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Old 02-06-2013, 04:54 PM
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Should the Boy Scouts admit Gay Members?

I just saw on the local news that the decision was postponed until May 2013.

This thread is not intended to be a discussion of right or wrong concerning the lifestyle choices of Gays. It is not meant to be a religious discussion concerning lifestyle choices.

It is whether or not you think the Boy Scouts should allow Gay members and why you feel that way.

So what say you?
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:59 PM
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Are gay people accepted within society? Yes
Are gay priests now allowed to practice within certain faiths? Yes
Are gay doctors/police/soldiers accepted? Yes

But gay scouts, now thats's just taking it too far

On a more serious note, if gay people are accepted within society then this shouldn't even really be disputed, because if they are still deciding on it then it shows that society is still discriminating according to ones preference and I thought that had been put behind us (excuse the pun!)
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:27 PM
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Wouldn't most people hesitate at sending their teenage daughter on an overnight camping trip with a straight adult male in charge? (I don't think I'm unique in this regard. Perhaps I'm incorrect about that.)

If they would, why should they be expected to be comfortable sending their teenage son on the same trip with a gay adult male in charge?

<added>
G10 - Look at how well it worked out for Penn State to have Jerry Sandusky as an assistant football coach. (It will take many years, if not decades, to recover from that particular fiasco.)
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:42 PM
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What is important is the people are properly vetted by the adult leaders. More often you see people get molested when you have no idea they have something strange with their sexuality. If someone is open about it, it shows they are not trying to hide something. People like Jerry Sandusky or Catholic Priest were people that were trusted and married to a wife or the church, and we had every reason to trust them. I think it is those people that then make poeople think gay people are like them. They have clouded people's image of gay people.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?...a-b2f33ea46f89

Boy Scouts delay decision on policy excluding gays

IRVING, Texas (AP) — Caught in an ideological crossfire, the Boy Scouts of America is putting off a decision on whether to ease its policy of excluding gays. Whatever the organization eventually does, it's likely to anger major constituencies and worsen schisms within Scouting.

The delay, which the Scouts attributed to "the complexity of this issue," was announced Wednesday after closed-door deliberations by the BSA's national executive board. Under consideration was a proposal to ease the longstanding ban on gays by allowing sponsors of local troops to decide for themselves on the membership of gay Scouts and adult leaders.

... by allowing sponsors of local troops to decide for themselves


rather than delay they might have done better to let a local decision go forward than to now have the issue become inclusive of the entire organization as it should properly be resolved.

if it can be made to work in the military the Boy Scouts should take note as they seemed to have done prior to presently delaying their final decision.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:07 PM
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I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed because they can do everything that is done by straight people. I think the problem for this is being that some people have not yet accepted gays in their sociaty but that attitude has to change , there shouldn't be discussion on what a gay should do or not
 
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barr View Post
Wouldn't most people hesitate at sending their teenage daughter on an overnight camping trip with a straight adult male in charge? (I don't think I'm unique in this regard. Perhaps I'm incorrect about that.)

If they would, why should they be expected to be comfortable sending their teenage son on the same trip with a gay adult male in charge?

<added>
G10 - Look at how well it worked out for Penn State to have Jerry Sandusky as an assistant football coach. (It will take many years, if not decades, to recover from that particular fiasco.)
So you're saying that just because someone in charge of young boys has an attraction to adult men that they're going to stand more of a chance to become a child molester. That makes so little sense that it's unbelievable. It takes a special kind of innate wrong-ness in someones head and psyche to like children in that respect, and that historically hasn't mattered whether you're gay or straight. Just that you're sick in the head.
 
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barr View Post
Wouldn't most people hesitate at sending their teenage daughter on an overnight camping trip with a straight adult male in charge? (I don't think I'm unique in this regard. Perhaps I'm incorrect about that.)

If they would, why should they be expected to be comfortable sending their teenage son on the same trip with a gay adult male in charge?

<added>
G10 - Look at how well it worked out for Penn State to have Jerry Sandusky as an assistant football coach. (It will take many years, if not decades, to recover from that particular fiasco.)
Bob, you and I shared the same outlook on this issue. This very topic was on the Carol Burnett show two or three nights ago. I was completely outraged that the talkshow host did not bring up that regard. Rather, she criticized the church (or should I say a church that is involved).

A homosexual male has a sexual appetite that is focused on men. Just as a heterosexual male has a sexual appetite focused on women. I see the exact same problems. The similarities or appeal for that appetite are too close. There is no way in the world I would allow my daughter to camp in the woods with a male Scout leader. in the same regards, I would never allow my boy to camp in the woods with the homosexual Scout leader.

I think the Boy Scouts for some deep water right now. Society has been embracing equality and I think a lot of people do not see this view. I suspect the number of participants in the Boy Scouts would greatly decline, if this should pass.

I am glad to see I am not the only person that shares this view. It is refreshing to see there are others in the world to realize the potential risk.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:53 AM
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Doesn't matter if they do or not, they have always been their and always will be. Same with the Military. Right or wrong that's the truth of the matter.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:46 AM
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I had some quotes and facts with links and lost them to a forced update. Let me see if I can relocate them. At this time I will just point out that pedophilia is a completely different issue than ones' sexual orientation.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScriptMan View Post
I had some quotes and facts with links and lost them to a forced update. Let me see if I can relocate them. At this time I will just point out that pedophilia is a completely different issue than ones' sexual orientation.

I had a former teacher of mine admit to me that he was gay, and as such he was tempted attracted to boys.

I would be interested in seeing what data you have. When I was a 15 year old homeless kid in LA I was propositioned many times by gay men. Were they pedophiles? I doubt it. I think they were regular gay men who had a hard time understanding that they shouldn't be offering minors money to have sex.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:24 AM
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I see hot looking 16 year old girls every time I venture out of the house. Looking and doing are two entirely different things.

Your experiences can't be refuted by any data presented. They are yours and I'm sure they are not unique. I tend to agree that they were probably not pedophiles but they were preying on the the unfortunate. The same things happen to young girls on the street.

I will take the time to track down that data.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:42 AM
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I am not being critical of those who posted opposing viewpoints but I have never been one to judge people by the color of their skin or their sexual orientation. I was raised to judge all people by the content of their character. Thus when I say I know gay people I would trust my children with and some I would not leave my dog alone with you know the basis for my choices.

John has tossed a personal experience into this discussion that can not be refuted by any study. I am now going to do the same thing with a limited counterpoint. Not only would I trust my children with a gay person of moral character. I did so for a number of years every other weekend. My two oldest children spent every other weekend visiting with a gay couple. That's about all I intend to say on that subject.

I would suggest that John's experience is directly related to the character content of the individuals who would pay for sex on the street or try to pick up kids than it is to their sexual orientation.

The chances of anyone's opinion being changed in a thread like this is virtually zero but I would like to suggest that the world would be a lot better place if we all could judge people of any classification by the content of their character and not an assigned label.

Now I will deliver those quotes I promised earlier.

Quote:
Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as representing a danger to the majority's most vulnerable members. For example, Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices. Black men in the United States were often lynched after being falsely accused of raping White women.

In a similar fashion, gay people have often been portrayed as a threat to children.

<big snip suggest you read the entire article>

The number of Americans who believe the myth that gay people are child molesters has declined substantially. In a 1970 national survey, more than 70% of respondents agreed with the assertions that "Homosexuals are dangerous as teachers or youth leaders because
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbo...lestation.html
That % had dropped to 19% of heterosexual men and 10% of heterosexual believing that by 1999.

Quote:
According to the American Psychological Association, "homosexual men are not more likely to sexually abuse children than heterosexual men are." Gregory Herek, a professor at the University of California, Davis, who is one of the nation's leading researchers on prejudice against sexual minorities, reviewed a series of studies and found no evidence that gay men molest children at higher rates than heterosexual men
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...inter/10-myths
An interesting read: http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/Articles/000,002.htm


An opposing opinion that is ridicluled in the first quoted article above: http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS02E3


Yet another interesting read on the subject: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/0...e-s-the-proof#

http://individual.utoronto.ca/james_cantor/blog1.html



So my friends we are all going to believe what we want to believe. The best we can hope for is to make you think for just a little bit.

BTW: I haven't changed my opinion posted in another thread on this site that the BSA as private, non-government funded organization has the right to discriminate if they want to do so.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:12 PM
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This is a moot argument. Nobody could say that would or wouldn't happen. The point I'm making, and I think some of the others are too, is that there is less of a difference in their appetite for pleasure.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:17 PM
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This is a moot argument. Nobody could say that would or wouldn't happen. The point I'm making, and I think some of the others are too, is that there is less of a difference in their appetite for pleasure.
Help an old guy out here. You are going to need to expand on that a bit. I have absolutely no clue what you were trying to say.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ScriptMan
I am now going to do the same thing with a limited counterpoint. Not only would I trust my children with a gay person of moral character. I did so for a number of years every other weekend. My two oldest children spent every other weekend visiting with a gay couple. That's about all I intend to say on that subject.

I can't imagine how that could serve as a counterpoint. I trust gay people all the time. My sister in law and her partner are 100% and my children love spending time with them, and I trust them with my children without reservation. Did I somehow contradict my own assertion to the effect that gay adults are often attracted to minors? No.

I like women. I often have sex with them, even when I shouldn't. The sex drive, as most people know, tends to be one of the stronger drives in humans. So, being intelligent to some degree or another, I do not put myself in positions where I would have to spend inordinate amounts of time with women who I am attracted to.

Now, I am very, very confident that a straight man isn't going to have sex with my son if I send him to a meeting. But I do not have the same confidence in regard to gay men. I know that people do not always do what they ought to do, and sex drives can be powerful and destructive forces, and people simply are not perfect. I'd rather not play chicken with sex drives.

I am not impugning the character of gay men any more than that of heterosexual men. I would not send my daughter to play with a heterosexual man in a private or semi-private setting, either. For the same reason I wouldn't send my son to play with gay men in private or semi private settings.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:06 PM
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"The Scouts are a great institution that are promoting young people and exposing them to, you know, opportunities and leadership that will serve people for the rest of their lives, and I think that nobody should be barred (from) that." (President Obama) http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9120F820130204
It is none of your business.

Quote:
Texas Gov. Rick Perry said emphatically Saturday that the Boy Scouts of America shouldn't soften its strict no-gays membership policy, and dismissed the idea of bending the organization to the whims of "popular culture." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_16...n-gay-members/
It is none of your business.

My thoughts on this topic come from a totally different perspective.

I believe they have the right to organize a group and choose how to run it. I think it is out of line for politicians to weigh in on what they (the Boy Scouts of America) choose to do or not do.
 
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Cricket View Post
It is none of your business.



It is none of your business.

My thoughts on this topic come from a totally different perspective.

I believe they have the right to organize a group and choose how to run it. I think it is out of line for politicians to weigh in on what they (the Boy Scouts of America) choose to do or not do.
Well stated. I think we can discuss what groups ought to do, but I don't think we have the right to force them to comply with our morality.
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