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Old 11-16-2012, 11:52 AM
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Union versus Hostess...

Okay, I know, I am a glutton for punishment here, but could someone explain to me the logic behind 18,500 people losing their jobs, and a company that has been around since 1930 and is responsible for a great number of fond memories in one aspect or another in almost every child's life, especially from my generation....

I am wondering how many of the 18,500 newly unemployed people from hostess are happy and satisfied about the results?
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:01 PM
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The company, which filed for bankruptcy protection in January for the second time since 2004, said it had filed a motion with U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain in White Plains, N.Y., for permission to shut down and sell assets.
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Union President Frank Hurt said on Thursday that the crisis at the company was the "result of nearly a decade of financial and operational mismanagement" and that management was trying to make union workers the scapegoats for a plan by Wall Street investors to sell Hostess.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49852161
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:17 PM
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Not having access to the books, and what the facts and figures actually are in the company. As with every company I have no doubt some bad decision have taken place. Is that resulting in the closing of the company? Again, without insider knowledge do we really know?

As for the statement by the Union Leader, when in the history of unions has any company's demise, loss, or inability to compete ever been even remotely related to the Union?
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:18 PM
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Twinke no more. You beat to to it.

Here is another story about it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20364595

Hint: no one will blame the unions.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:18 PM
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Odd that folks don't seem to think the bankruptcy is the fault of those in control of the company's finances.
If a company that's been around since the 1930s is brought down by union negotiations, then I would suggest that capitalism is working as it should here, and a weaker player is making room for a stronger one.
 
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Odd that folks don't seem to think the bankruptcy is the fault of those in control of the company's finances.
If a company that's been around since the 1930s is brought down by union negotiations, then I would suggest that capitalism is working as it should here, and a weaker player is making room for a stronger one.
Hey there Zap

Well, I have to admit, I have never been overly fond of unions. While they did have their purpose I still get the feel of some type of Ponzi Scheme or Pyramid Scheme kind of feel off how they operate.

As for a company having to declare bankruptcy, of course those in charge shoulder a major amount of blame, simply no doubt about that. Though as for Hostess, they have seen a massive amount of competition hit the market over the last couple of decades, that combined with the major health conscious push...sometimes to the extreme that absolutely no sweets whatsoever is allowed in a child's mouth, or to enter the house. So their market has drastically shifted, and they have not done a very good job shifting with that market.

Whether this is the case or not, I am not sure, but sometimes unions do have a habit of being all about making the most money and nothing about company health. Companies that fall to these types of negotiations are at fault, but I would think too that the Union would have to bear responsibility as well, so would the employees. If a company is having trouble would it not be in the best interest of the company and those they employee to work together and ensure the health of all of their livelihood?

You know what I mean regardless of how it sounds. Just seems to me that there are now 18,500 people without jobs, even if they had to take cuts they were still employed, if they chose as individuals to not take those cuts they could leave on their own, if the chose to look for something better they could take the lesser amount until something better was found, now they are all just simply stuck living on a smaller fraction than they were being asked to take on. Now living on a limited supply of unemployment.

And like an empty house is often more difficult to sell, it is much more difficult for an unemployed person to find work than one that is employed.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:34 PM
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Frankly, I wish more companies would do the same thing. I detest unions and the union mentality. They have long outlived their purpose.

As for the people, I am sorry for any non-union workers in the group. The rest of them are reaping what they sowed.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by webcrafters View Post
Whether this is the case or not, I am not sure, but sometimes unions do have a habit of being all about making the most money and nothing about company health. Companies that fall to these types of negotiations are at fault, but I would think too that the Union would have to bear responsibility as well, so would the employees. If a company is having trouble would it not be in the best interest of the company and those they employee to work together and ensure the health of all of their livelihood?
There we go again

When a company laid off the people it is the normal process to save the company, but when there is a mismanagement the union bear responsability and so the employees I love your concept Webcrafters...
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Last edited by Franc Tireur; 11-16-2012 at 01:44 PM.
 
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:00 PM
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There we go again

When a company laid off the people it is the normal process to save the company, but when there is a mismanagement the union bear responsability and so the employees I love your concept Webcrafters...
Do you have proof there was that severe of a miss management?? The same could be said that regardless of any circumstances whatsoever there is always company mismanagement from the management and it never has anything to do with any other variables.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by webcrafters View Post
Do you have proof there was that severe of a miss management?? The same could be said that regardless of any circumstances whatsoever there is always company mismanagement from the management and it never has anything to do with any other variables.
The whole history of Hostess Brands
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostess_Brands


Hostess Bankruptcy: Company Files For Bankruptcy Just Two Years After Emerging From Bankruptcy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1198789.html
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Last edited by Franc Tireur; 11-16-2012 at 02:11 PM.
 
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:08 PM
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I'm imagining the reaction if Bain Capital were to buy up all of the company's brands, trademarks, and facilities. (I wonder how many people's heads would explode over that. )

They could then reopen the facilities (at least the ones in right-to-work states) and return the company to profitability.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:45 PM
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Well Mitt does need a job.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:49 PM
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I'm imagining the reaction if Bain Capital were to buy up all of the company's brands, trademarks, and facilities. (I wonder how many people's heads would explode over that. )
Actually I was thinking about that but I didn't want to put oil on the fire
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:11 PM
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Well Mitt does need a job.
I'm thinking "NEED" may be the wrong semantics....I believe he could retire any time he'd like
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:39 PM
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I'm not a big fan of unions, either.
They tend to serve themselves, rather than their members.

But I'm seeing a slant on this particular story, trying to paint this as the direct fault of the union.
I'm left wondering if the CEOs bear any responsibility at all after seeing some of the coverage.
There's no doubt that the trend has been moving towards healthier food choices, but the movement is very slow.
There's still no shortage of companies selling garbage and passing it off as food.
 
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:50 PM
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I'm not a big fan of unions, either.
They tend to serve themselves, rather than their members.

But I'm seeing a slant on this particular story, trying to paint this as the direct fault of the union.
I'm left wondering if the CEOs bear any responsibility at all after seeing some of the coverage.
There's no doubt that the trend has been moving towards healthier food choices, but the movement is very slow.
There's still no shortage of companies selling garbage and passing it off as food.
Union is better than nothing in my opinion.

The thing is that they went in bankruptcy for 7 years from 2004 to 2011 then, 2 years later they go back in bankruptcy again.

The first time they laid off more than 10,000 employees and certainely some wage reductions, then they tried again the second time. Perhaps the union and employees thought that enough was enough because the management wanted to break the last contract.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
I'm not a big fan of unions, either.
They tend to serve themselves, rather than their members.

But I'm seeing a slant on this particular story, trying to paint this as the direct fault of the union.
I'm left wondering if the CEOs bear any responsibility at all after seeing some of the coverage.
There's no doubt that the trend has been moving towards healthier food choices, but the movement is very slow.
There's still no shortage of companies selling garbage and passing it off as food.
It may be slanting that way, if so not specifically intentional. I started it off with stating that there was little doubt that the management had made mistakes, most do, some recover and some don't. As you stated though, Unions have a tendency to be self serving rather than keeping the best interest of their members in mind and that is my problem here.

Bottom line is 92% of the members voted for the strike, again not privy to how it was presented, what information was at hand, or what course of action was taken by the upper union members after the vote was completed. But I doubt the percentage of union members volunteering to not have a job any more permanently would have been quite so high.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:12 PM
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But I doubt the percentage of union members volunteering to not have a job any more permanently would have been quite so high.
They are adults and should have known when they were voting against the latest offer, taking the history of the company into consideration, that being without a job was a possible outcome.

Personally, I'd like to see voluntary participation in the union offered anywhere there is one.
One should have the option to deal directly with management and avoid joining a union where one exists.
 
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:25 PM
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They are adults and should have known when they were voting against the latest offer, taking the history of the company into consideration, that being without a job was a possible outcome.

Personally, I'd like to see voluntary participation in the union offered anywhere there is one.
One should have the option to deal directly with management and avoid joining a union where one exists.
I agree, it should be optional, no one should be extorted against their will
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:36 PM
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Has anyone considered that they are going out of business simply because Little Debbie's are substantially cheaper?
 
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