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Old 01-06-2013, 01:44 PM
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Unhappy Study reveals rocketing sense of entitlement on U.S. campuses


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Books aside, if you asked a college freshman today who the Greatest Generation is, they might respond by pointing in a mirror.

Young people's unprecedented level of self-infatuation was revealed in a new analysis of the American Freshman Survey, which has been asking students to rate themselves compared to their peers since 1966.

Roughly 9 million young people have taken the survey over the last 47 years.

Pyschologist Jean Twenge and her colleagues compiled the data and found that over the last four decades there's been a dramatic rise in the number of students who describe themselves as being 'above average' in the areas of academic ability, drive to achieve, mathematical ability, and self-confidence.

But in appraising the traits that are considered less invidualistic - co-operativeness, understanding others, and spirituality - the numbers either stayed at slightly decreased over the same period.

Researchers also found a disconnect between the student's opinions of themselves and actual ability.

While students are much more likely to call themselves gifted in writing abilities, objective test scores actually show that their writing abilities are far less than those of their 1960s counterparts.

Also on the decline is the amount of time spent studying, with little more than a third of students saying they study for six or more hours a week compared to almost half of all students claiming the same in the late 1980s.

Though they may work less, the number that said they had a drive to succeed rose sharply.

These young egotists can grow up to be depressed adults.

A 2006 study found that students suffer from 'ambition inflation' as their increased ambitions accompany increasingly unrealistic expectations.

'Since the 1960s and 1970s, when those expectations started to grow, there's been an increase in anxiety and depression,' Twenge said. 'There's going to be a lot more people who don't reach their goals.'

Twenge is the author of a separate study showing a 30 per cent increase towards narcissism in students since 1979.
Full Article : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ely-study.html
 
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:56 AM
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This finding is no surprise.

I think popular culture and it's dominant influence over American youth is the root of this issue.

And a school philosophy that values feelings over education has got to have this type of result. I think the current focus in our culture on bullying is important and has it's place but when was the last time you heard a prominent social figure espouse the value of math, science or literacy.

Davinci, Chaucer, Edison, Franklin, Tesla, Newton, Pauling, Hawking, popular? I think not.

I mean most kids think that Tesla is just a rock band. (Well, maybe not this generation!)

Laws to protect children from working.... why can't a 14 year old bag groceries? ... keep our children "kids" too long.

Twenty-five seems to be the new 15.

All I know, is if this generation is the one who is going to be paying into social security for me.... I'd better start saving.



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Old 01-08-2013, 10:08 AM
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pop culture is cultivating vanity in the youth. this is really nothing new except for the fact that it's now blatant.
 
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:29 PM
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Yea, and ask any recent college graduate who they owe the most money. Let's see how long big banks continue to get the sweetheart deal they have now.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:40 PM
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Yep. No child left behind has produced this result. I can't wait until they run into the reality of life. Then they explain how smart they feel.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dvduval View Post
Yea, and ask any recent college graduate who they owe the most money. Let's see how long big banks continue to get the sweetheart deal they have now.
The banks have a sweet deal because government is supporting and promoting college loans - just like they did with the housing market.

Government has suddenly declared that a college education is a right - just like home ownership.

We have seen the evidence of what happens when something that you earn becomes a right.

It will more than likely be the next big bubble....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_education_bubble


Because of the ready availability of government insured loans, students are allowed to rack up debt that far exceeds the value of their education.

Americans need to consider practicing fiscal responsibility ... no one holds a gun to your head when you purchase a house or a car you can't afford. No one makes you take out a student loan.

But in line with the idea of feeling entitled .... depriving yourself now so you can have something better in the future doesn't seem to be part of our cultural psyche.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:52 PM
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Here's a post showing that you don't have to have a 4-year degree to make a good salary:

http://www.elearners.com/online-educ...year-students/

My husband has a 2-year associates degree in computer technology and did just fine in his career.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:54 PM
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America’s PhDs on Food Stamps

http://www.onlinecolleges.net/2013/0...n-food-stamps/
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:19 PM
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What age is the typical American Freshman anyway? They look very young in those photographs.

Above average to one student might mean something totally different to another. Had I been asked to fill out such a survey, I would only have only been able to compare myself to my fellow students.

Would be interesting to see how these results would compare to results collected from universities over here.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
But PhD's in what exactly?

I guess folks should be pretty choosy when getting an advanced degree - they might end up unemployed if they pick the wrong one.

I'd like to see this data become more relevant by showing us what the masters and PhD degrees are in.

Maybe the people with advanced degrees who are on food stamps are there because they feel they are entitled to more than the job market will provide and instead of adjusting their expectations, they are choosing not to work.

Apparently, they could wait tables. That can pay pretty darn well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neontope View Post
What age is the typical American Freshman anyway? They look very young in those photographs.

Above average to one student might mean something totally different to another. Had I been asked to fill out such a survey, I would only have only been able to compare myself to my fellow students.

Would be interesting to see how these results would compare to results collected from universities over here.
Most first year college students are 18 - and they all look like babies to me

I think that it would be interesting to see results from other countries as well.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:24 PM
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And often the best colleges are filled with foreign students from wealthy families. The goal of education is to sell it to the person who can pay the most. I live near such a campus, and students from China and the Middle East are more common than US born residents. The schools are not really geared toward creating the best and the brightest here in the US anymore.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by txshellie View Post
But PhD's in what exactly?
I wouldn't ask this question because it depends on where these people can find a job whatever their specialty.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txshellie View Post
The banks have a sweet deal because government is supporting and promoting college loans - just like they did with the housing market.
I agree with you, but I blame the lobbyists, big money and the revolving door. There have been many attempts to pass regulation to regulate banks more, not treat corporations like they are people, limit lobbying activities and the list goes on. I believe there has been more resistance from the right on these items, so I too blame the government with these caveats.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Elements View Post
I wouldn't ask this question because it depends on where these people can find a job whatever their specialty.
I really don't understand what you mean by this..... because if you are going to spend $100,000+ on an education, it seems that what you major in is an important issue.

Top 10 Useless College Degrees and Classes

I propose that the reason we have these types of lame degrees in existence are:

1. Entitled children are allowed to major in any goofy thing without a thought to future marketability relying on their parents or government subsidized government loans and grants to foot the bill for their fun time.

2. A self serving college professor or department is perpetuating his or her bad decision to major in such a degree to begin with and can only make a living by teaching the subject.

So, I really don't think the issue of PhD's who work as waiters and valets is an issue of the economy but an issue of responsibility for your choices.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dvduval View Post
I agree with you, but I blame the lobbyists, big money and the revolving door. There have been many attempts to pass regulation to regulate banks more, not treat corporations like they are people, limit lobbying activities and the list goes on. I believe there has been more resistance from the right on these items, so I too blame the government with these caveats.
What regulations would you put on banks regarding college loans?

Where would you regulate universities and their tuition rates?

It has been proposed that it is government interference with loans and grants that has driven up the price of tuition - taking it out of the free market equation - allowing universities to sit on huge endowments instead of using them for students.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...tCfT_blog.html

Some quotes from this article:

BADER: Yes, federal subsidies do drive up tuition. It’s Econ 101: basic economics dictates that conclusion. Cato Institute education expert Neal McCluskey links to 4 studies so concluding at this link. Andrew Gillen persuasively argues that subsidies drive up tuition in a study available at this link. Gillen’s study is discussed at this link. Government loan ceilings are higher for law students than for undergrads, and, surprise, surprise, law school tuition and student debt are much higher there. The more taxpayer-backed student loans available, the higher the tuition rises, and the more crippling students’ debt upon graduation. Even the liberal law professor Brian Tamanaha was driven to observe that “This financial insanity will not stop until significant changes are made to the federal student loan program.” As a story in the ABA Journal noted, “Law students . . . are treated generously as future professionals and able to borrow, with virtually no cap, significantly more money than undergrads. . . For several decades, most higher education loans were made by private lenders with the federal government providing guarantees against loss — and, in some cases, interest rate subsidies.” Now, students routinely graduate from law school with well over $100,000 in debt – an average of $165,000 at John Marshall in Chicago.

Bader went on to explain: “Sometimes, financial aid increases lead directly to tuition increases. The federal government imposed the 90-10 rule, which forced low-cost for-profit educational institutions to raise their tuition to comply with a new federal regulation requiring them to charge enough over federal financial aid so that at least 10 percent of education costs don’t come from financial aid. Corinthian College had diploma programs in health care and other fields that can be completed in a year or less. Until 2011, many of those programs had a total cost of about $15,000, which meant that federal grants and loans could cover nearly 100 percent of their cost. In response to the Education Department’s rule, the college raised tuition to comply with the 90/10 rule. The net result of the government’s rule, as Corinthian College notes, was to “create a perverse, no-win ‘Catch-22’ that could prevent low-income students from attending college,” by encouraging such colleges to raise tuition to outstrip rising financial aid by more than ten percent.

Not unlike with health care, if someone else is paying the bill (in part), you’re going to overspend. But more important, rather than searching for nonexistent illegal oil speculation, how about an investigation of tuition-gouging and a re-examination of guilty institutions’ tax-exempt status? If Harvard is sitting atop an endowment of $32 billion, why is it charging students more than $50,000 a year?
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by txshellie View Post
I really don't understand what you mean by this..... because if you are going to spend $100,000+ on an education, it seems that what you major in is an important issue.
Don't you understand? It is not their money. Mom and Dad are paying for the 6-9 year party where they get a worthless degree at some overpriced educational institute. Then they move back home and sponge off the parents because they can't find a job.
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Old 01-10-2013, 04:54 PM
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Don't you understand? It is not their money. Mom and Dad are paying for the 6-9 year party where they get a worthless degree at some overpriced educational institute. Then they move back home and sponge off the parents because they can't find a job.
Yup.

If my boys don't make it into an ivy league school on a free ride to study medicine, I'm sending them into apprenticeships.

I need a plumber and an electrician in the family.

Wait... I just found a gorgeous article. Skip medical school..... unless they LOVE medicine, my kids would be better off as plumbers.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/06...llionaire.html

Additionally, in the book, the Millionaire Next Door, it discusses how a plumber will live in a middle class neighborhood, drive a white van and won't more than likely have a trophy wife. <my comment about the trophy wife> The plumber will have few Joneses to keep up with and will more than likely have a greater net worth than many "highly educated" lawyers and accountants.

Some other professions common to the millionaire club:

Gin owners
Mobile Home Park Owners
Small business owners

Sorry for the rambling nature of this post .... I love this topic.

I really like the suggestion about starting a ROTH for your kids in the article above. I'd much rather do that than write big checks to a 4-year country club for children.

What cool stuff could you do in mid-life if your retirement was paid for?
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Last edited by txshellie; 01-10-2013 at 04:55 PM. Reason: wrote the word lawyer instead of electrician... heaven help me
 
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:12 PM
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I really don't understand what you mean by this..... because if you are going to spend $100,000+ on an education, it seems that what you major in is an important issue.
What I was trying to say is that people with PhD, Major, Degrees having hard time to find a job, perhaps they aren't in the right state or right part of country where these specialities are in demand. If they are loaded with student loans and do not have any money, they stuck in their situation.

Another thing I don't understand is the reason why universities teach students in dead end specialties, it looks fraud to me.
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Last edited by Franc Tireur; 01-10-2013 at 05:15 PM.
 
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