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Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


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  #201 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:29 AM
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So how do you explain the Cannabis prohibition laws? Liberal?
that's what I was wondering, because that seems conservative to me.
 
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  #202 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:36 AM
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Hello?... it's been 7 minutes folks. where's my response?
 
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  #203 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferre
So how do you explain the Cannabis prohibition laws? Liberal?
I was against seatbelt laws til I read research that showed seatbelts not only protected the person driving, but helped the driver maintain better control of the vehicle in a crisis situation, meaning others were protected as well as the driver.

Helmet laws protect nothing but the decision makers life. It's none of the governments business if a man wants to chance busting his skull open.

Cannabis in my experience (and yes I do have experience) is not victimless. Research I've done since knowing you (see, you have made a difference) has forced me to alter my opinion on it to some degree, but I can't deny what I've seen with my own eyes. If it came to a vote I would vote to keep it illegal, but wouldn't be crushed if it went the other way.
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  #204 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:39 AM
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Helmet laws protect nothing but the decision makers life. It's none of the governments business if a man wants to chance busting his skull open.
I think that also effects the people around him. It's disgusting and I think saftey is important. but maybe I guess I do have at least on Liberal stance.

pisses me off when I see kids at the skatepark without helmets.



although I understand your points and it makes sense. I'm torn now.
 
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  #205 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Dustin07
I think that also effects the people around him. It's disgusting and I think saftey is important. but maybe I guess I do have at least on Liberal stance.

pisses me off when I see kids at the skatepark without helmets.
Personal safety is a personal decision. I don't even ride, so it's a non-issue with me except that it sets precident that could effect things I do care about.

The logic of the helmet law could decide that motorcycles themselves are too dangerous, skateboards are too dangerous, so they're outlawed. Skydiving..too dangerous, outlawed. How loud can your headphones be before it damages your hearing? Outlawed. If nobody but the willing participants are endangered there should be no law. Period.
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Last edited by South; 06-15-2006 at 11:47 AM.
 
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  #206 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southnow
Helmet laws protect nothing but the decision makers life. It's none of the governments business if a man wants to chance busting his skull open.
I disagree and wrote my thoughts in an article here. http://www.motorcycle-journal.com/20...t-laws/#more-3

Quote:
...there is the issue of public safety and collateral damage that needs to be addressed.

Have you ever driven down the road in your cage (motorcyclists lingo for car / truck/ mini-van etc.) And had a stone fly up from the road and hit your windshield due to a vehicle in front of you or one that has passed by in the opposite lane? I’m sure most of you have. I say the danger of this happening while riding a motorcycle, causing you to lose control has serious implications with regard to PUBLIC safety. Imagine getting struck in the forehead by a small stone at upwards of 100 miles per hour or more as you have to account for the speed of the rock as well as the speed of the bike. It is very probable that this would cause you to lose control and the possibilities of causing a multiple vehicle accident are greatly increased. That being said, the “choice” the rider makes by not wearing a helmet directly affects the safety of others.

You need to also look at the consequences of a single vehicle motorcycle accident. Orphaned children, widowed wives or husbands, undue stress and commitment (financial or otherwise) by family members to care for a seriously injured rider, unnecessary insurance premium increases are all factors that can be easily influenced by the choice to ride without a helmet. Not to mention the trauma inflicted on emergency services personnel and others involved in an accident, no matter whos at fault.
 
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  #207 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:45 AM
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No, I think you are being liberal on this topic. I'm going to keep thinking about it. Hell I'm posting a new thread.
 
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  #208 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapper
...there is the issue of public safety and collateral damage that needs to be addressed.

Have you ever driven down the road in your cage (motorcyclists lingo for car / truck/ mini-van etc.) And had a stone fly up from the road and hit your windshield due to a vehicle in front of you or one that has passed by in the opposite lane? I’m sure most of you have. I say the danger of this happening while riding a motorcycle, causing you to lose control has serious implications with regard to PUBLIC safety. Imagine getting struck in the forehead by a small stone at upwards of 100 miles per hour or more as you have to account for the speed of the rock as well as the speed of the bike. It is very probable that this would cause you to lose control and the possibilities of causing a multiple vehicle accident are greatly increased. That being said, the “choice” the rider makes by not wearing a helmet directly affects the safety of others.

You need to also look at the consequences of a single vehicle motorcycle accident. Orphaned children, widowed wives or husbands, undue stress and commitment (financial or otherwise) by family members to care for a seriously injured rider, unnecessary insurance premium increases are all factors that can be easily influenced by the choice to ride without a helmet. Not to mention the trauma inflicted on emergency services personnel and others involved in an accident, no matter whos at fault.
Are there cited incidents of this on a substancial scale? If so I'd be open to rethinking my position on it.
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  #209 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 11:54 AM
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cool, but do it here please
 
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  #210 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southnow
Are there cited incidents of this on a substancial scale? If so I'd be open to rethinking my position on it.
Sorry no sources, just common sense and logic. (and the experience of debris hitting my shield.)
 
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  #211 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:11 PM
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I have been riding bikes all my life and am of the age that I drove bikes before there were helmet laws and I used to drive without a helmet sometimes when it was very hot for short rides into the city (max 50 km/hour speed limits) and at first when the laws came out I didn't like it one bit to be forced to wear a helmet for short rides in the summer but I got used to the fact that it was forced upon me, I do think it's a lot more safe to wear a helmet in general, but there are occasions that I think it's not really adding to safety at all to wear a helmet, like the short trips in town I mentioned.

And yes, I did make a few crashes without my helmet on like the one time I got hit by a car while I was waiting for a stop sign to turn green but never got my head injured, I found that ancles are a lot more accident prone on a bike, in town that is. I never road the highway without a helmet because I wanted some protection from flying bugs and the occasional flying stone that Trapper mentioned.
 
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  #212 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:11 PM
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kinda hypocritical tho to have 'marijuana' illegal, yet you can buy pipes, wraps, bongs and the like with no problem.
 
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  #213 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kristeejo
kinda hypocritical tho to have 'marijuana' illegal, yet you can buy pipes, wraps, bongs and the like with no problem.
Hypocritical is written all over the "marijuana laws" if you ask me.
 
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  #214 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
and at first when the laws came out I didn't like it one bit to be forced to wear a helmet for short rides in the summer but I got used to the fact that it was forced upon me, I do think it's a lot more safe to wear a helmet in general, but there are occasions that I think it's not really adding to safety at all to wear a helmet, like the short trips in town I mentioned.
having long hair would make it a bigger pain the butt. That's one of the reasons I keep my hair very short, no joke.

Quote:
kinda hypocritical tho to have 'marijuana' illegal, yet you can buy pipes, wraps, bongs and the like with no problem.
where the hell did you come from?
how long have you been standing there?
 
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  #215 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:18 PM
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just got back from hours of meetings....caught the tail end.
 
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  #216 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dustin07
When will we pull out of Iraq is your true question though, right? LIkely when their government is ready to take full control. Which appears to be close.
Where in the WORLD do you get the idea that it "appears to be close?"
 
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  #217 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by petertdavis
You don't seriously think that anyone is kept on reservations do you?
The american government formed reservations, much like the gettos, to hold a group of people. Yes.
 
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  #218 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin07
@ Peter and Ferre.

Ferre, because of the rights of local Indians, many animals in the US are damn near wiped out. They don't respect the same game laws we do and it kills off populations of fish and wildlife. This is a real issue, I'm an avid sportsman and I know what I'm talking about here.

however, Peter... Ferre brings up a valid point. Why should the Indians on their own land have to respect our anti-pot laws?
Did you just compare animals being "killed off" as the same as the native Americans??
 
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  #219 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 01:00 PM
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Did you just compare animals being "killed off" as the same as the native Americans??

no.





that was hours ago.
 
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  #220 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2006, 01:02 PM
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I honestly can't remember the context of which I posted that. I think I was referring to the differences in freedoms (not looking for a freedom debate here...). hell I can't remember. I'll think about it and go back and reread.
 
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