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Old 10-22-2012, 08:11 AM
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Obama And Romney Both Favor A One World Economic System That Kills American Jobs

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Either way this election turns out, American jobs are going to continue to get slaughtered by the millions. During this campaign, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama have both attempted to portray each other as the "outsourcer in chief". Unfortunately, they are both right. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have both participated in the outsourcing of American jobs, and both are openly admitting to the American people that they favor the emerging one world economic system which will continue to destroy millions of American jobs.

In fact, they argue with each other about which of them will be more aggressive in pursuing more "free trade" agreements over the next four years. Unfortunately, the "free trade" agreements that the U.S. government enters into are never "fair trade" agreements. As a result, over the past decade we have lost tens of thousands of businesses, millions of jobs and trillions of dollars of national wealth. This year alone, we will buy about half a trillion dollars more stuff from the rest of the world than they will buy from us.

This trade deficit will be about 7 times larger than the trade deficit of any other nation on earth. Our economy will continue to bleed jobs at a horrifying pace, but Obama and Romney insist that the answer to our problems is even more "free trade". What makes all of this even more dreadful is that most Americans continue to fall for this nonsense.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that merging our labor pool with the labor pools of nations where it is legal to pay slave labor wages was going to kill American jobs and drive down wages for the jobs that remain in the United States.

Why should some giant predator corporation pay you 15 dollars an hour plus benefits when they can pay a worker on the other side of the planet a dollar an hour with no benefits to do the same job?

During the second presidential debate, when Obama was asked why high tech products such as the iPhone could not be made here in the United States, Obama openly admitted that there are some jobs that aren't ever going to come back.

But why does that have to be so?

Why can't those jobs come back to America?

It seems to me that if you cracked down on nations that are cheating such as China, imposed a system of common sense tariffs and cut the corporate tax rate to a level more consistent with the rest of the world that you could get a lot of those jobs flooding back in by the end of next year.

But Obama is so blinded by his faith in the emerging one world economy that such measures are unimaginable to him.

In recent years, the Obama administration has entered into new "free trade" agreements with Panama, South Korea and Colombia. In addition, the Obama administration is making the Trans-Pacific Partnership ("the NAFTA of the Pacific") a very high priority.

Considering what a nightmare the first NAFTA was, do we really need another one?

The Trans-Pacific Partnership is a treaty that would essentially ban all "Buy American" laws. It is being touted as one of the most comprehensive "free trade" agreements in history, and it would open up the door for millions more good jobs to be shipped out of the country.

The workers of America simply cannot afford another four years of Barack Obama.

In fact, the Obama administration has actually spent billions of taxpayer dollars to create jobs in other countries. The following is from a pro-Republican website...
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/a...-american-jobs

I have heard many times that many jobs overseas are lost for ever...why sending jobs overseas is not considered "National Security" because when you think about it, that's what it is.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:20 PM
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Keep in mind, there is a very large difference between the businessman outsourcing in order to increase company profits for share holders, and a sitting President of the United States that outsources outside our own country.

I mean lets face it, if you want to stay in business, make the amount of profit that allows a business to not only stay above water but also grow, and if there are share holders provide them a return, if that was your charge would you not consider all avenues then choose the one that provided the best result?

I wrote a piece in here a couple of years ago about Restrictions, Mandates, and other things that are strangling, have been strangling the Manufacturing and Business world in this country. It is worse in some areas than others, many times the reason that companies that have resided in a particular town/city/state picks up and moves to a new location is because that area has become so expensive to operate in that it is actually cheaper to go with the relocation expense. Not to mention that Unions are their own worst enemies a lot of times as we saw with GM and other companies, such a force is put upon a company to pay way more than should be in many cases that it simply makes them non-competitive and unable to make a profit. And before it is mentioned, a corporation GE, GM, etc that has share holders and investors they are responsible to their main mission is to ensure the return on investment, company health, and potential growth/market share. It is not because they personally are or are not greedy, sure that makes a difference but that is actually the bottom line of their job.

Don't know why but people have a habit of looking at all corporations as a single individual. It is very possible that is the case, though in most larger corporations there are a very vast number of people depending on that corporation, 401k, employment, product....and so on and so on...

By the way, Obama actually broke the law when he hand held GM through specialized bankruptcy in order to make sure union heads got the better end of the deal at the expense of the supposedly secured investor...another help to stimulate the economy
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by webcrafters View Post
It is worse in some areas than others, many times the reason that companies that have resided in a particular town/city/state picks up and moves to a new location is because that area has become so expensive to operate in that it is actually cheaper to go with the relocation expense.
I am glad that you mentioned that. I beleive what you said is true, but that's unfortunately just a side of the story. Corporations profit from the different costs of living based in each state they operate to pay lower wages.

IMO when you work for a corporation your wage is based on your qualifications, the type of work assigned and the corporation's wage policy. Today you can work in the same corporation and get from coast to coast a huge wage difference for the same position in the very same corporation. It is not a job market issue, it is the corporate mind set. Again IMO, it will help the states where these corporations operate to grow, but not the way it is working, why?

Quote:
Not to mention that Unions are their own worst enemies a lot of times as we saw with GM and other companies, such a force is put upon a company to pay way more than should be in many cases that it simply makes them non-competitive and unable to make a profit.
I think it is very subjective to know what "to pay way more than should be". For example in Europe, benefits are perhaps 50 times higher than in US and the main Europeen corporations are still there. Europeen Wages are superior than US wages and shareholders are still owning their shares.

Quote:
And before it is mentioned, a corporation GE, GM, etc that has share holders and investors they are responsible to their main mission is to ensure the return on investment, company health, and potential growth/market share. It is not because they personally are or are not greedy, sure that makes a difference but that is actually the bottom line of their job.
There I disagree with you. First ol all GM is not a car builder anymore but rather an assembler, because 70% of car parts are made overseas mainly from China . Second of all, GE took the same path, most of the GE parts are made in China.


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Don't know why but people have a habit of looking at all corporations as a single individual. It is very possible that is the case, though in most larger corporations there are a very vast number of people depending on that corporation, 401k, employment, product....and so on and so on...
According to the new law, a corporation is considerated like an individual, which is in fact completly false. A corporation is a group of people, period!

You know, the US economy is based on consumption at 70%, if you destroy the people buying power by reducing wages to be more competitive, and all the corporate bs coming with it, in long term it is not only the economy they will destroy but the complete society.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:26 PM
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IMO when you work for a corporation your wage is based on your qualifications, the type of work assigned and the corporation's wage policy. Today you can work in the same corporation and get from coast to coast a huge wage difference for the same position in the very same corporation. It is not a job market issue, it is the corporate mind set. Again IMO, it will help the states where these corporations operate to grow, but not the way it is working, why?
If I am understanding what you are saying on this one, someone that lives say in Atlanta, Georgia, Valdosta, Georgia, Los Angeles, or New York get paid differently not because of the job market but because of a corporate mind set? If this is what you are actually attempting to say, let us take a couple things into example here first.....

If you live where I do, a small town then the cost of living is pretty low, if I were making $100,000 a year here I would be extremely well off, if I moved to Valdosta larger city then I would still be well off but not quite as much. On the other hand if I moved to Atlanta and made that same amount and attempted to live a similar lifestyle I would just be comfortable at best. Now lets take the others, if I were to move to New York, or to Los Angeles that same wage would be proportionately low with no hope to lead a similar lifestyle in those areas. So if what you are saying is taken as true, I should only make the same amount of money irregardless of the environment/location I am in and have to pay for?

Quote:
There I disagree with you. First ol all GM is not a car builder anymore but rather an assembler, because 70% of car parts are made overseas mainly from China . Second of all, GE took the same path, most of the GE parts are made in China.
What is the job description or contract for a corporate executive? That is what we need to evaluate their behavior by, not a stereotyped biased point of view. That's all I was attempting to say. They have a job, they do that job. Yes there are some that go overboard, or feed on the greed and power, but not all of them, there are actually people around even in executive positions that were raised with the same ethics and morals as those who are not executives

Quote:
According to the new law, a corporation is considerated like an individual, which is in fact completly false. A corporation is a group of people, period!

You know, the US economy is based on consumption at 70%, if you destroy the people buying power by reducing wages to be more competitive, and all the corporate bs coming with it, in long term it is not only the economy they will destroy but the complete society.
If, and yes I know if is a big word, but if production costs were actually lowered for a company, do you think possibly that they may lower their prices and become more competitive able to make even a higher profit as they could increase product sold?
That can go either way, but a capitalistic system allowed to function this would likely happen at least to some degree, and then the power of consumer demand would make those that had failed to do so on their own have to either fall in line or go out of business.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by webcrafters View Post
If I am understanding what you are saying on this one, someone that lives say in Atlanta, Georgia, Valdosta, Georgia, Los Angeles, or New York get paid differently not because of the job market but because of a corporate mind set? If this is what you are actually attempting to say, let us take a couple things into example here first.....

If you live where I do, a small town then the cost of living is pretty low, if I were making $100,000 a year here I would be extremely well off, if I moved to Valdosta larger city then I would still be well off but not quite as much. On the other hand if I moved to Atlanta and made that same amount and attempted to live a similar lifestyle I would just be comfortable at best. Now lets take the others, if I were to move to New York, or to Los Angeles that same wage would be proportionately low with no hope to lead a similar lifestyle in those areas. So if what you are saying is taken as true, I should only make the same amount of money irregardless of the environment/location I am in and have to pay for?
Well in this situation some corporations can decide to operate only in low wage states because of the environment/location and keep the majority of wealth for them or their shareholders. This concept is not balanced.

I believe that each part of the corporation should have a part of the pie proportional to their contribution, after all a corporation is a group of people working for the same goal.

For example a corporation selling national services or national products will charge the same amount among all the people in every state. Now they can find an excuse like the cost of living to pay people less in low cost of living states.


Quote:
If, and yes I know if is a big word, but if production costs were actually lowered for a company, do you think possibly that they may lower their prices and become more competitive able to make even a higher profit as they could increase product sold?
It makes sense, but lowering cost and make higher profit can only work if people have the buying power. Without people buying power, you can offer what you want, nobody will buy.

Quote:
That can go either way, but a capitalistic system allowed to function this would likely happen at least to some degree, and then the power of consumer demand would make those that had failed to do so on their own have to either fall in line or go out of business.
I am for a balanced capitalism, not a one sided captalism system.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:24 PM
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I am for a balanced capitalism, not a one sided captalism system.
And who decides what's "balanced" and controls the companies to make that happen?

Politicians in Washington? Unelected federal bureaucrats?

Not in a free country, they don't. Government-controlled capitalism isn't capitalism at all.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:24 PM
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A capitalistic system is supposed to work with checks and balances. A supply and demand, competition, consumer confidence, and consumer action/reaction. A limited amount of regulation to fill in a whole here and there for the most obvious things, mostly to give the effect in the same style of keeping a functional nuclear arsenal to dissuade the other side from being to aggressive, something that is there but hopefully never has to be used.

Certain things like allowing across state lines health and auto insurance sales will open up competition between the customers, but also a relative way for the consumer to be able to react efficiently should they disagree with or become unhappy with what they have, as it stands those options are extremely limited. Whenever the government intervenes through regulation or mandates it often has a effect that was not compensated for, or even thought of, it also many times actually weakens the consumer as it gives the consumer a false sense of security, or limits their options....how many phone companies or power companies are there in a given area? Ever wonder why phone rates dropped so rapidly over the last decade? Competition and choice, the introduction of competition into the market, when they broke up Ma Bell as a monopoly in the 70's they actually had done little more than create a number of smaller monopolies (sanctioned).

Another thing that comes to mind and it just kills me to no end....when the minimum wage is raised...to me that just makes no sense. The effect is that those that are making a wage above minimum wage actually begins having a lower income as theirs stays the same. Minimum wage employees become more expensive for companies/stores so what happens next? The price of products goes up to compensate so where did that profit from the minimum wage earners go? No where it just raised the cost of living is all...
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:03 PM
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We are all to blame for those jobs being over there. That includes me.

Every time you go to the low price leader and buy the cheapest version of whatever it is you bought. I pay less for some items than I did 30 years ago. I'm not naive enough to think my dollar is worth more now.

Are you?
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Barr View Post
And who decides what's "balanced" and controls the companies to make that happen?

Politicians in Washington? Unelected federal bureaucrats?

Not in a free country, they don't. Government-controlled capitalism isn't capitalism at all.
Corporate Profits Were the Highest on Record Last Quarter

Quote:
The nationís workers may be struggling, but American companies just had their best quarter ever.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/bu...my/24econ.html

Do you think it is the way to go for people?
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by webcrafters View Post
A capitalistic system is supposed to work with checks and balances. A supply and demand, competition, consumer confidence, and consumer action/reaction. A limited amount of regulation to fill in a whole here and there for the most obvious things, mostly to give the effect in the same style of keeping a functional nuclear arsenal to dissuade the other side from being to aggressive, something that is there but hopefully never has to be used.

Certain things like allowing across state lines health and auto insurance sales will open up competition between the customers, but also a relative way for the consumer to be able to react efficiently should they disagree with or become unhappy with what they have, as it stands those options are extremely limited. Whenever the government intervenes through regulation or mandates it often has a effect that was not compensated for, or even thought of, it also many times actually weakens the consumer as it gives the consumer a false sense of security, or limits their options....how many phone companies or power companies are there in a given area? Ever wonder why phone rates dropped so rapidly over the last decade? Competition and choice, the introduction of competition into the market, when they broke up Ma Bell as a monopoly in the 70's they actually had done little more than create a number of smaller monopolies (sanctioned).

Another thing that comes to mind and it just kills me to no end....when the minimum wage is raised...to me that just makes no sense. The effect is that those that are making a wage above minimum wage actually begins having a lower income as theirs stays the same. Minimum wage employees become more expensive for companies/stores so what happens next? The price of products goes up to compensate so where did that profit from the minimum wage earners go? No where it just raised the cost of living is all...
That's way off what I have quoted LOL It looks like we avoid something there
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ScriptMan View Post
We are all to blame for those jobs being over there. That includes me.

Every time you go to the low price leader and buy the cheapest version of whatever it is you bought. I pay less for some items than I did 30 years ago. I'm not naive enough to think my dollar is worth more now.

Are you?
Actually, I prefere to avoid buying cheap crap stuffs, but that's just me

Sadly, sometimes you don't have any choice, the good companies making and selling great products are gone.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:36 PM
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Actually, I prefere to avoid buying cheap crap stuffs, but that's just me

Sadly, sometimes you don't have any choice, the good companies making and selling great products are gone.

I could drop in and we could do an inventory.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:41 PM
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Is this the kind of society you want?

The ratio of corporate profits to wages is now higher than at any time since just before the Great Depression.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...fits-wages-hi/

Profits Are Booming. Why Aren’t Jobs?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/we.../09powell.html

Real Wages Fell In 2011 Amid Record Corporate Profits
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1244297.html

Are Corporate Profits A Bubble Waiting To Go Bust?
http://seekingalpha.com/article/7758...ing-to-go-bust

Top dogs' corporate profits hit new records. Still hoarding gobs of cash, still barely hiring
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...-barely-hiring

Corporate Profits Just Hit An All-Time High, Wages Just Hit An All-Time Low
http://www.businessinsider.com/corpo...ime-low-2012-6

Record-Breaking Year for Corporate Profits
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/16567...orate-profits/
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:06 PM
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All of your posts, at least on this thread, seem to be based on the idea that greedy corporations are exploiting their workers in order to maximize their profits and that there's something wrong with them doing that. Also, you seem to be advocating that government should have the power to control the companies in order to prevent them from doing these things.

Am I reading your sentiments correctly?
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:30 PM
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All of your posts, at least on this thread, seem to be based on the idea that greedy corporations are exploiting their workers in order to maximize their profits and that there's something wrong with them doing that. Also, you seem to be advocating that government should have the power to control the companies in order to prevent them from doing these things.

Am I reading your sentiments correctly?
Not completly The government shouldn't control the companies from having profits, but I really think that the corporations shouldn't have governement subsidies paid by taxpayer money.

What Mitt Romney will do in your opinion? The same Bain capital policy to the entire country?

Remember government do not create jobs, only companies create jobs. Why Mitt Romney as President will create 12 millions jobs? A president or a governement cannot create jobs, only companies create jobs, right?

President Obama is not so bad as described by Republicans, corporations have never made so much profits. Do you think Mitt Romney will increase even more the mega corporations profits?
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:07 PM
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Listen to what Professor Michael E. Porter from the Harward Business School have to say about Rethinking Capitalism.


[YT]LrsjLA2NGTU[/YT]
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:24 PM
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As Corporate Profits Rise, Workers’ Income Declines
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/06/bu...he-charts.html

Sorry I couldn't resist: http://www.aflcio.org/apps/paywatch/...fographic.html

It seems like we are regressing in the 18th century mind set where the lords keep the wealth and the peasants are just exploited. It reminds me the book Germinal by Emile Zola: Aristocrats and Bourgeois that kept the wealth and disrespected the workers by keepting them in their miserable life style.
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:15 PM
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This may be confusing, but there is a reason that in the states it is referred to as a "Job Market" the reason being that it is actually a retail like market that is influenced by supply and demand.

With that in mind when there is such a massively high unemployment rate does it not then make sense that the rates at which companies are going to pay employees is going to go down? There is a lower demand and a higher supply, increased competition. What this means is that a business looking for a computer technician for say that would in a competitive job market be willing to pay a higher rate in order to ensure they are able to recruit the best, brightest, and most likely to stay type of employee are not going to feel the necessity to offer the same high pay rate they would in a more demanding market. When you change it from say 10 qualified candidates for that position to 1,000 qualified candidates looking for that position then the competition is gone for the employer, or at least extremely low and they can afford not to offer premium pay rates, aren't as afraid to "weed the garden" so to speak of current employees who are either not working up to expectations or whatever reason. As I used to tell my dealers back in the early '90's when I sold Kirby Vacuums door to door...."Any of you can be replaced with a $10 ad" and that was the case. The same is true today, in most cases there are thousands of qualified applicants already on hand just waiting for an opportunity of almost any position.

Now, if we take the reverse of today's employee/job market and we create far fewer qualified employees and increase the number of jobs available then the rate of pay will rise as the supply of employees is lower and the demand for them is raised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
As Corporate Profits Rise, Workers’ Income Declines
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/06/bu...he-charts.html

Sorry I couldn't resist: http://www.aflcio.org/apps/paywatch/...fographic.html

It seems like we are regressing in the 18th century mind set where the lords keep the wealth and the peasants are just exploited. It reminds me the book Germinal by Emile Zola: Aristocrats and Bourgeois that kept the wealth and disrespected the workers by keepting them in their miserable life style.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:38 PM
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This may be confusing, but there is a reason that in the states it is referred to as a "Job Market" the reason being that it is actually a retail like market that is influenced by supply and demand.

With that in mind when there is such a massively high unemployment rate does it not then make sense that the rates at which companies are going to pay employees is going to go down?
Frankly no, why not stop paying employees when we are in a very deep recession?


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There is a lower demand and a higher supply, increased competition. What this means is that a business looking for a computer technician for say that would in a competitive job market be willing to pay a higher rate in order to ensure they are able to recruit the best, brightest, and most likely to stay type of employee are not going to feel the necessity to offer the same high pay rate they would in a more demanding market. When you change it from say 10 qualified candidates for that position to 1,000 qualified candidates looking for that position then the competition is gone for the employer, or at least extremely low and they can afford not to offer premium pay rates, aren't as afraid to "weed the garden" so to speak of current employees who are either not working up to expectations or whatever reason. As I used to tell my dealers back in the early '90's when I sold Kirby Vacuums door to door...."Any of you can be replaced with a $10 ad" and that was the case. The same is true today, in most cases there are thousands of qualified applicants already on hand just waiting for an opportunity of almost any position.

Now, if we take the reverse of today's employee/job market and we create far fewer qualified employees and increase the number of jobs available then the rate of pay will rise as the supply of employees is lower and the demand for them is raised.
I will respond shortly, really the employers game of job market and supply and demand are completly manipulated. It is easy to extend the job market into a pool of third countries and said that you have to compete with them. Honestly it is impossible to make a living in US with a third country wage like China $0.25 an hour or even in the south America where they are paid less.

IMO, it is completly dishonest and unpatriotic.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
Frankly no, why not stop paying employees when we are in a very deep recession?
And here I thought I was over simplifying things .




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I will respond shortly, really the employers game of job market and supply and demand are completly manipulated. It is easy to extend the job market into a pool of third countries and said that you have to compete with them. Honestly it is impossible to make a living in US with a third country wage like China $0.25 an hour or even in the south America where they are paid less.

IMO, it is completly dishonest and unpatriotic.
I really do not know what to say, it seems to me that you are blanketing/stereo typing every single company and corporation into one group here. Not to mention every job category being blanketed into one market behavior. Kinda like every southerner loves Grits, every Yankee loves Cincinnati style chili and so on...
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