Webmaster Forum

Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Share |
  #1  
Old 08-19-2012, 01:29 PM
Cricket's Avatar
Cricket Cricket is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: Texas
Posts: 42,181
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Thumbs down When is society to blame along with the lawbreaker?

Quote:
ďWe must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.Ē Ronald Reagan
While I certainly agree with the main premise of this quote, arenít there times when society needs to take some responsibility also?
 
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

Advertisement

  #2  
Old 08-19-2012, 02:01 PM
Franc Tireur Franc Tireur is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 08-15-06
Posts: 10,109
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket View Post
While I certainly agree with the main premise of this quote, aren’t there times when society needs to take some responsibility also?
President Ronald Reagan was right.

IMO, How can you be responsible when you don't have control of the keys of the society?
 
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-19-2012, 02:53 PM
Bob Barr's Avatar
Bob Barr Bob Barr is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: 05-17-08
Location: San Juan Bautista, California
Posts: 3,186
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Crimes are committed by individuals who make a conscious decision to break some law (for whatever reason or excuse they may have for doing so).

Blaming society is just their way, and perhaps their parents' way, to avoid taking any responsibility for the decision that they've made.

Last edited by Bob Barr; 08-19-2012 at 02:56 PM.
 
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-19-2012, 05:27 PM
ScriptMan's Avatar
ScriptMan ScriptMan is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: 02-10-07
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 13,725
iTrader: 4 / 100%
My immediate response is no. Ronnie had it 100% correct. I do have an open mind so I eagerly await some examples where society is to blame.

The only one that comes to my mind are the inane drug laws that we waste billions trying to enforce. It would be far cheaper to just give the addicts the drugs and allow them to expire themselves.
 
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:35 AM
Breeze Wood's Avatar
Breeze Wood Breeze Wood is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 04-06-11
Location: USA
Posts: 958
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
“We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.” Ronald Reagan

Quote:
... that each individual is accountable for his actions. Ronald Reagan
not sure what the above is referring to per the Quote - to themselves or to society.


Quote:
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker.
there never was such an idea, every time a law is broken.


I wonder if this were a thought by Ronald Reagan before or after Iran Contra and Oliver North - as one example of the individual making the statement and its relevance.
 
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-20-2012, 08:36 AM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,770
iTrader: 5 / 100%
To the extent that you could blame any parent for the actions of their child, I think society bears a responsibility in cases where the child was taken from the parents at an early age and raised by the state or guardians appointed by the state. Society would also bear responsibility where a person is (by law) forced to break a law. Those situations are rare, but with the number of laws on the books, I'm sure there are a few examples.
Outside of that narrow path, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a logical reason to blame society for the actions of any member within it.
 
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-25-2012, 03:35 PM
bxy bxy is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-04-11
Posts: 64
iTrader: 0 / 0%
The breaking of laws is always and absolutely societies fault, because if there wasn't any society there would not be any laws to break.

Now on to influence, society. If you grow up in an impoverished neighborhood how wrong are those around you going to say you are for stealing food when you are hungry? Is it not societies fault that children go hungry, is it not societies fault that whole communities are impoverished?

Ok, you don't like that one, how about the man who's life I took. That is no ones but my fault right, I did kill him. I agree it is my fault, and taking another's life is always wrong. Now if I tell you I was in the military, oh that doesn't count, it was my job. Did society just say it was ok for me to kill? Now if I tell you that man had a machine gun and was shooting innocent civilians when I killed him, and I even took a couple of bullets before I managed to kill him. Suddenly killing a man became a small heroic deed, praised by society. Society says that is good, so is society not influencing my choice to take that man's life?

There is always a degree to which a crime is societies fault, and a degree to where it is an individuals fault, but everything in between is only shades of grey.
 
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-01-2012, 08:36 AM
JakeMoore's Avatar
JakeMoore JakeMoore is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 09-06-10
Location: USA
Posts: 1,529
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket View Post
While I certainly agree with the main premise of this quote, arenít there times when society needs to take some responsibility also?
I don't think so. Culture can encourage you to break the law or to abide by it, but the decision is ultimately yours. I do think it undeniable that are present culture encourages people to break the law.
 
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-03-2012, 12:58 AM
taskmaster123 taskmaster123 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: 09-02-12
Posts: 5
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Lawbreakers are responsible for their deeds

I fully agree that law breakers are accountable for their misdeeds. However I also feel that the government should not waste billions of dollars on enforcing drug laws.
 
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-03-2012, 01:46 AM
GMF's Avatar
GMF GMF is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 11-03-11
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,213
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by taskmaster123 View Post
However I also feel that the government should not waste billions of dollars on enforcing drug laws.
So, you would be fine if dealers could wander about everywhere, selling meth and cocaine
 
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:12 PM
bxy bxy is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-04-11
Posts: 64
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeMoore View Post
I don't think so. Culture can encourage you to break the law or to abide by it, but the decision is ultimately yours. I do think it undeniable that are present culture encourages people to break the law.
Ok, let me go further.
I'll theme this I Shot the Sheriff, as Bob Marley certainly had a clue. When Germany made being a Jew a crime, or Russia made it unlawful to be Muslim, China outlawed Mongols, Turkey made being American illegal, and America made being Indian illegal, just to name but a few. All resulted in mass genocides, men women and children slaughtered for no more crime then to have been born who they were.

So how did any of these people "decide" to be a criminal, and how was society not at fault?
 
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-04-2012, 01:46 PM
JakeMoore's Avatar
JakeMoore JakeMoore is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 09-06-10
Location: USA
Posts: 1,529
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by bxy View Post
I'll theme this I Shot the Sheriff, as Bob Marley certainly had a clue. When Germany made being a Jew a crime, or Russia made it unlawful to be Muslim, China outlawed Mongols, Turkey made being American illegal, and America made being Indian illegal, just to name but a few. All resulted in mass genocides, men women and children slaughtered for no more crime then to have been born who they were.

So how did any of these people "decide" to be a criminal, and how was society not at fault?
I'm sure you know this is not the point of Cricket's question.
 
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-04-2012, 02:10 PM
Cricket's Avatar
Cricket Cricket is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: Texas
Posts: 42,181
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeMoore View Post
I'm sure you know this is not the point of Cricket's question.
Yeah, I actually meant from a criminal standpoint.

As an example, when I read the childhood of serial killers, I often see that many have horrible childhoods that could send just about anyone off the deep end. Stories of children falling through the cracks of the system. Yes of course not every child who grows up in horrible condition grows up to be violent, but I wonder if we have some responsibility as a society.

Another example (from a totally different perspective) might be the Jaycee Dugard story where parole officers missed as many as 60 chances to rescue her. No matter how you look at it, our system failed Jaycee Dugard and her children. Yes, her kidnappers were 100% responsible for this crime but where is the accountability for those who failed her?
 
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:43 PM
JakeMoore's Avatar
JakeMoore JakeMoore is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 09-06-10
Location: USA
Posts: 1,529
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket View Post
Another example (from a totally different perspective) might be the Jaycee Dugard story where parole officers missed as many as 60 chances to rescue her. No matter how you look at it, our system failed Jaycee Dugard and her children. Yes, her kidnappers were 100% responsible for this crime but where is the accountability for those who failed her?
I understand your perspective on this but on the other side of the coin we don't want to turn into a nanny state. I will be the first to admit I don't know the facts in the Dugard case but there is an old adage that says hard cases make bad law. You can't make law based on the worst possible scenario because of the vast amount of liberty we give up when we do so. That's how we got the TSA groping grandmas and kiddos.

What we as a society can do is open our arms and embrace the least, the forgotten, the wronged (and the wrong). We have all bought into the lie that that's what we pay taxes for. But it is our arms, our feet, our will, our strength and our love that will change things....nothing else.
 
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-04-2012, 06:17 PM
DocSheldon's Avatar
DocSheldon DocSheldon is offline
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 01-01-10
Location: Baja California
Posts: 3,740
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Sorry, as thought-provoking as some of the comments are, and as lofty as the sentiments expressed may be, as far as I'm concerned, someone that knowingly breaks the law should be held 100% responsible for doing so. Hang him, jail him, psychoanalyze him or have the bailiff whack his peepee...

But sending him a message before the fact that telegraphs the attitude that if he had a rough childhood, a lousy year or a bad day, society will be willing to shoulder some portion of the blame for him.... we've already seen how well that works - we've been doing it for years.
 
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-05-2012, 06:29 AM
bxy bxy is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-04-11
Posts: 64
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeMoore View Post
I'm sure you know this is not the point of Cricket's question.
No Jake, it is where you took it with your "Culture can encourage you to break the law or to abide by it, but the decision is ultimately yours." And yes with Cricket's original post it would indeed be in answer to her quote of the Acting President.

Law today is out of control, and a perfect example, Law is rapidly turning a death ear to the people, and turning toward a rullership. The individual has a responsibility to hold law accountable, and in that we are greatly failing.

Now yes I could go into Donner, a perfect example of Cricket's adjustment post, and a subject for which I am well versed, as that one of my thesis subjects. But that is truly not the direction this thread went, a direction you steered it Jake, the far right. But law by far is not always right, as you probably would agree, however you are too quick to blame the individual fro breaking law. I guess I'll explain that better to you one day when we are sitting side by side in some fema camp awaiting our turn to the gas chamber. Sad.
 
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-16-2012, 10:21 PM
Cricket's Avatar
Cricket Cricket is offline
No Longer Active
 
Join Date: 10-13-03
Location: Texas
Posts: 42,181
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Here is an example of a story that made me think of this topic...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1888692.html
 
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-16-2012, 11:11 PM
Jim Gillum's Avatar
Jim Gillum Jim Gillum is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: 11-17-09
Location: Deland, Florida
Posts: 7,263
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Is a difficult childhood a reason for crime...or an excuse....?

When I hear about the sadness that brought about the commission of a crime...

It is over shadowed by the sadness brought to the victims (that lived) and their families...
 
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-17-2012, 06:06 AM
ScriptMan's Avatar
ScriptMan ScriptMan is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: 02-10-07
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 13,725
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket View Post
Here is an example of a story that made me think of this topic...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1888692.html
That truly is a sad start on life. It appears that everyone failed this boy. It sounds harsh; at this point in time rehabilitation is not possible. The die is cast. At this time all we can do is protect others from this monster the system help create. As that old song goes, you have to know when to fold 'em.

Rehabilitation for violent crimes or 'set in a pattern' criminals has been proved as a non working failure. It can and sometimes does work if begun early enough.
 
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-17-2012, 07:10 AM
bxy bxy is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: 03-04-11
Posts: 64
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Gillum View Post
Is a difficult childhood a reason for crime...or an excuse....?

When I hear about the sadness that brought about the commission of a crime...

It is over shadowed by the sadness brought to the victims (that lived) and their families...
Yes it is "THE" reason and the excuse. I agree with ScriptMan these people have to be removed from society, but it is society that fails when children are raised in poverty. And YES, poverty equals crime. With today's technology, our level of knowledge, and growth in society there is no reason that any child should be raised in poverty, and no reason any human should ever suffer poverty. All that it takes is to eliminate greed. Outlaw greed and war and poverty will quickly be on their way out of our lives. Crime drops when people have a productive fulfilling lives. Ad as for drugs, in the words of Jill Stein, It is time that drug addiction gets treated like the health problem it is, not as a crime. And in my words, you can't punish a person out of drugs, but you can love a person out of drugs, and I have been complimented by Judges for exactly that.
 
Reply With Quote
Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is the media is to blame for a lot of social controversy? ScriptMan Controversial Social Issues 17 07-24-2012 08:54 PM
Can we blame people for not reading or not searching first? MrSS Forum Lobby 18 06-27-2012 09:38 AM
Don't Blame the Customer...Blame Yourself. David Jackson Marketing Forum 16 08-01-2010 08:16 PM
Donít Blame Google For Your Own Linking Failures coolguy27 SEO Forum 1 11-10-2008 11:44 PM
Who Do You Blame For The Current Oil State? TechWizard Controversial Social Issues 59 06-04-2008 07:38 PM


V7N Network
Get exposure! V7N I Love Photography V7N SEO Blog V7N Directory


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:36 AM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Copyright © 2003 - 2018 VIX-WomensForum LLC