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  #1  
Old 02-28-2012, 10:39 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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The Secret Media War of 2012

Quote:
"See this room? Two-thirds of us laid off when Ron Paul is president." A hot microphone picked up a reporter attacking Ron Paul recently before a Pentagon briefing began.

We are currently in the middle of the long war of the Internet Reformation, although the press will never mention this. Effectively, there has been an ongoing war between the non-controlled alternative media and the establishment media since the inception of LewRockwell.com in 1999. Since then many quality alternative media websites have been added to the competition while the elite media's credibility, reach and ability to manipulate debate and public opinion has been declining. The Internet Reformation is slowly winning and to date, this has been shown most clearly with the 2012 Ron Paul presidential campaign.

The GOP neocon puppet-masters are terrified, especially when Republican crowds at televised debates cheer Ron Paul's non-interventionist foreign policy remarks because this threatens their control over US foreign policy in what was formerly their secure home turf. Try as they might the media has not been able to destroy the Ron Paul Campaign.
http://thedailybell.com/3647/Ron-Hol...ia-War-of-2012

So after reading this article, what do you believe establishment media or alternative media?
 
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2012, 02:15 PM
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I've been a believer in some, though not a majority, of alternative media over the standard media format for a time now. After seeing things like the ATF getting busted for selling guns to drug mafias in Mexico so that they could bring them back into the country so that there could be a continuation of their war on drugs and guns, my speculations began to actually take root. And I could go on and on about things that many people believe in that are beginning to be proven false.

There are so many things the standard media either leave out or change entirely to fit whatever political agenda is backing them. So, that being stated, I'll always choose a more credible alternative media source over Fox News, etc. It's just a shame that most people still buy into what's being stated at face value just because it comes from "authority" such as the reasoning for the "NDAA" amongst other things because they're for "our protection." They do this and then tout alternative media and anyone who feels it represents more of the truth as conspiracy theorists. Well, you're doing one thing right. Exactly what the mainstream media wants you to do.

As for Ron Paul, they've been waging a campaign against the likes of him for years now. It started with a blackout until they realized that he's within the final 4 at this time, so now they dig up dirt and mud, sling it around, and then portray him to the ignorant and naive people as some complete radical idiot that will ruin the country while simultaneously backing candidates like the true right wing radical, bible thumping Rick Santorum. Sounds like hypocrisy at its finest to me.
 
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  #3  
Old 02-29-2012, 07:08 AM
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I never had much of a taste for most mainstream TV.
I don't care about the Kardashians, nor Lindsay Lohan, nor Paris Hilton.
I know the networks employ their use as filler and eye candy to take your eyes off of what's important.
That's been the case for a very long time.
But I've even stopped watching the News on TV as I have seen with my own eyes that it also can't be trusted anymore.

My kids (as well as some of their friends, I suspect) will be learning the value of not just taking authorities at their word and checking into things for themselves.
It takes more effort than accepting the spoon feeding from the main stream media, but it's so much more worth it and fits reality better than what the main stream is telling us.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:59 AM
Nealrm Nealrm is offline
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"Secret Media War" he really must be joking. The is NOTHING secret in that the newspapers and TV have been battling to provide content with the internet. This is about as much of a secret as the sun raising in the morning. Then he follows it up with the GOP being terrified about that. The GOP and TV news have been at odds with each other for several decades. Weakening TV support would be a benefit for them. Currently the GOP media stronghold is radio, an area that has not be greatly effected by the internet to date.

That said I am not a fan of main street news, but I'm even less of a fan of the alternative. Yes, main street news is bias, they tend to reduce complex stories down to sound bits that don't always fit and TV news and entertainment in general is very strongly liberal, but at least there is some framework in place in place to check the facts.

On the other side you have every nut job and wacko that can put together a webpage writing a blog or an article and spouting it off as news. No one other than them and their keyboard to review and question the facts. The linked article is a prime example. It starts with a widely know fact that it tries to portray as a secret and them moves into half-truths, false statements, options stated as facts and general garbage.

What worries me even more is that alternative media can form feadback loops. This is were a website reports on a public idea without verify it's creditably. Then the public using the website report to prove the idea is actually factual. In simple terms, "Something has to be true because everyone says it is true'.
 
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  #5  
Old 02-29-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealrm View Post
"That said I am not a fan of main street news, but I'm even less of a fan of the alternative. Yes, main street news is bias, they tend to reduce complex stories down to sound bits that don't always fit and TV news and entertainment in general is very strongly liberal, but at least there is some framework in place in place to check the facts.
If you've been paying attention, this is the case more and more with the main stream media as well.
You have to be selective about where you get your news from and you have to do some fact checking on your own with alternative media.
But that is also the case with the main stream media as well.
You shouldn't accept what they tell you as fact any more than what the alternative media reports on.
Main stream media has no built in credibility or truthfulness. It must also be scrutinized.
 
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  #6  
Old 02-29-2012, 08:10 AM
Nealrm Nealrm is offline
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Zap - That statement was about the main street news.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:39 AM
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I actually find I get a lot more 'news' by watching the ticker tape news feed at the bottom
of the screen on cable news channels. Then I can jump on line and find out what the news tape is talking about.
As for the talking heads ... well, I think we all realize they are all getting paid to do what they do. Right?
Anyone who doesn't tow the 'corporate approved' message is immediately canned.
Judge Napolitano and Pat Buchanan are just two recent examples.

As for me ... a primary news source is DemocracyNow.
 
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  #8  
Old 02-29-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealrm View Post
Zap - That statement was about the main street news.
The part I directly quoted, yes.
But your post touched on the unreliability of information obtained from alternative sources and the fact checking that main stream media employs.

My point was that the main stream media has no built in credibility.
They are just as liable to misrepresent the truth or dispense with fact checking as other sources.
 
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  #9  
Old 02-29-2012, 09:09 AM
Nealrm Nealrm is offline
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Quote:
They [main stream media] are just as liable to misrepresent the truth or dispense with fact checking as other sources.
I don't agree with that. With main stream media the story starts with a writer, and is then reviewed by an editor. The editor in turn reports to a upper manager or CEO, who reports to a board, who reports to the owners or stock holders. All this is funded by advertisers that don't want their names tied to a news agency with a tarnish reputation. Yes - the system is far from perfect, by at least there is something in place.

On the alternative side you have either a single person or a small group of individuals generating the news. The group is of the same mindset so there is really no validity check on the facts or thought process. In truth I or anyone can start a news website for under $10 that states ANYTHING that we want it to.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:35 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealrm View Post
"Secret Media War" he really must be joking. The is NOTHING secret in that the newspapers and TV have been battling to provide content with the internet. This is about as much of a secret as the sun raising in the morning. Then he follows it up with the GOP being terrified about that. The GOP and TV news have been at odds with each other for several decades. Weakening TV support would be a benefit for them. Currently the GOP media stronghold is radio, an area that has not be greatly effected by the internet to date.

That said I am not a fan of main street news, but I'm even less of a fan of the alternative. Yes, main street news is bias, they tend to reduce complex stories down to sound bits that don't always fit and TV news and entertainment in general is very strongly liberal, but at least there is some framework in place in place to check the facts.

On the other side you have every nut job and wacko that can put together a webpage writing a blog or an article and spouting it off as news. No one other than them and their keyboard to review and question the facts. The linked article is a prime example. It starts with a widely know fact that it tries to portray as a secret and them moves into half-truths, false statements, options stated as facts and general garbage.

What worries me even more is that alternative media can form feadback loops. This is were a website reports on a public idea without verify it's creditably. Then the public using the website report to prove the idea is actually factual. In simple terms, "Something has to be true because everyone says it is true'.
Actually, alternative media use often establisment sources. One thing to remember is that editors in alternative media dig the information where most of the time important news are not featured on the first page of these sources.

Now if we talk about the interpretation of the news by alternative media, then we can be vary.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:51 AM
Nealrm Nealrm is offline
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Does reshuffling the order of the stories really count as being an alternative news source. The news in that cause is still coming from the same source, its just the order that is being changed.
 
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  #12  
Old 02-29-2012, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealrm View Post
Does reshuffling the order of the stories really count as being an alternative news source. The news in that cause is still coming from the same source, its just the order that is being changed.
I think that does matter. Yes.
 
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  #13  
Old 02-29-2012, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealrm View Post
I don't agree with that. With main stream media the story starts with a writer, and is then reviewed by an editor. The editor in turn reports to a upper manager or CEO, who reports to a board, who reports to the owners or stock holders.
Traditionally, yes. Lately? Not so much.
News teams are now in such fierce competition with each other that stories often go unchecked before airing.
All in the name of not getting scooped.
Google "fake news" or "news fact check fail" and you'll see countless examples of stories from all sources (including main stream) that should have never made it past the reporting stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealrm View Post
All this is funded by advertisers that don't want their names tied to a news agency with a tarnish reputation. Yes - the system is far from perfect, by at least there is something in place.
Bingo. And all too often we see stories that get buried because they wouldn't shed a favourable light on those advertisers.
Money makes the world go around, even more than accurate news reporting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealrm View Post
On the alternative side you have either a single person or a small group of individuals generating the news. The group is of the same mindset so there is really no validity check on the facts or thought process. In truth I or anyone can start a news website for under $10 that states ANYTHING that we want it to.
Alternative media CAN be what you say. But they can also be something along the lines of RT or AlJezeera.
Those are not small groups of people with no oversight.

Have a look at main stream coverage of the GOP debates and the gymnastics they employ to avoid referring to Ron Paul in any way, shape or form.
It's ridiculous! If Ron Paul is 3rd in a poll, they will talk about #1, #2 and #4 as if the third spot didn't exist. It would be funny if it weren't so blatant and biased.

If you're giving the main stream media an automatic pass on a credibility check, you're a dying breed.
People are smarter than that these days and they expect more.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:05 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealrm View Post
Does reshuffling the order of the stories really count as being an alternative news source. The news in that cause is still coming from the same source, its just the order that is being changed.
It is what I said: Now if we talk about the interpretation of the news by alternative media, then we can be vary.

I don't consider alternative media as reshuffing, but rather as dispatchers.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
If you're giving the main stream media an automatic pass on a credibility check, you're a dying breed.
I'm a long way from giving them an automatic pass. I believe that I already stated they are bias, highly liberal, and downgrade complex stories down to simple sound bites.

Zap - Are we counting foreign media outlets as alternative. AlJezeera is a stated owned media outlet. It is owned by the state of Qatar through the Qatar Media Corporation. So for the purpose of this discussion are we defining alternative media as anything that is not a big US owned company??

Natural - Sorry if what I think I read is not what you thought you wrote .

Last edited by Nealrm; 02-29-2012 at 10:54 AM.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:59 AM
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I've read the article, but several questions remain on the nature of the "war" and who is actually fighting.

Mainstream media vs the internet?
Political elite vs people?
Mainstream media vs alternative media?
Ron Paul vs the general establishment?
Other political candidates vs Ron Paul?
Different economic schools?

Presidential elections tend to be great setting for public conflicts of interest.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kju385 View Post
I've read the article, but several questions remain on the nature of the "war" and who is actually fighting.

Mainstream media vs the internet?
Political elite vs people?
Mainstream media vs alternative media?
Ron Paul vs the general establishment?
Other political candidates vs Ron Paul?
Different economic schools?

Presidential elections tend to be great setting for public conflicts of interest.

Yes to all of the above.

I think the point was that it's basically the mainstream media portraying one thing and alternative sources portraying another. Some of that does involve their portrayal of Ron Paul, but the bigger picture is that there is a huge difference. So in essence, it's alternative media's views vs. the corporate, establishment media's views.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:27 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nealrm View Post
Natural - Sorry if what I think I read is not what you thought you wrote .
We can disagree, but the logic behind the disagreement is the most interesting to debate
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:30 AM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfyre7896 View Post
So in essence, it's alternative media's views vs. the corporate, establishment media's views.
Excellent point Sunfyre7896.

We didn't talk yet about the establisment censure. Just a recent event like the veterans march to Washington was censured by them.
 
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:14 PM
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establisment censure - Get real. It didn't get covered because it was a NOTHING event. The RT put the number at at hundreds. The parade De Barkus (The dog Mardi gras parade) had more people than that and I would expect it to receive nationwide new reports.

Given the media reporting on Clinton love life and all the negative Bush W reporting, I really can't see any proof that the our government has the ability to censure much. If the government had that much control, all we would be hearing is good news about the economy, instead of the negative garbage that is being put out.

Last edited by Nealrm; 02-29-2012 at 12:25 PM.
 
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