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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2012, 05:05 PM
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Say Goodbye To The Right To Protest

Just don't do it anywhere near the secret service, or a politician, or a building...

HR 347

It's a good thing we have all those soldiers that are fighting to "protect our freedoms".
We're losing freedoms fast enough as it is.
Imagine how fast they'd be disappearing without the wars to protect them.

Seriously. Is there anyone left who is under the false impression that The Constitution is still valid?
None of your leaders are under that impression, with the small exception of the 3 who voted against this.
And, yes, Ron Paul was one of them.
 
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:53 PM
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Actually Zap, Ron Paul didn't vote.

Final Vote

There was a little bit of good news this week though.
A jury in Iowa City found first occupy protester to go to trial 'not guilty' of trespass.
Would seem the jury agreed with the argument that 1st Amendment rights trump
local trespass laws.

Polk County jury finds Fallon not guilty of trespassing during Occupy Des Moines protest
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:10 PM
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The right to protest should not make disruption a right.....
There are many effective methods to protest without infringing on the rights of others....
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Gillum View Post
The right to protest should not make disruption a right.....
There are many effective methods to protest without infringing on the rights of others....
I agree to this Jim, though it is tough to get the system to sit up and listen without getting their attention.

We are seeing this on a worldwide scale at the moment as people from everywhere are getting out and protesting about their governments, and with enough disruption, they do finally get up and listen.

How much can people take being lied to, stolen from as governments and financial institutions find new legal (and ilegal) ways of atealing ones money. Financial system getting away with financial genocide and the government still allowing the big boys to get their bonuses?

And then people wonder why protestors are pee'd off, have had enough and are disrupting the system and causing chaos.... Ok, there are the people there just for trouble and nothing to do with the protest but this happens in most all situations.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:32 AM
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We had a few make headlines over this side. I can understand why they need to protest, but what gets me is that they warn first that if government don't comply, they will protest, there's no "peaceful" involved. I think that union bosses have given up on even trying to get a peaceful protest going. With the thought of the disruption and even the deaths and severe injuries that go with some of the ones held here, you'd think these union bosses would get the point and find other ways of doing things. but, sadly no.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:56 AM
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Thanks for introducing me to the SOTT website. If and when that website disappears, I'll know that the Yankee fascists have managed to censor the web.

Of course, we have to bear in mind who voted Mr Obama into power. (You Yanks did, in case you have forgotten!)

Hands up all the liberals who voted for Mr Obama because he was black! No doubt the liberals thought that a charming black chap who speaks good English could never become a fascist dictator. (They never thought to look at Africa, a whole continent with countries ruled by charming black chaps who speak good English, but who are nonetheless fascist dictators.)

Hmmm... Come to think of it, perhaps the SOTT website is just a honeypot, which has logged my IP so that the CIA can keep tabs on me. Never mind. Even if they can trace through my proxy, I live in a free country where I can protest against my own government safely, let alone criticize the US president.

Just think. If the Yanks had never rebelled against the wise and benevolent British Crown, they too would still be living in a free country!
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:33 AM
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@ C0ldf1re - I think that may be a bit harsh as what one has to remember is that the president is only the front man and does not actually have a major opinion into what goes on within a country, same with our system, the prime minister only does what he is told by the people controlling behind him.

I would not blame the president for this as chances are, if the powers that be wanted it to happen then it would no matter who is in power.

As for rebelling against the crown, even though I am a Brit, they had no choice as we were trying to tax them and they were having none of it. Good on them.

Your comment about people voting for the president because of his skin colour does actually hold true as a lot of people admitted voting for him because "he is one of us". Granted if that happened on the basis of a white, RACISM would be screamed from the rooftops.

Btw, careful with the "yanks" comments as you'll probably get your arse burnt, too many of them here to push down this route
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabble View Post
Actually Zap, Ron Paul didn't vote.

Final Vote
Odd. It depends on who you listen to, I guess.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2011-149
It is being reported that he voted against.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Gillum View Post
The right to protest should not make disruption a right.....
There are many effective methods to protest without infringing on the rights of others....
The government is limiting those effective methods. That's what this law is all about.
And governments rarely take notice until they are inconvenienced.
So, you're basically advocating for peaceful protests only as long as they don't amount to any real change.
My question is "Why bother, then?".

Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
I agree to this Jim, though it is tough to get the system to sit up and listen without getting their attention.

We are seeing this on a worldwide scale at the moment as people from everywhere are getting out and protesting about their governments, and with enough disruption, they do finally get up and listen.
Bingo. Governments ignore protests for as long as they possibly can.
It's only when the protesters inconvenience the government enough that they start to listen.
 
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
... the president is only the front man and ... only does what he is told by the people controlling behind him...
Silly naive me! There was I thinking that the person elected to become the most powerful man in the world might show a little courage and dignity. Couldn't he just say, "No!" to any pressure to force him to act in an oppressive and unconstitutional way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
... As for rebelling against the crown, even though I am a Brit, they had no choice as we were trying to tax them...
The way I heard it, the noble and generous British Crown (with a capital 'C', if you don't mind!) spent more on defending the American colonists from the frog-eating french (with a lower-case 'f' in this case) and their savage indian allies, than was ever recouped in taxes.

Furthermore, the way I heard it, American taxes went up after the rebellion, and they still pay more taxes than we do.

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Originally Posted by G10 View Post
... Btw, careful with the "yanks" comments as you'll probably get your arse burnt...
Which rather proves that I have the essential courage so sadly lacking in the present US president.

How about myself for President? (Pssst... Anybody know a good forger? I need a new birth certificate showing I was born in Arlington, Virginia.)
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0ldf1re View Post
Silly naive me! There was I thinking that the person elected to become the most powerful man in the world might show a little courage and dignity.
You won't find much of either in politics these days.
 
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:51 AM
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Re: Courage and Dignity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
You won't find much of either in politics these days.
A sudden strange fancy comes into my head:

A military dictator is better than a democratically-elected president

Just hear me out before you lynch me!

An aspiring politician in a democracy has to reach power by years of dissembling, compromising, and uttering empty promises. All decent chaps are weeded out, and only the trash reach sufficient prominence to be nominated for president.

A military man may well try to live up to ideals of courage and honour. If he is forced to lead a military coup to save his country from a corrupt civilian government, he may well install himself as a brave and honest dictator.

Does that make sense?
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0ldf1re View Post
If he is forced to lead a military coup to save his country from a corrupt civilian government, he may well install himself as a brave and honest dictator.
I could back that plan if he installs himself just long enough, to install a democratically elected government that actually works FOR the people, and not a day longer.
 
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0ldf1re View Post
...
Seems like nothing more than a post full of Anti-American hatred.

Perhaps you should take a look at the description for this part of the forum again:

Quote:
Respect required at all times.
Your post here is neither respectful or logical in a sense, all you did (as it seems) was throw around a bunch of anti-American stuff with some stereotyping on the side.
 
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:47 AM
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... Your post here is neither respectful or logical in a sense, all you did (as it seems) was throw around a bunch of anti-American stuff with some stereotyping on the side.
Dan! Surely you have known me long enough to realise that it was tongue-in-cheek? If anybody else had missed the joke, and accidentally taken offence, then I would have had to explain and apologise. But surely not to you?
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:25 AM
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We should rejoice!

The legislation could have established a designated
six foot square free speech zone,
actual location of which to be determined
by an equally divided bipartisan committee.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by C0ldf1re View Post
If anybody else had missed the joke, and accidentally taken offence, then I would have had to explain and apologise.
WHAT!!!!!?

No dictator to liberate us?

[YT]zwhL4Lc1VNo[/YT]
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0ldf1re View Post
Silly naive me! There was I thinking that the person elected to become the most powerful man in the world might show a little courage and dignity. Couldn't he just say, "No!" to any pressure to force him to act in an oppressive and unconstitutional way?
It is not as easy as the president just saying no.

The president can only make decisions based on the information presented to him, now (God forbid) but that information can be presented to him in a way that people already know the decision he has to make.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:11 AM
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WHAT!!!!!?... No dictator to liberate us?...
Perhaps there is a dictator-in-waiting. But, and your clip makes the point very well, he certainly isn't posting on a forum in a nice reasonable way. He is probably drinking with his troops right now, and inspiring them to see him as the true embodiment of patriotism.

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It is not as easy as the president just saying no... The president can only make decisions based on the information presented to him, now (God forbid) but that information can be presented to him in a way that people already know the decision he has to make.
How naive of me! There I was thinking that Mr Obama was a jolly clever chap, and it would be hard to fool him. But it seems that it happens all the time. Mr Obama is an experienced constitutional lawyer, but he has just been misled into agreeing to very unconstitutional laws. It was all a mistake, and he cannot be blamed at all. How very silly of me not to have realised that at once.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:39 AM
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How naive of me! There I was thinking that Mr Obama was a jolly clever chap, and it would be hard to fool him. But it seems that it happens all the time. Mr Obama is an experienced constitutional lawyer, but he has just been misled into agreeing to very unconstitutional laws. It was all a mistake, and he cannot be blamed at all. How very silly of me not to have realised that at once.
I never said "he can not be blamed at all", of course as the front man it should be his head on the block. I was just saying that things are not as plain cut as they seem.

Example: Our leaders were fooled into believing that there were wmd's in Iraq.

Who convinced them that this was the case?.... They could only act out on their (reliable hmmm) information that was handed to them.

We don't fully know what goes on behind the scenes but there is no way in heck that the president can be in all places at all times and a lot of his decisions (almost all) are based on the reliable information that is presented to him. Now whether it is presented correctly or not, that is another matter.

Remember, the president tried to bring in a law that allowed scope for more generic drugs and in turn saving a lot of money.

Pharmaceuticals with their spin doctors made sure that this did not come to fruition, no matter what the president did.

I don't care how smart Obama is, there is no way he can understand all the goings on of a nation, that is why he has a team to help and advise him. How they steer that information is another thing.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:53 PM
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... We don't fully know what goes on behind the scenes but there is no way in heck that the president can be in all places at all times and a lot of his decisions (almost all) are based on the reliable information that is presented to him. Now whether it is presented correctly or not, that is another matter. ... I don't care how smart Obama is, there is no way he can understand all the goings on of a nation, that is why he has a team to help and advise him. How they steer that information is another thing.
All of your points are fair and reasonable except in one special case.

Mr Obama is an expert on Constitutional Law. When he is presented with a new bill that directly affects Constitutional Law, you expect him to understand it himself, and not to sign it into law on the basis on relying on his team's advice. Nobody on his team would understand the proposed new law as well as Mr Obama, nor understand its overwhelming importance to US citizens' freedoms and liberty.

Mr Obama knows perfectly well that he should not approve bills that derogate from US Constitutional Rights. It requires an Amendment to the US Constitution to do that. Even I know that, and I am not qualified to practice law in the US. In fact, my knowledge of US Law could be written on the back of a Brandeis Brief. (Spot the lawyer in-joke! )

Right up to the unconstitutional laws, I wished Mr Obama all the best, and would have made the same excuses for him that you have offered.

But not now. Mr Obama has wilfully signed into law measures that are oppressive, unconstitutional and tyrannical. He has done his country a grave and lasting wrong.
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