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Old 03-07-2013, 11:29 AM
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Thumbs down Violence Against Women Act

Please forgive my naive question, but I truly do not understand.

Why do we need a "Violence Against Women Act" rather than a "Violence Against People Act " or even an act at all? Isn't violence already illegal?
 
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:07 PM
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In my mind a CAP crime (crimes against persons) is the most despicable of all and all are the same. We need to enforce the laws we have and do so uniformly.

If they are busy discussing this emotional issue they won't have to deal with the budget.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:50 PM
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I'm confused, Are they saying that carrying out violence on women hasn't been illegal until now? (I must have missed the women victim's exemption in various laws.)
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:46 PM
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Who comes up with these law's? I'd like to smack this person in the face but I'd face jail time I suppose.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:03 PM
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Who comes up with these law's?
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:59 PM
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Been putin' bad folks in jail for many years for violence against persons....
made some violence against animals cases too....))
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Old 03-08-2013, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...nst-women-act/


President Obama signed expanded protections for domestic violence victims into law Thursday, renewing a measure credited with curbing attacks against women a year and a half after it lapsed amid partisan bickering.


It's always better to have it in writing even if redundant - what possibly could they have been bickering about, Violence Against Women Act ?
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breeze Wood View Post
It's always better to have it in writing even if redundant - what possibly could they have been bickering about, Violence Against Women Act ?
We used to have the quaint concept that all persons were equal before the law.

Where's the Violence Against Men Act? Even if redundant, what could have kept a VAMA from being passed. Who could bicker about that?

<added>
I just noticed this part of the story you quoted:
Quote:
President Obama signed expanded protections for domestic violence victims into law Thursday
Shouldn't that have said "female domestic violence victims"? Or do men just not count as domestic violence victims?
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:29 PM
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Aha, thanks dmvictoria, I needed that.

Maybe the act is in place to further punishment upon 'men' that think it's cool to hit women.
 
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barr View Post
We used to have the quaint concept that all persons were equal before the law.

Where's the Violence Against Men Act? Even if redundant, what could have kept a VAMA from being passed. Who could bicker about that?

<added>
I just noticed this part of the story you quoted:

Shouldn't that have said "female domestic violence victims"? Or do men just not count as domestic violence victims?
I don't get people like you Bob, I just don't. I mean here you are going on about equality and about how Women shouldn't be treated as victims or the poster childs of domestic violence and that it should be a wider law covering violence against men and women alike. What you and others in this thread apparently miss is the reality of the situation, more women get the crap beaten out of them at home than men. It's that black and white, it's that disgusting and that simple. It's not the governments fault for making these laws, it's the uneducated barbaric pigs that beat down on their girlfriends and wives instead of figuring out their differences and getting help.

Domestic violence is treated with a simple call to the cops either by the victim or neighbors, dispatch calls it in as either possible domestic violence or unknown trouble. Cops show up, and assess the situation. 99% of the time they end up charging the men involved with domestic assault EVEN WHEN the women don't want to press charges. Most women, are too affraid and ask for the charges to be dropped, they go out of their way and most end up going through victim services to get their husbands out of trouble, why? Usually out of fear, rarely out of love.

Bottom line is that Domestic Violence and violence against women in general is all about power and control, and men are more to blame and the government is just trying to put in laws that protect women against this sort of abuse.


Educate yourselves before you cry equality and wonder why new laws and acts get drafted and put into place or why women get treated as victims. Sometimes, they just are.

Code:
www . ncadv.org/files/DomesticViolenceFactSheet%28National%29.pdf
(someone edit my link, i need 20 posts or something before I can add them but copy paste it to see)
Quoting a couple facts from the above link:
Quote:
One in every four women will experience domestic violence in her lifetime
Quote:
85% of domestic violence victims are women
Quote:
Most cases of domestic violence are never reported to the police
Quote:
Almost one-third of female homicide victims that are reported in police records are killed by an intimate partner.


And you guys don't see the ****ing validity of having a Violence Against Women Act?? It's not about equality, when it comes to violence against women and domestic abuse, it comes to protecting the victims and in this case, the vast majority happen to be women, hence the violence against WOMEN act.


 
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:46 AM
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@Perky: While your desire to protect women is admirable, it does not negate the fact that a "Violence Against Women" act is sexist.
And your desire to protect women does nothing for the men who suffer violence.
I guess some folks here believe that all people are worthy of protection from violence under the law.
 
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
I guess some folks here believe that all people are worthy of protection from violence under the law.
That's because, all people are indeed worthy of protection from violence under the law. Not only are they worthy of it, they have a right to it. Nobody is arguing that 'men' are not deserving or in need of protection against violence, 25%-30% of domestic abuse cases are such where men are the victims.

What I'm saying is, a "Violence Against Women" is not sexist, mainly because nobody said men were intrinsically superior to women when it comes to domestic abuse and violence in general.

Both fall victim but you too are either missing the bigger picture or happy to trump along with the rest in routing for equality.

The bigger picture here is that the majority of the victims in domestic abuse cases and other instances happen to be women, hence the violence against women act.

The act shouldn't be taken as a way of stereotyping the social roles of women in our communities, nobody is labeling women as the only victims here, more so shining awareness to a serious issue where women are the undisputed majority being victimized generally/mainly by men. I'm not trying to argue that the 80% of victimized women somehow outweigh the importance of protecting the 20% of men that also fall victim to domestic abuse and general violence, I'm simply saying that by pushing the "Violence Against Women" act, solutions are being made, stricter laws enforced.

The Violence Against Women Act does NOT threaten victimized men or undermine the importance of protecting them, Zap, what it does though is focus on protecting the majority before aiming to resolve a wider spread problem. If we cry foul play and demand for equality every step of the way while law officials attempt to resolve problems, all we do is hinder their progress and limit them.

That's my view and while I respect yours, I think it's ridiculous that you would label this particular act as sexist.
 
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Old 03-09-2013, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket View Post
Why do we need a "Violence Against Women Act" rather than a "Violence Against People Act " or even an act at all? Isn't violence already illegal?
I felt like going back and answering Cricket's original question rather than just get caught up with other peoples point of views on the situation.

I'll break your question down into parts to help answer this even though I know your question was more of a rhetorical one aimed at starting a healthy discussion.

Cricket asks: Why do we need a "Violence Against Women Act" rather than a "Violence Against People Act" or even an act at all?

My personal opinion/answer: We need a Violence Against Women Act because the majority of domestic abuse victims, spousal abuse, and general violence spawned abuse victims happen to be, women. This act covers domestic violence, and other types of violence including sexual assault against women. What many haven't even mentioned is that this law doesn't also benefit female victims, but also their children. It's their to protect mothers and their children too. If anyone still feels that an Act like this isn't needed, then I have little to discuss with you beyond this point.

A Violence Against People Act? Technically speaking there is already one in place, it's the Crim of Violence law:
Quote:
The term “crime of violence” means—
(a) an offense that has as an element the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or property of another, or
(b) any other offense that is a felony and that, by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.
- source: cornell.edu
So yeah, that's why we need the Act.



Cricket asks: Isn't Violence already illegal?

My personal opinion/answer: Violence is definitely relevant to the victim of the violence and it is both legal and illegal, depending on the circumstance and why/when it is used. But you use the term 'violence' in a very general, broad manner. Let me give you an example of the term violence, as is generally meant in this Act, and define it, and then ask you if you think it's illegal in that instance:

A wife and husband are at home, eating dinner. The husband had a couple extra drinks that evening and the woman head to the kitchen only to get a text on her phone. The husband notices and asks her what she's doing, she brushes it off and refuses to answer due to the husbands questioning/suspicious tone, feeling annoyed he even asked. The husband gets off his ass and heads into the kitchen.

Fast forward a few minutes and things have escalated to an argument.

Fast forward again a few minutes and the husband is attempting to grab the phone out of his wife's hand, forcefully pushing her and such. He ends up slapping her, and she fights back to protect herself.

Pause.

She hit him.
Quote:
vi·o·lence
/ˈvī(ə)ləns/
Noun
  • Behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something.
  • Strength of emotion or an unpleasant or destructive natural force.
Is violence illegal in this instance? Is it not the woman's right to defend herself?


Lets turn the rolls a little to better help you understand why this act was put in place, or at least why I feel it was.

If the woman got feisty because her husband was texting someone, she demanded to see his phone but he wouldn't let her and she attempted to get the phone and then out of anger and emotional distress, she slapped her husband. Is he within his right to sock her in the face with a closed fist?

Huh? What was that? Hey, Zap, Bob, equality preachers, is it ok? I'm not taking anything out of context here, just defining the very fundamental difference between violence against men and that against women, and why the Violence Against Women act is not only NOT sexist, but a great start.

Maybe, and I'm not arrogant enough to ignore the fact that I may have personal reasons to perhaps seem a little biased, but common sense and logic as well as factual evidence all support my opinion. The Violence Against Women Act is not sexist, it is indeed needed and harsher punishments need to be dealt out to those committing these crimes.

Next time my younger teenage cousin socks me in the ribs when she throws a tantrum I should just slap her upside the face and be like, yo, equality people. She punched me, I only slapped her. There's a violence against men act just as there is a violence against women act. Viva la equality! Give me a break.
 
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:55 PM
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I have tried to respond to this thread 3 times before this, all of which I deleted because I kept finding myself in violation of our guidelines for discussions here in the controversial sect of the community.

I am going to try again now....

Some of the beliefs mentioned in this thread are part of the reason domestic violence against men continues to be hidden and rarely addressed publicly.

[YT]m7d_ybOzflA[/YT]

Quote:
According to the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, more than five million men and nearly five million women experience some type of violence at the hands of their partners every year (2).
http://www.saveservices.org/2013/01/...stic-violence/

Quote:
But what happens when the male is the victim of domestic violence? While there are hundreds of human service programs to aid female victims, most male victims of domestic violence are shown no compassion, and are, quite frankly, forgotten. What’s worse: many people aren’t even aware such brutality exists. And yet, of the 400,000 annually-reported incidents of domestic violence, about 40 percent include male victims of domestic violence, abused either by their male partners, their wives or their girlfriends. http://www.regalmag.com/male-victims...nce-a-354.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perky View Post
Next time my younger teenage cousin socks me in the ribs when she throws a tantrum I should just slap her upside the face and be like, yo, equality people. She punched me, I only slapped her. There's a violence against men act just as there is a violence against women act. Viva la equality! Give me a break.
Here is a crazy thought - why not take the higher ground and consider an alternative response to solve the issue (other than violence) regardless of the gender of your cousin?
 
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:35 AM
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Higher road? Isn't that what the victimized men and women do? You do realize that the majority of the men involved in domestic violence don't fight back when the female is the offender right? That's why they get added to the polls and stat count lists of domestically abused men count.

I don't have a younger teenage cousin, it was a sarcastic example that you apparently took literally.


In your outdated video it shows:


Compared to stats from around the same time that video was shot:
Quote:
Each year, intimate partner violence (IPV) results in an estimated 1,200 deaths and 2 million injuries among women - source THL

So a 100,000 women are prone to hitting their partners without valid reason such as being provoked or in self defense as apposed to the MILLIONS of men that beat on their female partners for the same reasons. But you're saying lets not tackle the bigger problem, lets hinder progress and route for equality. That, makes no sense to me.

If you, as a female, feel compassion towards the men that are victims of violence at the hands of women, then good for you. I can't fault you for caring. It's not that I don't sympathize with them too, as I said before, nobody is trying to belittle their situation. But to say that a Violence Against Women Act is not needed is in my opinion selfish.

Cricket, you do realize that the Violence Against Women Act not JUST limited to domestic violence right? The Act protects women against domestic violence, rape and even sexual harassment. Everyone should be in favor and now is not the time to try and be politically correct by routing for equality. I think it's a great start and if you want to do more good then push for a VAMA like many are doing, just as women did for years to get theirs.

Violence is never the solution and I truly sympathize with all victims, but to question why law makers have put in place this act in my opinion comes from people who don't understand why it's really here. I'll state it again, the Act protects women against domestic violence, rape and even sexual harassment. If you still don't see the validity behind having it, we'll have to agree to disagree then
 
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Old 03-10-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perky View Post

So a 100,000 women are prone to hitting their partners without valid reason such as being provoked or in self defense as apposed to the MILLIONS of men that beat on their female partners for the same reasons.)
Millions of men beat women because their distorted religions give them permission. Let's eliminate the real cause of the problem.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ScriptMan View Post
Millions of men beat women because their distorted religions give them permission. Let's eliminate the real cause of the problem.

Just to clarify something for you ScriptMan, we're talking about US based stats here, not global. Having said that, I'm sure religion plays a minor part in this but that isn't the real reason behind spousal/domestic abuse, rape and sexual harassment and assault.
 
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:06 AM
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@Perky: If you're going to focus on violence against women, then it is sexist. If you doubt that, look up the definition of sexism. You don't get to change that definition just because you don't want to appear sexist. And it also doesn't mean that you get to say others don't see "the bigger picture" when they call sexism out for what it is.

And the sad reality is that a spiffy new "Violence Against Women Act" will likely be more about scoring political points than curbing violence towards women.
 
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:18 AM
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I didn't want to post in this thread, but I guess I feel the necessity to say something.

Like many, I found this sexist, because unfortunately and sadly violence exist in both sides, perhaps not in the form that most brainwashing mainstream media said to support political agenda or political gain to target female voters.

Let me introduce you to another form of violence which is almost never reported. The psychological violence against men, which in most cases are the first step before physical violence. You may not be aware of this form of violence but it is there, and frequently hidden.

I have experienced psychological violence from my ex wife for years and she used my daughter against me ( I am not going to give details of my private life) and believe me there are rarely something you can do about it. So to make my point, I am not a violent person and never hit any women just to let you know, I just forced myself to put this aside, it wasn't easy because I love my daughter.

Read this article, perhaps some can learn something.

Psychological Effects of Partner Abuse Against Men
http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/dom/hines01.htm
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:03 AM
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I can't but respect and admire everyone in this thread, especially Perky because he shows a lot of heart in his replies, fella is obviously a nice guy and caring. But while I might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, this VAWA is a political card, nothing more and not much less, if you think otherwise you're being played. Don't feel bad though, millions are eating up just as you are

@Zap I don't think Perky is sexist because he's not being prejudice or discriminating, he's concerned and cares for the welfare of children and women is how I see it from his posts mate. That's just my opinion though and yeah I'm a right plonker and googled sexism just so I don't look stupid in my reply, crap, too late for that I guess
 
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