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Old 04-09-2012, 10:17 AM
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Thumbs down Hitler vs Abortion

Quote:
Does anybody remember Hitler? Watch this film and you’ll be really surprised. Two times. What begins with a debate about Hitler turns into a “discussion” about abortion. The filmmaker even compares abortion with the Holocaust. Is evangelist Ray Comfort awesome/awful or just a smart viral video expert? What do you think? What’s behind this film? http://documentary.net/180-movie-hitler-vs-abortion
Yes, this video is long (a little over 30 minutes) but I challenge you to watch it and respond with your thoughts.

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Old 04-09-2012, 10:39 AM
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I watched this video a while back. I was amazed at how ignorant so many of the people were. I kept wondering how they could be the product of a K-12 educational system.....

That being said, I think it's sad that in our day and age, abortion is still an issue - or that it still even exists. I can see where abortion was ... I guess I can't use the word "necessary" 50 years ago ... when a woman had 11 children and had no access to birth control and everyone was starving.... you can really sympathize.

Today, we are told that abortion does have negative physical ramifications:


http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com/


And it has far reaching unexpected psychological impact:

http://afterabortion.org/2011/aborti...d-to-abortion/

But we're still debating it as a right and it's presented as a normal natural option in reproductive planning. That doesn't seem smart - ethics and morals aside.

The thing that gives me pause is that we do have easy access to birth control today - some of which lasts for months. (And the pill is on the $4 list so you don't even need government to foot the bill - just skip one meal at McDonalds.)

We also have 1000's of parents ready to adopt unexpected children.

So... why do people fight for the right to have abortion instead of standing up for responsible sex adoption, etc etc. And I do mean that as an earnest question, that I'd like to see an answer to.

I don't think this is an easy topic and I see it full of landmines and I personally have a lot of compassion for anyone found in the position of needing to end a pregnancy - I guess I'm just sad it's still an issue.

And related to the video.... I guess in some ways it is fair to compare abortion to the holocaust but I think that's a cheap trick. I am tired of everyone saying, "You're Hitler." That was a pretty singular historical event.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:33 AM
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There are parallels BUT

This is the reason, the pro-choice camp insists fervently that it is NOT a child....because anyone taking the time to actually think about their position logically will come to the same conclusion these people did:

The official "Pro-Choice" position of most politicians that says: "Abortion is wrong, and I would never do it, but it should be a choice for anyone else that wants to do it" is completely illogical within the context of a person who claims to value human life.

And in that particular context...the parallels to Hitler and the Jews are indeed fair. Those that felt it was wrong to kill Jews, would never be able to justify the position that just because they were opposed to it doesn't mean it was alright for Hitler to do it.

The people in this video each came to the same conclusion, that IF you believe it is a child, and IF you believe that murder is wrong and should be stopped, THEN abortion is NEVER justified under any circumstances.

That is also why they (Pro-Choice advocates) oppose any efforts to educate the mothers and show them sonograms that show the baby's heart beat and reactions to sounds at only a couple of weeks old.....because it makes it much harder to convince that mother that it's not REALLY a baby she's opting to kill.

The fact is Planned Parenthood, NOW and all the other organizations don't care about women (let's face it...the babies they are killing are just as likely to be women some day as men....unless you are in China and then the females are almost exclusively the ones chosen to be aborted) they care about money.

Abortion is a big money industry, generating over $1 Billion a year in the U.S. alone.
 
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:02 PM
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Yes, This is the second time this video has been in the threads.
I am pro-choice. The video changes nothing for me.
It IS an excellent example of the psychological manipulation
of religious sentiment.
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Last edited by rabble; 04-09-2012 at 12:12 PM.
 
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:27 PM
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Great, here is my chance to tee off a whole bunch of people at one time.

Abortion can be morally wrong, abortion can be morally OK and abortion can be morally neutral. (Did I do a good job teeing off the extremists on both side)

A health women aborting a healthy baby as a means of birth control is morally wrong. They are killing baby because they are either inconvenient or embarrassing. That is morally wrong.

Unfortunately, in come cases a pregnancy will not result in a child that will live. In those cases it is morally OK to end the pregnancy. It is also morally wrong to harass those that are forced to make this decision.

Then there are cases where the women life is placed in peril due to the pregnancy. There is not a good answer in these cases. They are morally neutral. Support should be offered to those families in this position. It is also morally wrong to harass those that are forced to make this decision.

There are also grey areas that span the areas between the three.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabble View Post
Yes, This is the second time this video has been in the threads.
I am pro-choice. The video changes nothing for me.
It IS an excellent example of the psychological manipulation
of religious sentiment.
I disagree.

This is an example of how you use logic to show someone that their position is inconsistent.

If you are pro-choice because you truly believe it's not a baby and therefore not murder...then there is nothing inconsistent in your beliefs..and therefore the video is not germane to you at all.

HOWEVER, IF like the other people in this video you believe it is a baby and that you are literally killing a baby when you have an abortion... then the position that even though you personally think it's wrong...other people have a right to do it anyway....is completely inconsistent with the belief that people should be stopped from harming others (such as people that said they would have killed Hitler if they had the chance to stop the holocaust)...unless of course you are also a holocaust denier.....then maybe both positions are consistent?
 
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:32 PM
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Obviously people are going to do whatever they want to do so it doesn't matter... what makes people want to do what they do is either based on fear or love.

People get abortions because they fear the outcome. Why? Because a new life might not live up to our standards? Or because we might not live up to the opportunity before us?

Abort (Cancel) the life. People say it is not a life but it is growing and filled with whatever gives us life. What makes a seed turn into a giant tree? That same force is growing inside of a pregnant woman.
 
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
People say it is not a life but it is growing and filled with whatever gives us life. What makes a seed turn into a giant tree? That same force is growing inside of a pregnant woman.
One is HUMAN LIFE the other is a tree.
 
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:13 PM
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Maybe it's my age showing, but I'm surprised he was able to find so many people who had never heard of Hitler. WTF?

Totally off topic, but I'd be interested to hear Ray's take (and logic) on capital punishment.
The main justification I hear is the fact they've done wrong to someone, but in Ray's world, there's room to repent.
And that's an entirely different thread.
 
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Totally off topic, but I'd be interested to hear Ray's take (and logic) on capital punishment.
Or on war, especially preemptive war.

@kanemochi
There are other alternatives.
One is a belief spirit survives.
It is well said 'there are worse things than death'

Job, who was deemed righteous by god, said
it would have been better for him to have been an untimely birth.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:32 PM
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[YT]HAZeQTqRMcA[/YT]

In its own way this song is as powerful
as the reverend's video.
Sorry. Not really any lyrics.
You'll have to listen.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enterscope.com View Post
People get abortions because they fear the outcome.
I disagree. This is true in some cases, but definitely not all. As has already been said, sometimes going through with the pregnancy can be life threatening to the baby and the mother.


I watched the video in my sexual education class a few years ago.
(Not sure how they were allowed to show 9th graders this, but whatever)

I am pro-choice. I would not get an abortion, but I don't believe others should have their choices infringed upon because of my choices.
I also don't believe abortion should be used as a form of "birth control."
Trust me, that IS becoming an issue. I saw it many times when I was in high school, and in my opinion it's just pathetic.
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