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  #41  
Old 01-19-2012, 06:25 PM
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Hey Buddy, you are preaching to the choir here, with me. Ron Paul is the only "real candidate" in the race. He is an American and patriot first, a candidate second, or somewhere at the end of the list a politician.

I sincerely regret not having voted for Ross Perot when he ran. Given the opportunity I will vote for Ron Paul.
 
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  #42  
Old 01-19-2012, 06:49 PM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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Originally Posted by ScriptMan View Post
I will vote for Ron Paul.
Good choice buddy
 
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  #43  
Old 01-19-2012, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robjones View Post
If he's not breaking any laws, which based on the article seems to be the case, what's your point? If you don't like the tax code that's an issue to take up with your elected officials, but IMO... anyone that pays the IRS a dime more than required by law is too stupid to guard my sandwich while I go buy a drink, much less direct national economic policy.
It amazes me how tone deaf you and elite of both parties appear to be.
You are so fixed on what is 'legal' you appear to have no concern for what
is "right'.

This is the fact: the game is 'freaking rigged'.
Mitt as an example is no exception.

Quote:
"Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all."

Adam Smith
Neither major party will reveal the corruption
because it would reveal their own.
A pox on both their houses.

Last edited by rabble; 01-19-2012 at 09:26 PM.
 
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  #44  
Old 01-20-2012, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
It amazes me how tone deaf you and elite of both parties appear to be.
You are so fixed on what is 'legal' you appear to have no concern for what
is "right'.

This is the fact: the game is 'freaking rigged'.
Oh... Then you must be the one that voluntarily gives the IRS than the law requires.
How much extra did you pay to prove you'd rather be right than just legal?

If your problem is with the tax code, not the behavior, direct ire at the code, not someone that did *exactly* what you did... paid the amount required. Otherwise, watch who you point an accusatory finger at and call names.

Our tax code is a travesty, needs to be redone from scratch, but I'd say that, not belittle someone that mirrored my own practice.

Nothing is so tone deaf as a pot calling a kettle black.

Last edited by robjones; 01-20-2012 at 06:09 AM.
 
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  #45  
Old 01-20-2012, 09:59 AM
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yeah, right Rob.
What a bunch of obvious redirection.
and so obviously an attempt to fight
a differant battle than the one here engaged.

I notice you left out the heart of my contention:

Quote:
Mitt as an example is no exception.

Quote:
"Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all."

Adam Smith
Neither major party will reveal the corruption
because it would reveal their own.
The real issue is 'Was Mitt Romney a vulture capitalist at Bain Capital?'
Money in the Cayman Islands seems to fit the stereotype.
 
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  #46  
Old 01-20-2012, 11:33 AM
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Do firetrucks cause fires? Well, it CAN be proven, so maybe so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabble
The real issue is 'Was Mitt Romney a vulture capitalist at Bain Capital?'
Money in the Cayman Islands seems to fit the stereotype.
What you have there is a very good example of a very common logical fallacy.

Fallacy: Non-Significant Correlation
Can't recall the formal name, but here's another example of the same fallacy in action, only a little more apparent.
  • Heart surgeons drive very expensive cars.
  • Mitt Romney drives a very expensive car.
  • Conclusion: Mitt Romney is a heart surgeon.
Hey, seems to fit the stereotype.

More fun with statistics, correlation, causation, etc....
  • San Francisco has stats on fires: number of firetrucks at each fire, property damage at each, etc....
  • Fires with more firetrucks present had more damage than those with less.
  • Conclusion: Firetrucks cause property damage, and the more you send the worse it will be.

Without considering correlation and causation... statistics can be 100% accurate and the resulting conclusion 100% false.

Last edited by robjones; 01-20-2012 at 01:21 PM.
 
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  #47  
Old 01-20-2012, 05:31 PM
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so ... 'where there's smoke there's fire' has no validity whatsoever?
whatever.

The public as a whole is going to decide what is important and what matters,
not 35% of a 30% minority party.

Last edited by rabble; 01-20-2012 at 05:37 PM.
 
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  #48  
Old 01-20-2012, 07:14 PM
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Well, Rabble, as shown above, the same "where there's smoke there's fire" argument can just as conclusively suggest he's a heart surgeon, since the evidence you've determined is "smoke" is by not even close to being limited to vulture capitalists... just typically to the wealthy.

Pretty sure we already knew he was wealthy.

A of course the prior appeal for his guilt was similarly constructed on a fallacy, in that case called "special pleading"... since the the behavior to which you object (paying not a dime more to the IRS than required by law) is OK if you do it, but morally "wrong" when he does. Apparently the wealthy are expected to be perfectly willing to ignore potential tax breaks but it's OK for you to take any breaks available.

I'd be interested to know why you don't skip a few deductions just to display this moral superiority in action.


Guess we'll find out if the "public as a whole" is similarly adept at falling for accusations entirely based on arguments that don't bear close scrutiny.

BTW - In both cases you cited earlier...the companies went bankrupt after Romney left to go run the Salt Lake Olympics. You're batting a great big goose egg.

Last edited by robjones; 01-20-2012 at 07:23 PM.
 
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  #49  
Old 01-20-2012, 07:17 PM
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I have seen smoke with no fire. Watch my wife cook bread and you can see it also.

Then there are smoke bombs, though my son did manage to set the neighbor's dry lawn on fire with one of those. Never saw a 6 year old run so fast in your life.
 
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  #50  
Old 01-21-2012, 12:21 AM
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Oh well. Enjoy your primaries.
I've had my say.
 
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  #51  
Old 01-22-2012, 09:33 AM
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While youre out maybe play a rousing game of "Fun with judging others by stereotype".
Game 1: Spot the convicted felon.

=================================

Added: Fun with Irony - How's the White House feel about Bain?
Gotta love this. The quote below is George Stephanopolis interviewing Obama strategy magician David Axelrod.
Jan 8, 2012 - David Axelrod: Mitt Romney’s ‘Bain Mentality’ Will Undermine His Appeal
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ne-his-appeal/
Quote:
President Obama’s chief campaign strategist David Axelrod today on “This Week” honed his two-pronged attack on GOP frontrunner Mitt Romney, insisting the former Bain Capital CEO’s record and shifting policy positions will undermine his general election appeal.
“Frankly I don’t think bringing a Bain mentality to this economy — to running this economy — makes him a strong candidate,” Axelrod told me. “I don’t think shifting and moving around on positions – fundamental positions – is one that people are going to embrace.”
“Trust is a big issue in the presidency,” he said. “I think there’s a big trust issue here.”
Jan 22, 2012 - 2 weeks after quote above, Obama announces budget director appointment....
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...get-director/1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barack Obama
"I'm pleased to designate Jeff Zients to lead the Office of Management and Budget. Since day one, Jeff has demonstrated superb judgment and has provided sound advice on a whole host of issues," said President Obama. "With decades of experience, Jeff has been a tremendous asset to our team and I'm confident in his ability to help us rebuild an economy where hard work and responsibility pay off and the middle class has a chance to get ahead."
Pssst... Lets talk "trust issues"
Does anyone notice a mention that Obama's new budget guru honed his skills at Bain & Co.?
Pick a side for Gods sake... Either Bain experience is or isnt a sign of being evil, but it cant really be both.
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Last edited by robjones; 01-22-2012 at 10:58 AM.
 
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  #52  
Old 01-23-2012, 05:49 AM
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If what Romney was doing was so wrong, why didn't somebody in power stop him?
And why is nobody saying much about the companies he saved?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Romney fan.
But I don't think this is really an issue.
 
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  #53  
Old 01-23-2012, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
If what Romney was doing was so wrong, why didn't somebody in power stop him?
And why is nobody saying much about the companies he saved?
IF he was guilty as charged he broke no US laws that were in force at that time. The corporate raider business was extremely lucrative for a period of time before coming under some regulation. IMO all the raiders broke the laws of morality.
 
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  #54  
Old 01-23-2012, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ScriptMan View Post
IF he was guilty as charged he broke no US laws that were in force at that time. The corporate raider business was extremely lucrative for a period of time before coming under some regulation. IMO all the raiders broke the laws of morality.
I'd be willing to extend benefit of the doubt, here.
There were many companies he put his hand to that grew and prospered, providing jobs.
Not every company, but then again, nobody's perfect.
If he were the type to simply slice and dice, he would have done that with most or all of the companies he got his hands on and that's not the case.
 
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