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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 10:29 PM
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Rather than having a conversion pro-guns and anti-guns, it will be more productive to find ways to detect this kind of murderers before they act.

There are a few red flags that can be spotted easily by the government agencies:

Buying Tactical equipment
Buying Bullet proof vest
Buying High quantity of ammunitions in short period of time

Where the guy get the instructions to build the booby traps in his apartement, etc

I don't see gun enthusiasts buying bullet proof vest to shoot target paper or even to go hunting.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 10:37 PM
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Tactical gear is more popular than you'd imagine. There's a fair amount of the populace that believes there is for one reason or another a high probability of a major social breakdown. They call 'em "preppers"... and being prepared to defend ones self isnt illegal. That doesnt mean they are sitting around plotting to overthrow the government... It means they want to be ready if it falls.

As for buying a high quantity of ammo... same group, plus the majority of the crew that gets nervous every time the democrats start banging the jungle drums for gun control. It was already skyrocketing, but it'll go up now. The fact that Homeland security has recently purchased enough .40 call ammo alone to shoot everyone in the country a time or two doesnt dispel any rumors. Based on the firepower domestic agencies have been purchasing you'd be excused for assuming we're on the edge of Armegeddon.

Prepping for a societal collapse is NOT limited to guys that got married in camo. I know a former member of the NYSE, billion dollar type financier and a published author who could keep things running quite nicely on an island he owns off the east coast. [i heard the slow economy induced him to sell his other island... Must be tough to only have one.]
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Last edited by robjones; 07-21-2012 at 11:15 PM.
 
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:10 PM
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I've said all I'm going to say about guns. I just finished reading the Sunday paper and came across this opinion piece.

"GUNS don't kill people. People kill people. That's what the gun lobbyists say - and they're still saying it after the Batman massacre in the US.

Well, chew this over while you read that nonsense.

According to some 2009 figures from the Law Centre to Prevent Gun Violence, there were more than 85 guns deaths a day in the US. That's more than three deaths an hour.

In that year guns took the lives of 31,347 Americans in homicides, suicides and accidents. Nearly 67,000 people were treated in hospital emergency departments for non-fatal gunshot wounds.

One hideous comparison was that about 4400 American soldiers died in the first seven years of the Iraq War, but almost as many civilians were killed by guns in the US every seven weeks.

Americans with guns in one hand and their constitution in the other were more dangerous to their own kind than enemies armed with rockets, grenades and roadside bombs. And why not when, for example, in Colorado even kids can have handguns at home if their parents allow it, and 42 of the 50 states have no regulations governing assault rifles?

I grew up with guns, I owned guns and I've fired everything from machine guns to pistols (and enjoyed it) but I don't need them, and I don't feel any less manly for it. When I visit the US and come across otherwise sensible people with pistols in their pockets and handbags, I know where I'd rather live."
 
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Old 07-21-2012, 11:16 PM
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There wont ever be gun control in the USA. The lobby is too strong. And it's embedded in the 2nd amendment.
 
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:18 PM
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Anyone notice how quiet the NRA is whenever there is a shooting tragedy? They come out like hail whenever people talk about gun control but whenever there is a tragedy you never see politicians who support or toe the line with the NRA or the NRA coming in strong defense of gun rights.
 
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:22 PM
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NRA quiet? What makes you think so?

Wayne La Pierre (NRA President) has been anything but quiet. Members arent quiet... Unless you think ive been shy to talk about it.

If youre watching news channels that dont report it, that says more about the media outlets than the NRA.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:56 AM
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http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_Ja...alse_flag.html

Here is another opinion about the shooter on Saturday. In my opinon I own a gun in my home. I do not have a cwp but I may consider it. It is true about people kill people not guns. Guns is just a method, you have knives, bomb, cars, baseball bats etc. Why is it that guns are always the ones that get selected for discussion? Because of the mass killings that take place and their weapon of choice is guns? Both me and my husband had to file a background check before we were even allowed to buy the guns. There is enough blame to go around. And like drugs you will always have the "black market"

http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_Ja..._shooting.html

And then we have this opinion, which I kind of wander myself. Why didn't anyone attempt to stop them. You hear about it on planes tackling a suspected terrorist or someone off the deep end. And he talks about gun carrying ccw people in here also.

Last edited by Weebitty; 07-22-2012 at 08:14 AM.
 
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket View Post
What people keep failing to realize (in my humble opinion) is that nothing stops an idiot intent on causing devastation. The only thing regulations stop is the law abiding citizens.

Quote:
The only thing regulations stop is the law abiding citizens.

from becoming criminals ... many of them for many reasons.

why are there any written laws at all according to your logic ???


tangentially, regulating that guns must be leaver action alone would have saved many lives in the above instance.

gun owners nor anyone else should feel they have a "right" to travel 130 MPH in an automobile through a school zone - however it is the argument the NRA has succeeded in fooling the American public.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:06 PM
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post
tangentially, regulating that guns must be leaver action alone would have saved many lives in the above instance.
You can't possibly begin to know that. Had he not chosen guns he could have just as easily decided to blow up the entire theater.

You are free to state your opinion in this community but make sure it is clear that is what you are sharing. Don't put things up as FACT without credible supporting information to back up your claim.
 
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post
why are there any written laws at all according to your logic ???
Because laws and such are there to facilitate an easy understanding of boundaries of what is legal and illegal. So that the common person does not have the excuse of not knowing that it is wrong in the eyes of the law to do something.

The point is, and as we have seen proven by Human's history, is that laws do not stop people who are extremists (in anything, whether or not it's an extreme animal abuser, or someone who shoot's up a public place) , it has not helped in the past and it will not help in the future, as they are so intent on doing what they do that a simple law will not stop them, maybe because they really do believe that what they are doing is right and justified and thus they neither fear nor care about any punishment levied to them, because they believe that they are right and justified.

A simple mans opinion.

Last edited by Dan Williamson; 07-22-2012 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Missed a word out.
 
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post
from becoming criminals ... many of them for many reasons.

why are there any written laws at all according to your logic ???


tangentially, regulating that guns must be leaver action alone would have saved many lives in the above instance.

gun owners nor anyone else should feel they have a "right" to travel 130 MPH in an automobile through a school zone - however it is the argument the NRA has succeeded in fooling the American public.
Let me give you an example of a stupid control law that just went into effect in Kentucky in a false effort to control the meth trade. I can only buy 72 sudafed tablets at a time with additional monthly and yearly caps. I have to show a photo ID.

I an long time allergy sufferer can not buy the damned OTC medicine I need to breath. I could probably buy the meth easier than I can buy a simple OTC drug. Doctors are scared to write prescriptions that circuvent the law for fear of getting their names on a list.

This stupid law is not going to stop meth production or distribution; it is only going to make law abiding citizens suffer. "Control laws" only affect the honest people no matter what you are controlling.

If you want control laws take your bleeding heart to someplace that has them.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post
gun owners nor anyone else should feel they have a "right" to travel 130 MPH in an automobile through a school zone - however it is the argument the NRA has succeeded in fooling the American public.
You don't know any gun owners, do you? Yet, you sure seem to "know" a lot about them. (I can only presume is that your "knowledge" of gun owners' attitudes and beliefs is the product of your fevered imagination. You certainly couldn't get your views from talking to any gun owner that I know.)

Please cite where anyone, NRA or otherwise, has claimed that they have a right to travel at 130 MPH through a school zone.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 03:03 PM
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From 1968 to 1993....I was involved in many murder investigations.....don't know how many....
A lot of them..(I didn't keep track) were committed with things other than guns.....

About 5 years ago I stopped carrying a firearm.....I recently reapplied for a new permit....

Re: blowing things up.....there are a lot of instructions on the net.....
The good thing is that some of them will blowup the bomb maker...
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post
why are there any written laws at all according to your logic ???
Laws are there to protect us from one another, theoretically. That's why it's not illegal to drink beer, but it is illegal to drink beer and then drive, putting others at risk. It's not illegal to own a gun, but it is illegal to threaten or shoot at someone else. It's not illegal to own a knife, but it is illegal to stab someone with it. It really shouldn't be illegal to smoke pot, in my opinion, but I don't think I've ever been guilty of claiming that the laws on the books make perfect sense.


Quote:
tangentially, regulating that guns must be leaver action alone would have saved many lives in the above instance.
Nope. There are all sorts of flaws to that argument, but chief in my mind is the demonstrations I've seen where people with lever-action guns got off a great many shots quite accurately. Bolt action, maybe, due to the inconvenience of where the bolt is in relation to the trigger--but then again, the bolt action is one of the configurations that is least prone to jamming. Bolt action, then, is still quite deadly.

Do you realize that the Army actually went away from fully automatic for its primary troops? The most talked-about change from the M-16A1 to the M-16A2 was replacement of AUTO with BURST on the selector switch. Yes, it was in part in the hopes of reducing the logistical requirements of transporting the number of bullets that people shot, but the primary reason we were given--one I believe--is that war isn't about the number of bullets you can put downrange, it's about the number of bullets you can put into the enemy soldiers. Automatic fire is so much less accurate than semi-automatic, thanks to the recoil of the first round messing with the subsequent fire, that it was moved away from.

Even with full-on machine guns, both the M-60 and the Ma Deuce, as well as the SAW that came out while I was serving, we were taught to fire short bursts rather than full auto. The NCOs talked about it being to prevent melting the barrel, and while that's not completely untrue, it was primarily because of the need to put the rounds where you want them to go.

Bottom line: it's NOT the configuration of the rifle that makes a lot of difference in its overall deadliness. Banning one type over another, then, is really just an exercise in--um, uselessness (changing my word so I don't offend poor Mr. Jones and cause another attack).
 
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 03:53 PM
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There are a few red flags that can be spotted easily by the government agencies:
Yes, but they have to be reported before they can be spotted. Colorado has no requirement to report much of anything. Same goes for many "red" states, too.

Even if it were reported and spotted and then tracked, keep in mind that laws and law enforcement really are only there to deal with problems after they've begun. There's still no test, nor will there ever be, that will determine what a person is likely to do in the future.

In this case, the police responded just about as fast as can be expected. In the couple of times I've had to call law enforcement to my own campus, it's been the same thing.

My thing is--do I trust myself to respond in a situation where somebody is causing harm at my campus if I'm packing? Sure do; I've got years of training in both tactics and firearm use. Do I trust my co-workers? Not in the freakin' slightest. None of them has any training, and especially with handguns they're just as likely to shoot me as they are to shoot the bad guy.
 
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 04:05 PM
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Yes, but they have to be reported before they can be spotted. Colorado has no requirement to report much of anything. Same goes for many "red" states, too.

Even if it were reported and spotted and then tracked, keep in mind that laws and law enforcement really are only there to deal with problems after they've begun. There's still no test, nor will there ever be, that will determine what a person is likely to do in the future.

In this case, the police responded just about as fast as can be expected. In the couple of times I've had to call law enforcement to my own campus, it's been the same thing.

My thing is--do I trust myself to respond in a situation where somebody is causing harm at my campus if I'm packing? Sure do; I've got years of training in both tactics and firearm use. Do I trust my co-workers? Not in the freakin' slightest. None of them has any training, and especially with handguns they're just as likely to shoot me as they are to shoot the bad guy.
While I certainly am not familiar with other states, Texas does require proficiency training to carry. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/index.htm
 
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:29 PM
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While I certainly am not familiar with other states, Texas does require proficiency training to carry. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL/index.htm
Yeah, I'm sure that's ten tough hours of training. Most states that allow concealed carry, I believe, require training. I looked up Texas, which is interesting in that you don't allow open carry at all, licensed or no, but it's okay to walk around hiding it. If you're licensed, of course.

Alaska was funny--while I was there, Frank Murkowski made a lot of people mad(der) by removing all restrictions on concealed carry. Yay, I guess. But Texas still has their reciprocity agreement with Alaska. Arizona also removed requirements for concealed carry (never had any for open carry) as of 2010. I remember arriving in Phoenix as a young guy fresh out of the Infantry; I called the local police and said I had handguns and they said, "So?" Mississippi is--just freakin' weird with its law; open carry is legal if you have a concealed carry permit, but you can't carry in a whole bunch of places (including at a parade--which, considering the nature of Mardi Gras parades, is probably wise). Unless, of course, you're in your vehicle, where no permit is required at all whether the handgun is open or concealed. Meanwhile Virginia, where I reside now, is a nasty patchwork of laws and regulations; I wouldn't dream of carrying here because of all the governmental boundaries I cross every day.

Can't speak to most places that I haven't lived, mostly because I don't care enough to investigate further.

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Old 07-22-2012, 04:45 PM
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Yeah, I'm sure that's ten tough hours of training. Most states that allow concealed carry, I believe, require training. I looked up Texas, which is interesting in that you don't allow open carry at all, licensed or no, but it's okay to walk around hiding it. If you're licensed, of course.
Many natives i know grew up learning firearms safety and proficiency from early childhood. Having gone through military training with a platoon mostly from the east coast, the handful from the south and southwest were just getting review, while the boys from the city were learning to shoot.

Not all training happens in a formal government sponsored environment. Heck, I trained boys as young as first grade when i was teaching at a youth camp.
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:47 PM
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Haley was learning about gun safety by the time she was in second grade, if not earlier.
 
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