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Old 04-15-2013, 10:31 AM
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Gold, Silver Slump Further Into the Abyss.

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Precious metals are taking it on the chin yet again Monday morning.

Gold futures are down more than 6%, earlier falling below $1400 an ounce for the first time since March 2011. Silver is down about 10% and is hovering around a two-and-a-half-year low. The sharp move lower comes after gold officially entered a bear market on Friday, falling more than 20% from its record peak.

Weaker-than-expected GDP data in China, the world’s second-largest buyer of gold, have added to the precious metal’s woes. Gold tends to be bought as a store of wealth in China, and weaker growth there could hinder demand for the metal.

“There is no real culprit in the demise of gold other than massive liquidation amongst all of those who believed that concerted actions by central bankers around the world would stoke inflation,” says Andrew Wilkinson, chief economic strategist at Miller Tabak & Co. “The lack of evidence pointing to monetary price instability has left them wanting, yet worse still, searching desperately for a bigger fool to buy the same redundant argument.”

The slide in precious-metal prices accelerated to the downside last week amid concerns that U.S. stimulus may be cut short and news that Cyprus may sell a portion of its gold reserves to fund part of its bailout package spurred a massive selloff. A call by Goldman Sachs to short gold earlier that week also dented the metal’s appeal.

“The final straw came on Friday with the mere suggestion that the euro zone’s bailout candidates could help pay their own way by selling some of their own gold,” Wilkinson says.
http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2013...into-the-abyss

Oops, the precious metal crash, but what is the real cause?
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:36 AM
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Why Germany Wants Its Gold Back

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After spending more than 50 years in foreign hands, Germany's gold is finally going home.

In a recent watershed decision the Bundesbank, Germany's central bank, has decided at least half of its gold should be held in its own vaults.

Since the Bundesbank is the second-largest gold holder in the world, that's going to mean moving 54,000 bars of the shiny metal.

So why does Germany want its gold back, and why now?

Part of it has to do with pressure from a grassroots group led by a group of economists, business executives, and lawyers, along with the German Precious Metals Association, who have put together a "Repatriate our Gold!" campaign.

But that's only part of the story...

Official pressure began last October when the German Federal Court of Auditors requested an inspection of the gold Germany stores in foreign central banks.

That sparked something of a political controversy since these gold reserves have never been thoroughly inspected and audited.

What's more, the U.S. Federal Reserve had already refused to allow the Germans to verify their gold despite several attempts.

According to Der Spiegel:

"Finally, in 2007, "following numerous enquiries," Bundesbank staff members were allowed to see the facility, but they reportedly only made it to the anteroom of the German reserves.

In fact, auditors from the Bundesbank made a second visit in May 2011. This time one of the nine compartments was also opened, in which the German gold bars are densely stacked. A few were pulled out and weighed. But this part of the report has been blacked out – out of consideration for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

So why would the Federal Reserve deny the Bundesbank a full inspection and audit?

That question has been rich feed for the rumor mills ever since the news broke.

So let's have a closer look at the surrounding facts...

The Significance of the German Gold Repatriation
According to the plan, Germany's gold repatriation will take seven years to complete and by 2020, Germany will store 50% of its gold in Frankfurt. Several analysts consider that, since the gold will only be moving from one vault to another, this transfer will have no measurable market effect.

But I think it's a mistake to make that assumption. Instead, this news could have a significant psychological impact.

Here's why...

Others will follow Germany's lead. The Dutch are already making similar noises, asking for an audit and full transparency. The Netherlands also only has 10% of their gold reserves at home, with the rest in New York, Ottawa, and London. Now it's only a matter of time before others start to ask the same kinds of questions. In a recent tweet, Bill Gross said what many are probably already thinking: central banks just don't trust each other anymore.

Growing concerns about the euro. There are suggestions Germany wants its gold because it's worried its loans to less fiscally responsible sovereigns won't be repaid. But I believe Germany is preparing in case the Euro were to eventually dissolve, so it wants its gold to potentially back a new Deutsche Mark. Perhaps they, too, recognize gold's return to its role as money.

A list of unanswered questions. The first is obvious: Is the gold really there? If so, why would it take seven years for Germany to get its gold back? Would you take the risk of collecting it slowly, or would you want it much faster? Some say the gold's there, yet others disagree. Steve Scacalossi, vice president and director, global precious metals at TD Securities, says Germany's gold is allocated, and therefore can't be lent out, so it will not affect gold lease rates.

Meanwhile, Keith Barron, a geologist and consultant responsible for one of the largest gold discoveries in 25 years, recently told King World News:

"I believe that most of the Western world's gold, which is supposed to be in central bank vaults, has been leased out. Much of it is now in private hands in India, and what remains continues going East to China and other Asian vaults. So most of the Western gold has vanished from the vaults and it's now just a book entry. These various Western countries and bullion banks simply roll these leases over when they come due, and the gold never gets returned back to the countries. So it's very interesting to see what's going on. Obviously the trust is breaking down in the system."

While some could easily dismiss Germany's behavior as that of a distrustful state, there's precedent for Barron's claims.
http://lewrockwell.com/orig14/krauth-p1.1.1.html

I am wondering why the federal reserve bank refused to give back the German's gold. According to you, is there another reason?
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:45 AM
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There goes that mainstream media again, misinforming the public.

Key question: Who will indebted countries like Cyprus be selling their gold to? Is it in that buyer's interest to knock the price down before buying that gold? Do they have the ability to supress the price of gold?
 
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
There goes that mainstream media again, misinforming the public.

Key question: Who will indebted countries like Cyprus be selling their gold to? Is it in that buyer's interest to knock the price down before buying that gold? Do they have the ability to supress the price of gold?
That's obvious that central banks are engineering collapses to steal precious metal and other natural ressources. In the case of Cyprus, they are forcing sweet deals to multi national corporations for natural gaz (Cyprus is sitting on a natural gas gold mine: http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/21/news...gas/index.html)

When I read this from the article mentionned above: Goldman Sachs to short gold earlier that week" there is no doubt in my mind that the market is fully manipulated, and the intend is crashing precious metal to avoid a currency fiat money confidence crisis.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:34 AM
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Another explanation would be that gold is ending an extended bull market super cycle. It had to stop or slow down at some point. Part of what drove this cycle, especially the second half, was an irrational exuberance created by disinformation that had some believing there would be an end to paper currency or assignment of that currency to a gold standard. In this digital age it is near impossible there will be a currency based on any single commodity.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dvduval View Post
Another explanation would be that gold is ending an extended bull market super cycle. It had to stop or slow down at some point. Part of what drove this cycle, especially the second half, was an irrational exuberance created by disinformation that had some believing there would be an end to paper currency or assignment of that currency to a gold standard. In this digital age it is near impossible there will be a currency based on any single commodity.
There is no such thing as a market super cycle because it is created by the federal reserve bank and other central banks.

Currency not based on any single commodity is thieft.
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Last edited by Franc Tireur; 04-15-2013 at 01:23 PM.
 
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:22 PM
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This documentray is something to watch: Jekyll Island A Second Look at the Federal Reserve

[YT]bhMacPvc5qc[/YT]
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Old 04-15-2013, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvduval View Post
Another explanation would be that gold is ending an extended bull market super cycle. It had to stop or slow down at some point. Part of what drove this cycle, especially the second half, was an irrational exuberance created by disinformation that had some believing there would be an end to paper currency or assignment of that currency to a gold standard. In this digital age it is near impossible there will be a currency based on any single commodity.
Regardless of the propaganda announcements last week by the vampire squid and others, the reasons that gold started climbing in price haven't changed. Central banks around the world are still printing currency at alarming rates. Those same countries still have debt that is increasing and not being dealt with. The BRICS countries are still going ahead with their own reserve currency. Inflation is still an issue. Jobs are nowhere to be seen and economies haven't improved.
So, with the reasons for the bull market still in full effect, why would people think that some volatility would automatically mean that gold is done.
Let's check the prices again at the end of the year.
 
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
So, with the reasons for the bull market still in full effect, why would people think that some volatility would automatically mean that gold is done.
Let's check the prices again at the end of the year.
Looks like someone has invested a bit in gold

I was watching this freefall from side, perhaps there will be a stronger bounce, might even consider buying over the next few days (for trade). But gold has been growing steadily for the last 4 years, these type of dramatic movements might indicate a trend change. Oh well, there's always time to decide
 
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:43 AM
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Every time the price drops, people come out of the woodwork to declare the bull market in gold over.
This time is no different.

Have governments around the world improved their economic health? Have they rid themselves of debt? No.
Is the world at peace with no war in sight for the forseeable future? No.
Have central banks stopped printing their currencies? Have they even slowed down? No.
Has the global economy turned and we're now headed for good times? No.
 
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Every time the price drops, people come out of the woodwork to declare the bull market in gold over.
This time is no different.

Have governments around the world improved their economic health? Have they rid themselves of debt? No.
Is the world at peace with no war in sight for the forseeable future? No.
Have central banks stopped printing their currencies? Have they even slowed down? No.
Has the global economy turned and we're now headed for good times? No.
That's right Zap, IMO it is the central banks at "work", they are trying to destroy the gold investors confidences.

Look at this example, it is pretty crystal clear to me:
"Why? It depends on who you ask. Some say it's the slowing of the Chinese economy. Some say it's a slowdown in actual physical gold sales in the crucial India market. There is even a worry that European governments, from tiny Cyprus to far bigger Italy, might flood the market by selling off state-owned gold to raise funds."
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/16/bu...ice-investment
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:56 AM
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Crashing like the tulip bulbs did so many years ago.

When they start buying as many TV/cable spots as they have recently anyone with any experience would know the end was near.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:20 AM
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Crashing like the tulip bulbs did so many years ago.

When they start buying as many TV/cable spots as they have recently anyone with any experience would know the end was near.
When the federal reserve bank will stop buying bonds aka Quantitatives Easy, it will be game over, and this time deposit banks and business banks mergers will crash the whole thing. The risks are immensely high.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:08 AM
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Look at this example, it is pretty crystal clear to me:
"Why? It depends on who you ask. Some say it's the slowing of the Chinese economy. Some say it's a slowdown in actual physical gold sales in the crucial India market. There is even a worry that European governments, from tiny Cyprus to far bigger Italy, might flood the market by selling off state-owned gold to raise funds."
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/16/bu...ice-investment
The fear they are pumping is that Cyprus and Italy and other countries forced to sell their gold are going to flood the market with that gold and drive the price down.
But, it's the central banks that are going to get that gold. It's not going on the market at all.
This is a move by central banks to shake out the weak hands in gold and silver and drive the price down so that when these countries (Cyprus, Italy, etc.) are forced into selling their gold, the central banks can get as much gold as possible for the lowest price possible.

Now, I ask you... If gold is not money, then why do central banks hold it? And why would they accept it from Cyprus as payment for debt?
Why have central banks been buying it up? And why would they be telling us to get rid of it?
If you want the real story, you have to use your head and not listen to media stories of doom and gloom and the end of the bull market.
The price that has gone down is the PAPER PRICE (the price that banks can manipulate by short selling tons of PAPER gold and PAPER silver into the market that doesn't exist in the real physical world. It's just paper).
But, try and buy an ounce of PHYSICAL GOLD or PHYSICAL SILVER at the reported spot price right now. You can't.
Why? Because the price is too low. It's created shortages because of the manipulation in the PAPER market.

I know this looks like tulips, ScriptMan, but that is by design. Don't buy into it.
It was made to look that way on purpose by the bankers.
They want to shake as many people out of gold and silver and back into paper assets as possible. They'll get a lot of the nervous people too, unfortunately.
They can take your paper from you but they can't touch what you have in your hands.
None of the fundamental reasons for moving your wealth into gold and silver have changed recently.
We've just heard Goldman Sachs warning everyone away from gold last week because they're so good at looking after the best interests of everyone.
And we saw a central bank PAPER price trick to back up the Goldman Sachs assertion that the gold bull run is over.

Like I said...
Central banks are buying.
Central banks are still printing currency like crazy.
Peace is just a distant memory.
The economy is still in trouble.
And soverign debt is out of control everywhere.

These banks that are crying wolf right now are the same banks that have taken from the taxpayer to stay solvent and continue to play by their own rules.
 
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:53 AM
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Looks like someone has invested a bit in gold
...And just for the record, I don't have gold investments. Too rich for my blood.
My wedding band is gold. That's about it.
I couldn't afford gold at $300 an ounce. I certainly can't buy it at $1400! LOL!
 
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:06 AM
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Now, I ask you... If gold is not money, then why do central banks hold it? And why would they accept it from Cyprus as payment for debt?
Why have central banks been buying it up? And why would they be telling us to get rid of it?
If you want the real story, you have to use your head and not listen to media stories of doom and gloom and the end of the bull market.
The price that has gone down is the PAPER PRICE (the price that banks can manipulate by short selling tons of PAPER gold and PAPER silver into the market that doesn't exist in the real physical world. It's just paper).
But, try and buy an ounce of PHYSICAL GOLD or PHYSICAL SILVER at the reported spot price right now. You can't.
Why? Because the price is too low. It's created shortages because of the manipulation in the PAPER market.
Zap , you are preaching to a choir.

I have read tons of articles and watched a lots of documentaries about it.

MS Global and Mercantile Exchange of Chicago (CME) are two good examples about paper gold creation and all the disastrous consequences for the investors.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:10 AM
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I find it funny that Bernanke will tell you to your face that gold is not money, yet he has tons of it in his vault.
And he's making Germany wait 7 years to get their gold back from him.
 
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:30 AM
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I find it funny that Bernanke will tell you to your face that gold is not money, yet he has tons of it in his vault.
And he's making Germany wait 7 years to get their gold back from him.
Yes indeed

They don't even authorize an audit by the Germans who own the gold, it seems like they want to hide something lol
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:20 PM
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Gold crashed after some large entity sold placed a 400 ton (over $1B) sell order that swamped the market and, together with some help from a subsequent 100 ton sell order, triggered a cascade of stop loss selling (and HFT algo trading). CME margin hikes will ensure that the price stays put (relatively).

While the paper market price of gold and silver (ie. the futures/spot) crashed, real, physical gold and silver is flying off the shelves of retailers and wholesalers. The US Mint can't keep up with demand. Premiums are rising everywhere and shipping delays are the norm.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:09 AM
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While the paper market price of gold and silver (ie. the futures/spot) crashed, real, physical gold and silver is flying off the shelves of retailers and wholesalers. The US Mint can't keep up with demand. Premiums are rising everywhere and shipping delays are the norm.
There is a disconnect between the fake paper price of gold and silver and the real price to actually buy some physical metal.
That's because the bankers can't fool everyone.
Shortages of the real thing tell the story.
 
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