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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Barr View Post
They care about you having guns because they trust you less than you trust them.
That may be so but ...

Thieves care if the owner of the house they are planning to rob has a gun. Not sure trust is the issue so much as intent ...
 
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post



I'm perfectly happy with my pump 22lr rifle in the rear tool box in the back of the truck (cargo van).

Pistols should be banned.

The above ammunition has no place in a meritorious society.

Breeze, what do you use your .22 for and why do you keep it in your van?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
what do you use your .22 for
Now that you mention it, I'd be curious about that too.

I have a .22 rifle. The only reason I have it is that my Mom gave it to me. When she was a kid, she found it in the woods. My grandpa cleaned it up, built a new stock for it, gave it to her and she used it to shoot at very small game when she was a kid. Don't know how often she got them. She passed it on to me.

I've used it for target shooting a few times. I have to aim a bit low and to the right. But even without that being the case, I don't find myself using it for anything else.

Shotgun, higher caliber rifles, pistols, they all have a purpose for me. But I never really found one for a .22 rifle? Maybe just me though.
 
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post
I'm perfectly happy with my pump 22lr rifle in the rear tool box in the back of the truck (cargo van).
Good for you but a rifle won't work out well for most people.

Quote:
Pistols should be banned.
Local police, county sheriffs, state highway patrols, and various federal law enforcement agencies will have a real problem with that ban. Or does your proposed ban exempt government agencies?

Quote:
The above ammunition has no place in a meritorious society.
If I'm not mistaken (and I could very well be), "the above ammunition" is used by SWAT teams across the country. Does having "no place in a meritorious society" include taking them away from SWAT teams or do you again exempt government agencies from your ban?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
Breeze, what do you use your .22 for and why do you keep it in your van?
I am happy with that much fire power and need no more ... for varmints (moccasins) in the farm pond used for swimming, they do not take to warnings - etc. I live in town ...

The Castle doctrine and Hunting (limited use) are fine otherwise "strict control" should be the rule for all people desiring a public option for firearms, non as the norm - pistols are wholly unnecessary in regards to public regalia and in fact is why they are the choice of criminals as that purpose is their purest use.

Life's purpose is not always what individuals decide it should be by their own creations - the A-Bomb.

*I do have a WWII 8mm Mauser (rifle) at home ...
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 02:56 PM
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Ammo is hard to ID without a visual reference to judge the size against, since many necked cartridges look roughly alike but for scale, but the pic has them in front of a 30 rd Thermold mag for an AR15, and that mag carries .223 Remington / 5.56 NATO... rounds common in both civilian and military use all over the world.

For those that are uncomfortable that an AR15 is not really a deer hunting weapon, its worth mentioning that militias were never to my knowledge mustered to defend against marauding deer. Our country would be a bitch to conquer because taking out our military and police forces would not begin to allow the invader a safe environment. The 2nd is intended to allow citizens the means to avoid personal harm and tyranny from 2 legged varmints. It isnt just a national hunting license.

Quote:
pistols are wholly unnecessary in regards to public regalia and in fact is why they are the choice of criminals as that purpose is their purest use.
Pistols are commonly used for concealed carry by law abiding citizens, and cold hard statistics say that since the increased availability to concealed carry has taken place, millions of crimes have been thwarted without a shot fired and gun crime statistics have improved, not worsened. Stats simply dont support your argument.

On a personal note... I once found myself by pure accident in the presence of an attempted murder and stopped it with a handgun i was taking to use at a western gunfight routine we were planning. Which guy do you think is now beating the drum for tighter gun control... The one that was about to get knifed, or the guy that went to jail for trying?

Handgun bans are nothing but workplace safety legislation to benefit criminals.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dWhite View Post
"It you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns."
I agree with dWhite. If there would be a new law, I would support gun education. Something to the effect of if you own any type of firearm (new or old) then you must attend a training session.

That being said I did a quick search because I know Australia went with the no gun rule. Now I am not 100% sure of the source but it is a interesting read:

"Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:"

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CerealNut View Post
I agree with dWhite. If there would be a new law, I would support gun education. Something to the effect of if you own any type of firearm (new or old) then you must attend a training session.
Unfortunately, any law with such a requirement can be used to require training that's either very expensive or just not available.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Barr View Post

Local police, county sheriffs, state highway patrols, and various federal law enforcement agencies will have a real problem with that ban. Or does your proposed ban exempt government agencies?


If I'm not mistaken (and I could very well be), "the above ammunition" is used by SWAT teams across the country. Does having "no place in a meritorious society" include taking them away from SWAT teams or do you again exempt government agencies from your ban?

The obsession with the above is in itself a statement against a meritorious society ...

where in the Castle Doctrine or the occasion of hunting with Fire Arms is there a requirement for weaponized law enforcement - there is no association but a distinct difference Constitutionally as an interpretation that law enforcement is to be regulated by law and by a meritorious society less armed than its citizenry is the original intent.

Indeed Bob, I would disband all pare-military organizations, SWAT Teams as exp. thought the country.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 08:36 PM
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They could learn some lessons from Canada. We are now dismantling our gun registry. It was supposed to cost a few million but ballooned into billions. Did not work either. Criminals wanting a gun will find one. It made honest farmers and hunters into law breakers because they did not registry their fire arms. Guns do not kill people. People kill people. I would say cars and legal prescription drugs are the biggest killers nowadays.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 09:11 PM
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post
The obsession with the above is in itself a statement against a meritorious society ...

where in the Castle Doctrine or the occasion of hunting with Fire Arms is there a requirement for weaponized law enforcement - there is no association but a distinct difference Constitutionally as an interpretation that law enforcement is to be regulated by law and by a meritorious society less armed than its citizenry is the original intent.

Indeed Bob, I would disband all pare-military organizations, SWAT Teams as exp. thought the country.
What "obsession" are you talking about? You proposed banning pistols. I asked if you proposed banning them for law enforcement as well. Now, you seem to be proposing that law enforcement be disarmed in addition to the civilian population. What a wonderful idea!! Then, all of the criminals, who will still have their guns, can rule society in their usual kind and gentle way.

Do you ever consider the likely consequences of your ideas? Criminals, by definition, break laws. How can you possibly think that any law banning pistols would have any effect whatsoever on people for whom breaking laws is just another part of their job description?
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 09:59 PM
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Oh come on Bob. You know full well that all the murderers and bank robbers would start conscientiously using rifles.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by bob barr
Do you ever consider the likely consequences of your ideas? Criminals, by definition, break laws. How can you possibly think that any law banning pistols would have any effect whatsoever on people for whom breaking laws is just another part of their job description?
You're forgetting a portion of our nation thinks legislation can change everything but maybe the law of gravity.
I'm shocked they haven't thought to put up signs like the one below in Afghanistan yet.

Attached Thumbnails
Gun Sales Explode-guns-sociopath-gun-free-zone-poster.jpg  
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 10:43 PM
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You're forgetting a portion of our nation thinks legislation can change everything but maybe the law of gravity.
I'd rephrase that as: a portion of our nation feels that such legislation would work. I seriously doubt that there's much, if any, thinking involved in that process.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 11:05 PM
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Technically fantasies are a thought process. Not a great one to base legislation on though.



You'd think the shootings that have happened at schools SINCE the "gun free zone" thing became law might be a clue that it isnt working, but there's probably guys that think the signs just need to be bigger and translated into multiple languages.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2012, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CerealNut View Post
I agree with dWhite. If there would be a new law, I would support gun education. Something to the effect of if you own any type of firearm (new or old) then you must attend a training session.

That being said I did a quick search because I know Australia went with the no gun rule. Now I am not 100% sure of the source but it is a interesting read:

"Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:"

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847
That source is rubbish I'm afraid. Australia's homicide rate is one quarter of America's and the crime rate has been falling for years. All or most crime - might be something to do with low unemployment - is falling. An opinion piece:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/societ...306-1ui95.html

I'm very happy to live where guns are almost never discussed and aren't a part of daily life. It makes me feel safer.
 
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2012, 12:25 AM
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It makes me feel safer.
I'd rather carry and actually be safer.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2012, 11:28 AM
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Oh for the days...
When I never found a bad guy with a gun......they always stopped fleeing when I calmly said.."excuse me sir would you mind stopping and putting these cuffs on yourself."

Life must be really interesting outside of the real world.
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Old 03-25-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
I'm very happy to live where guns are almost never discussed and aren't a part of daily life. It makes me feel safer.
The following three home invasion stories were published this month on AUS news sites:

==============================


==============================


==============================


==============================
  • My thoughts:
  • -1- In the first case the bad guy did not have a gun. Is being hacked to death by a machete more or less horrifying than gunshot?

  • -2- In two cases the bad guys had guns. The law abiding homeowners did not. To me that suggests a fundamental flaw in the plan. YMMV.

  • -3- In any of the three cases, if you were the homeowner, would being unarmed be your first choice?
Contrast those with cases where the homeowners were armed:
==============================


==============================

==============================


  • My Thoughts:
  • -1- Both cases of armed defense shown above were chosen because the citizen was a young female facing multiple males.

  • -2- If guns were entirely removed from the picture she would be "on even footing" technology-wise, and a tremendous disadvantage strategically.

  • -3- In one of the cases the gun didn't have to be fired, all that was necessary was that it be shown.

  • -4- One story I didn't grab a screenshot for... a 65 yr old man who was assaulted by three teens. He shot two, the third was jailed. He was their THIRD victim of the day. Had he not stopped them, how many more would have been hurt?

  • -5- Another story I could have shown, a 14 yr old male resident vs 4 male intruders, all in their physical prime. He killed one, three fled. Would he have been safer without a gun?

This is NOT an America is morally superior to Australia post. We have enough crime and enough faults to go around. You guys can choose to do it however you want. My point is that I just don't see a gain in disarming the law abiding populace, so in MY case I'd rather have a fighting chance, and I wouldnt deny it to my neighbors either. Honest people aren't the ones to worry about.

There are people here that share your view, but fortunately they're barred from acting on it by our 2nd amendment.
Attached Thumbnails
Gun Sales Explode-home-invasion-us-1.png   Gun Sales Explode-home-invasion-us-2.png   Gun Sales Explode-home-invasion-aus-1.png   Gun Sales Explode-home-invasion-aus-2.png   Gun Sales Explode-home-invasion-aus-3.png  

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