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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Personally, I'd like to see voluntary participation in the union offered anywhere there is one.
One should have the option to deal directly with management and avoid joining a union where one exists.
Actually that's how it works in France for the companies with more than 50 employees. You've got an employee delegate in small companies of 11 employees, 1 delegate and 1 union delegates in companies with more than 50 employees, etc

We are making the distinction between both, so it is not necessary the union who will represent the employees, but they are there to give all legal information.

Look we have an entire "Code du travail" labor laws and that's huge.
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affich...Texte=20121117

I didn't find the English version, but you can translate the pages.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:39 PM
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You have also the convention collectives which are agreements between employers and workers for each industry. They are specifications about wages, work hours, and overtime.

Again in each company with more than 50 employees there is a delegate of "comité d'entreprise" which manage the employees company fund, the employer need to give 1% of his company profit (that's the law) for "le comité d'entreprise" which is an employees fund used for reductions on shows, travels, vacations, stores, etc
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:54 AM
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My current understanding is that Mckee Foods owner of Little Debbie is not a union shop. That and product quality might explain why they can be cheaper.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:00 AM
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A unionized workforce often earns higher wages. However, according to Francis Kramarz, an economics professor at Ecole Polytechnique in France, this increase in wages may come at the expense of fewer jobs. Union members generally pay dues and, according to Kramarz, outsourcing labor to other countries can raise the cost of dues. Union workers are more likely to receive benefits than those in a non-unionized workforce, according to the BLS. Regardless if a work force is unionized or not, companies and employees rely on the viability of the enterprise and the continuity of production, which a company can achieve through structural and managerial changes. Some union policies may detract from worker satisfaction and lead to higher rates of employee turnover, poor work quality and strikes.
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/diffe...rce-22350.html

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Research indicates that the cost of running a unionized operation is 25% to 35% greater than for a non-unionized one, and this figure does not reflect any negotiated changes in unionized employee wages or benefits. As an illustration consider what we found at a recent Adams, Nash, Haskell & Sheridan national seminar when we reviewed the administrative budgets of a major manufacturing company. This well-known company operates 30 manufacturing plants; half are union free and half are unionized all or in part. The administrative budgets of the unionized plants were 30% higher due to:
http://www.anh.com/Content/The_Cost_of_Unions.asp
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:47 AM
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Christmas could be a little tough without Ho Hos.


no ho zone stickers by basement143
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:48 AM
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Ecole Polytechnique in France? lol most of them are just kids from the riches, of course they will say that, plus a lot of them will never work in the private sector, they usually go in the Army or the government
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:16 AM
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Frankly many people in France criticize the Unions, but they forgot what the Unions and their members obtained from strikes, negociations with the employers, etc, etc to make the working conditions better for the workers.

They can thank them for the "code du travail" and "convention collectives", 5 weeks (6 in Paris) paid vacations, illimited sick days paid, health care system and all the social benefits.

Today I don't know anyone who wants to get out of our health care system, and why so much foreign people want to live in France.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:09 AM
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The worker said he blames management more than he blames his fellow union members who went on strike. And he's worried about the future.

"I'm 61, I was two years away from retirement," he said. "There aren't many jobs out there for someone like me."

However, other workers said the concessions being demanded by Hostess were just too great.

Mike Hummell, a receiving clerk and a member of the Bakers' union working in Lenexa, Kan., said he was making about $48,000 in 2005 before the company's first trip through bankruptcy. Concessions during that reorganization cut his pay to $34,000 last year, earning $16.12 an hour. He said the latest contract demands would have cut his pay to about $25,000, with significantly higher out-of-pocket expenses for insurance.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/16/news...stess-workers/


From $48,000 in 2005 to $25,000 now with benefits cuts too is a pretty heavy price for mismanagements and errors from the directors board of this corporation.

The history also tell that running this company even with cuts and employees wage reductions may not allow the survival of this corporation.

From my experience I went in the similar process, the corporation asked for cuts after been in bankruptcy, I took the decision to get out and refused any cuts, then the other employees stayed one more year before the company closed the doors.

Sometimes it is better to start over somewhere else and stand for what your skills worth.
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Last edited by Franc Tireur; 11-18-2012 at 11:24 AM.
 
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2012, 11:21 AM
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Union versus Hostess...-rip.jpg  
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:33 PM
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R.I.P.
Not so fast.

Hostess Shutdown on Hold, Unions Agree to Mediation

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Hostess Brands and a key union agreed Monday to try to mediate their dispute in coming days -- an unexpected development that could spare the company from permanently shutting down.

The Bakery Workers union, which represents 5,000 of the 18,500 employees at the maker of Twinkies and Wonder Bread, went on strike on Nov. 9. The company had imposed paycuts and other concessions on its membership.
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktl...,5097250.story
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:42 PM
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Hostess Workers' Pension Money Diverted For Other Uses

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Hostess Brands acknowledged for the first time in a news report Monday that the company diverted workers' pension money for other company uses.

The bankrupt baker told The Wall Street Journal that money taken out of workers' paychecks, intended for their retirement funds, was used for company operations instead. Hostess, which was under different management at the time the diversions began in August 2011, said it does not know how much money it took.

"It's not a good situation to have," Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn told the WSJ.

"Whatever the circumstances were, whatever those decisions were, I wasn't there," Rayburn added. As the founder and owner of Kobi Partners, a restructuring advisory firm, Rayburn was appointed acting CEO in March 2012.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2271868.html

WoW! Workers' pension money for other company uses...
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:35 PM
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Hostess Workers' Pension Money Diverted For Other Uses



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2271868.html

WoW! Workers' pension money for other company uses...
Have you met Social Security?? Not condoning the act by any means and multiple wrongs definitely do not make a right. But this isn't a news flash as something that has never been done before, nor is it justification for the result of the Union actions. Other means could have been garnered in order to replace that which was used, to bolster the financial stability of the company. What is the end result for the workers after the strike, refusal to negotiate and finally the closing. What opportunities are there for future wages or retirement replenishment now?

Seems to me working together a lot more could have gotten accomplished in a positive way if dare I say Ego could be taken out of the equation from both sides?
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by webcrafters View Post
Have you met Social Security?? Not condoning the act by any means and multiple wrongs definitely do not make a right. But this isn't a news flash as something that has never been done before, nor is it justification for the result of the Union actions. Other means could have been garnered in order to replace that which was used, to bolster the financial stability of the company. What is the end result for the workers after the strike, refusal to negotiate and finally the closing. What opportunities are there for future wages or retirement replenishment now?

Seems to me working together a lot more could have gotten accomplished in a positive way if dare I say Ego could be taken out of the equation from both sides?
For me this kind of thing is shocking and I guess it is because I come from another system where the government protect much more the workers by laws. For instance, the pension money is collected from a private special retirement funds so it is much more safe than to let the company manage it.

As far as working together, I think they already did that in the past, perhaps it was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2012, 03:57 AM
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For me this kind of thing is shocking and I guess it is because I come from another system where the government protect much more the workers by laws. For instance, the pension money is collected from a private special retirement funds so it is much more safe than to let the company manage it.

As far as working together, I think they already did that in the past, perhaps it was the straw that broke the camel's back.
It seems it happened under different management last year and that attempts were in the works to reorder the company and get things back on track.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2012, 05:02 AM
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It seems it happened under different management last year and that attempts were in the works to reorder the company and get things back on track.
I think you're going a little easy on the company due to your dislike for unions.
Can you seriously say that if you were an employee of the company and had been mistreated (in your view) by the company that you would fully trust the "reordering" of that same company?
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

In the end, it seems the employees were right to be a little aprehensive about dealing with the company. The company was ripping them off. That's theft.
 
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...739413332.html

Hostess hasn't previously acknowledged that the foregone wages went toward its operations.

The maneuver probably doesn't violate federal law because the money Hostess failed to put into the pension didn't come directly from employees, experts said.

"It's what lawyers call betrayal without remedy,"
said James P. Baker, a partner at Baker & McKenzie LLP who specializes in employee benefits and isn't involved in the Hostess case. "It's sad, but that stuff does happen, unfortunately."

Quote:
Natural E: For me this kind of thing is shocking and I guess it is because I come from another system where the government protect much more the workers by laws.

"It's what lawyers call betrayal without remedy,"


it is not withstanding that "betrayal" is not a matter of law by the political persuasion represented by US labour laws, and the necessary reason for their reforms.

Natural is right to be shocked that Labourers in the US are so antiquated against fundamental representation.
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