you are afraid of really having religious tolerance and equality.
I'd like to see that argument in a syllogism. The statement you quote does not support that conclusion.
Quote:
I found it interesting because I reckon the chances were that when that was written no one ever dreamt that could be interpreted any other way but a Christian God.
"Under God" was officially incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954. Chances are, it was a Christian God they were referring to, but the wording itself leaves plenty of room for non-Christian and even a non-religious God (deism).
 
  #37  
Old 12-06-2009, 05:36 PM
anonymously anonymously is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 02-14-08
Location: UK
Posts: 1,493
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Though I suspect that the capital 'G' gives it away and that any god other than the Christian God would have small letters.

Quote:
We in the U.S. are all free to worship as we see fit, yes, but if we lose our foundation will the house not crumble?
for me this statement expresses a fear that if Christianity is not the main stay of US the house will crumble thus pointing to a requirement to protect it against competing religions.

If your figures for those having some tangible outward show for Christianity, like going to church, are anything like the UK then the house must be ready to crumble because the percentage here is tiny.

I reckon that taking Christmas out of trees and festivals and cards may be just what the church should be asking for and I reckon if I asked a dozen people in the street here if they were concerned about losing Christmas, I am sure that most would show no concern so long as they could have cards (we are showing a return to religious cards here!), presents, decorated pines, feasting, parties and plenty of booze. That's really Christmas anyway, isn't it?
 
  #38  
Old 12-07-2009, 12:12 AM
John Scott's Avatar
John Scott John Scott is offline
Individualist
 
Join Date: 09-27-03
Location: Wherever I want.
Posts: 28,046
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Quote:
Though I suspect that the capital 'G' gives it away and that any god other than the Christian God would have small letters.
Actually, one need not be a Christian, or even a theist, to understand that proper nouns are capitalized. Thus I say I have a son, but I don't capitalize the "s" in son because it is a common noun. But if I refer to him by name, Jake, then I am using a proper noun and capitalize it.

If we are referring to a category or concept, we don't capitalize because those are common nouns. If we refer to a singular entity, whether we believe in it or not, then we capitalize it.

Common - members of a class.
Proper - particular.

In the case of God, it may refer to a cosmic force, an impersonal higher intelligence, any number of god concepts.

In the early part of American history, many of the intellectuals were deists, not Christian, and they often referred to God in their writing, and knowing proper English, they capitalized the "g".
 
  #39  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:28 AM
anonymously anonymously is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 02-14-08
Location: UK
Posts: 1,493
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott View Post

Common - members of a class.
Proper - particular.

In the case of God, it may refer to a cosmic force, an impersonal higher intelligence, any number of god concepts.
If this refers to any number of god concepts that makes it common and should only carry a small 'g'.

The capital for God, meant the only one. the notion of god is always a concept and therefore at the time of this being put together it's capitalisation stood for the one true God which would have been Christian. The wriggle room has been invented since.
 
  #40  
Old 12-07-2009, 04:35 AM
turf turf is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: 08-30-09
Posts: 819
iTrader: 2 / 100%
i'm not a Chistian thuogh but Merry Christmas.
 
Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Merry Christmas! stmcgill New Member Introductions 5 12-29-2008 10:56 PM
MERRY CHRISTMAS! Sheen91 Forum Lobby 21 12-26-2007 01:27 PM
Merry Christmas! eDom.co.uk Forum Lobby 2 12-25-2006 01:13 AM
Merry Christmas... joecacia Forum Lobby 8 12-15-2006 08:09 AM
Merry Christmas LazyJim Graphic Design Forum 6 12-25-2004 12:17 PM


V7N Network
Get exposure! V7N I Love Photography V7N SEO Blog V7N Directory


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:01 AM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Copyright © 2003 - 2018 VIX-WomensForum LLC