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Old 11-30-2012, 12:28 PM
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The U.N. Votes on Palestine

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President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority, speaking to the assembly’s member nations, said, “The General Assembly is called upon today to issue a birth certificate of the reality of the state of Palestine,” and he condemned what he called Israeli racism and colonialism. His remarks seemed aimed in part at Israel and in part at Hamas. But both quickly attacked him for the parts they found offensive.
“The world watched a defamatory and venomous speech that was full of mendacious propaganda against the Israel Defense Forces and the citizens of Israel,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel responded. “Someone who wants peace does not talk in such a manner.”
While Hamas had officially backed the United Nations bid of Mr. Abbas, it quickly criticized his speech because the group does not recognize Israel.
“There are controversial issues in the points that Abbas raised, and Hamas has the right to preserve its position over them,” said Salah al-Bardaweel, a spokesman for Hamas in Gaza, on Thursday.
“We do not recognize Israel, nor the partition of Palestine, and Israel has no right in Palestine,” he added. “Getting our membership in the U.N. bodies is our natural right, but without giving up any inch of Palestine’s soil.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/wo...-Israel.html#h[]
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:54 PM
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It's about bloody time that Palestine was recognized.
I'm disgusted with my own government for voting against recognition of statehood.
We used to stand for something.

Recognition of Palestine is very different from legitimizing Hamas. You'd think a "leader" would know that.
 
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
It's about bloody time that Palestine was recognized.
I'm disgusted with my own government for voting against recognition of statehood.
We used to stand for something.

Recognition of Palestine is very different from legitimizing Hamas. You'd think a "leader" would know that.
I had a feeling we might have at least slightly different views. Palestine should not have been given provisional recognition for multiple reasons. One I am afraid that the Palestinian government is not in control. Hamas has more control than the government does.

Palestine is little more than a pawn for whatever country and side feels they need their avenue for statement. I am not taking a side be it Iran, Hamas, Syria, Egypt, U.S., Israel....should I go on. Giving them the limited recognition that they were given did little if any good other than to once again use them as a tool to get to selfish ends by the other countries. This nonsense about being ashamed of your governments for not supporting the actions is questionable to me to be honest, to make a decision without an entire perspective is dangerous and much of the reason that things are the way they are in the Middle East.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:40 AM
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You can't really justify the reasoning for not voting for Palestine's recognition because of them being a pawn to other countries, after all Israel is America's pawn in the Middle East, they would have been defeated and wiped out years ago if it wasn't for the US backing them.
 
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:55 AM
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UNITED NATIONS — More than 130 countries voted on Thursday to upgrade Palestine to a nonmember observer state of the United Nations, a triumph for Palestinian diplomacy and a sharp rebuke to the United States and Israel.

The mistake was made in 1948 when Israel was established as a State while at the same time provisions for a Palestinian State were not also established - an obviously ingenuous resolution.


... to a nonmember observer state of the United Nations

who's kidding who ?
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:51 AM
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What defines a state? What must there be in order to qualify as one. Are there set standards or is this more of an arbitrary political and friends in the right places type of thing?
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:12 PM
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good question ... I would presume having at least a hector of land would help, and just what a "nonmember observer state" is might be an obvious follow up to the first one.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:35 PM
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Unhappy

This should have happened much earlier. So many innocent people have been killed by this time.
 
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post
good question ... I would presume having at least a hector of land would help, and just what a "nonmember observer state" is might be an obvious follow up to the first one.
From what I gather The Jews and the Palestinians were both under the impression that they were to given that land which is one of the major points of beginning contention. In 1948 Arabs had a mass exodus from Jerusalem due to the Arab Israeli war. There seems to be two sides to this story with both probably holding truth. One side of the story, that does not come strictly from Israel or sympathizers of Israel by the way is that the Arab army prompted those Arabs there to leave, some claim they were threatened with slaughter if they remained, the same slaughter the jews were going to experience.

The other side is that the Jews or Zionists prompted them to leave be it to leave for safety, to avoid slaughter, a similar action as that the U.S. imposed upon those in the States of Japanese descent after Pearl Harbor. Truth is that you get multiple stories depending on who it is that you talk to.

There are multiple sources on the subject and like I said they all say the two or three different sides claimed.

I am not familiar enough to really support either side, though it seems that much of the contention should be shouldered by the Turks who supposedly promised this land to the Palestinians and the British who were thought to have promised the land to Israel. Then again by the Arabs who also disregarded them during the war and I am sure had at least equal if not greater involvement at creating the situation i.e. exodus....

Perhaps it is an under dog thing that many support Palestine and hold such aversion to Israel perhaps it is something else. Israel though is not the sole persecutor of that area, seems there is much blame to go around.

When did Palestine form a formal government? Is that government actually in control or simply a figure head or ploy to hide other purposes?
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:58 PM
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I think every conuntry has a right regardless of wha situetion it is in, The size of the country is not the reason.
I think it was a political reason why this all issue took long to be resolved but am glad at the it happened.
 
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webcrafters View Post
I had a feeling we might have at least slightly different views. Palestine should not have been given provisional recognition for multiple reasons. One I am afraid that the Palestinian government is not in control. Hamas has more control than the government does.
Hamas is the red herring excuse used to deny Palestinians the right of self government and recognition as a nation state with all rights and duties therein.
If you want to punish Hamas, then punish Hamas.
There are real people involved, here, and most of them have done nothing wrong.
Would you suggest that the US be denied reconition as a nation simply because terrorist groups operate within it's borders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by webcrafters View Post
Palestine is little more than a pawn for whatever country and side feels they need their avenue for statement. I am not taking a side be it Iran, Hamas, Syria, Egypt, U.S., Israel....should I go on. Giving them the limited recognition that they were given did little if any good other than to once again use them as a tool to get to selfish ends by the other countries. This nonsense about being ashamed of your governments for not supporting the actions is questionable to me to be honest, to make a decision without an entire perspective is dangerous and much of the reason that things are the way they are in the Middle East.
Perhaps, by recognizing Palestine, a lot of these issues you raise can be addressed.
They certainly weren't being addressed properly before recognition, were they?
 
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