All Things Jesus

[Muddy]

Here is a tidy place for the discussion of questions and/or beliefs about the person in the Bible called Jesus Christ. If you like to talk about Jesus, here's the place to do it. If you have questions or opinions about Jesus, here's the place to voice them. Please bear in mind, this thread is NOT about religion. It's about Jesus.

To get this party started, I'll ask:

Did Jesus support any political agenda or did he in fact oppose the marriage of politics and religion?*


*Scriptural support required.

[stephengfm]

Paraphrasing from memory - Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is Gods.

_________________________________________________
http://bible.cc/mark/12-17.htm

[Muddy]

Originally Posted by stephengfm

Paraphrasing from memory - Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is Gods.

_________________________________________________
http://bible.cc/mark/12-17.htm

What was the context in which Jesus said those words? What was he specifically talking about?

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Muddy

Here is a tidy place for the discussion of questions and/or beliefs about the person in the Bible called Jesus Christ. If you like to talk about Jesus, here's the place to do it. If you have questions or opinions about Jesus, here's the place to voice them. Please bear in mind, this thread is NOT about religion. It's about Jesus.

To get this party started, I'll ask:

Did Jesus support any political agenda or did he in fact oppose the marriage of politics and religion?*


*Scriptural support required.

Although I am not willing to "debate" religion, I don't mind responding with what I believe on certain topics.

My guts told me that Jesus was not involved with politics, but I didn't have specific scriptures to back up my thoughts so I spent some time researching the question.

The following article was closest to my thoughts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/09/op...pagewanted=all

THERE is no such thing as a "Christian politics." If it is a politics, it cannot be Christian. Jesus told Pilate: "My reign is not of this present order. If my reign were of this present order, my supporters would have fought against my being turned over to the Jews. But my reign is not here" (John 18:36). Jesus brought no political message or program.

This is a truth that needs emphasis at a time when some Democrats, fearing that the Republicans have advanced over them by the use of religion, want to respond with a claim that Jesus is really on their side. He is not. He avoided those who would trap him into taking sides for or against the Roman occupation of Judea. He paid his taxes to the occupying power but said only, "Let Caesar have what belongs to him, and God have what belongs to him" (Matthew 22:21). He was the original proponent of a separation of church and state.

[rabble]

Jesus was an Occupier.
He taught another way.
It got him killed.

[robjones]

Naah, dont get me wrong, Jesus would never make it with most Christians I grew up with. He drank wine, he failed to properly look down on prostitutes... and let's face it, he had long hair, sandals, and was not a snappy dresser. And based on that manic episode with money lenders... he'd suck at being chairman of the bond program for the new sanctuary.

I recall when our dear congregation decided to improve on the Bible and pass a bylaw that deacons shouldnt have ANY association with alcohol. You have no idea how unpopular it was to point out to the preacher in the middle of that meeting that they'd just disqualified the guy the religion was supposedly modeled on from being a deacon in our church. LOL. Pretty sure painting a target on my back at that point woulda been redundant. Havent stepped foot in a Baptist church for years, but oddly that one wasnt even the last straw.

But I'd never call him an Occupier. Unless of course there's a verse where he asked the Romans to pay for his education or crapped on one of Herrod's chariots. of course he did have a record of bringing the dead from the grave... he'd probably be a good guy to have at a DNC voter registration.

[stephengfm]

History repeats itself with the parable of the Pharisees and the Publicans: http://deeptruths.com/treasures/pharisee_publican.html

As far as ALL politicians go, Revelations speaks about liars fairly harshly.
21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

[txshellie]

Originally Posted by robjones

Naah, dont get me wrong, Jesus would never make it with most Christians I grew up with. He drank wine, he failed to properly look down on prostitutes... and let's face it, he had long hair, sandals, and was not a snappy dresser. And based on that manic episode with money lenders... he'd suck at being chairman of the bond program for the new sanctuary.

Didn't they teach you, Rob, that it really wasn't "wine" per say. They drank something "like" wine that had antibacterial properties but wasn't really an alcoholic beverage.

<deep sigh>

The first miracle Jesus is reported to have performed is turning water into wine. And apparently a lovely vintage at that:

From John Chapter 2: On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.” 4 “Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons. Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

So, Muddy, what are some other topics that you'd like to throw out about Jesus?

How about what his teachings did for women? He actually treated them like people instead of possessions which was rather revolutionary for his day.

I'm sad to see people try to send women back a few 1000 years or put them in emotional burkas based on their perception of a few verses in Paul's epistles that I think are taken out of historical context. If there is one thing I have an issue with it's bad hermeneutics.

Here's an assessment of this topic that makes sense to me without having to take the time to list all of this myself.

http://www.gci.org/church/ministry/women6b

So now, we're addressing, women and wine... what's next?

Song?

[robjones]

Originally Posted by stephengfm

History repeats itself with the parable of the Pharisees and the Publicans: http://deeptruths.com/treasures/pharisee_publican.html

As far as ALL politicians go, Revelations speaks about liars fairly harshly.
21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

From the link above:

But in the sight of God, self-righteous religious pride like this Pharisee manifested is the GREATEST and WORST of ALL SINS!--That hypocritical "holier-than-thou" attitude, that causes people who are selfrighteous to DESPISE and look DOWN on others who they don't consider as holy or pure or faithful or good as they think THEY are! When people get this way, others usually find them to be the hardest, most narrowminded and intolerant folks they ever met! Because instead of loving, forgiving and understanding others, they're always criticising, judging and condemning folks who don't do all the "good" things that THEY do!

Yeah... history does repeat itself sometimes, doesn't it.

[Muddy]

Originally Posted by txshellie

Didn't they teach you, Rob, that it really wasn't "wine" per say. They drank something "like" wine that had antibacterial properties but wasn't really an alcoholic beverage.

<deep sigh>

Thank goodness...for a second I thought you believed this!

Originally Posted by txshellie

So, Muddy, what are some other topics that you'd like to throw out about Jesus?

How about what his teachings did for women? He actually treated them like people instead of possessions which was rather revolutionary for his day.

I'm sad to see people try to send women back a few 1000 years or put them in emotional burkas based on their perception of a few verses in Paul's epistles that I think are taken out of historical context. If there is one thing I have an issue with it's bad hermeneutics.

Here's an assessment of this topic that makes sense to me without having to take the time to list all of this myself.

http://www.gci.org/church/ministry/women6b

So now, we're addressing, women and wine... what's next?

Song?

Well, I started the thread primarily as an appropriate place for Stephen et al to hold forth on the subject. Also, in another thread the question was raised as to whether Jesus got involved in secular politics so I thought a place to explore the facts of the matter would be nice. I really hadn't thought about other topics to discuss. I'll agree with you about his philosophy towards women though. Children too. He seemed to have a pretty good attitude about most things.

[stephengfm]

Originally Posted by robjones

From the link above:


Yeah... history does repeat itself sometimes, doesn't it.

At least you saw my point, robjones, Good job!

[robjones]

Meanwhile we hear the whistling sound of mine passing overhead.

[Muddy]

Originally Posted by stephengfm

At least you saw my point, robjones, Good job!

That was a condescending remark that doesn't even make sense since all Rob did was quote from your link.

However, if your point was really and truly that which he quoted, then I'm glad you realize how ineffective and actually off-putting a pontificating ass is (something one could never accuse Jesus of being). So...good job!

[stephengfm]

In response to robjones' post at the time of 05-08-2012, 12:29 AM, I responded with a link to the parable discussion.

[robjones]

Originally Posted by stephengfm

In response to robjones' post at the time of 05-08-2012, 12:29 AM, I responded with a link to the parable discussion.

Looks like we're doing the same chore, but in my case at least the soil benefits.

[stephengfm]

Jesus loves you, robjones.

[robjones]

He told me he thinks you're a putz.

[stephengfm]

Originally Posted by robjones

He told me he thinks you're a putz.

http://www.v7n.com/forums/controvers...ml#post1874924

[stephengfm]

In an effort to get this topic back on point, based on his teachings:

How did Jesus feel about the poor people in the world?

[txshellie]

Originally Posted by Muddy

Well, I started the thread primarily as an appropriate place for Stephen et al to hold forth on the subject.

Oh, OK. I'll watch and let you all have at it.

<big smile>