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Old 04-25-2013, 08:59 AM
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Merkel To Europe: "Prepare To Cede Sovereignty"

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The liquidity tsunami that started in September of 2012 in the Marriner Eccles building and continued with the BOJ's own epic QEasing expansion three weeks ago, has so far provided the impetus for Europe to kick the can of its inevitable dissolution for a few more months, yet slowly but surely the market is starting to read through the artificial levels implied by Italian and Spanish bonds, driven by recycled ECB funding via bank and repo conduits and of course Japanese carry cash, and rumblings of a return to crisis conditions are back.

And as always happens, once the crisis talk is back, so is discussion of a fiscal union. Sure enough, earlier today Germany's Angela Merkel once again reminded everyone just what the stakes are in order to achieve a truly stable, and sustainable European union: nothing short of ceding sovereignty to Germany. And with that we are back to square one, because that has always been the trade off - want a unified, fiscally and monetarily, Europe? You can get it: just bow down to Merkel.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Monday that euro zone members must be prepared to cede control over certain policy domains to European institutions if the bloc is truly to overcome its debt crisis and win back foreign investors.

Speaking at an event hosted by Deutsche Bank in Berlin alongside Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, Merkel also defended her approach to the crisis against critics who argue she has put too much emphasis on austerity, saying Europe must find a way to deliver both growth and solid finances.

The comments came two months before European leaders are due to gather in Brussels to discuss moving towards a so-called "fiscal union".
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...de-sovereignty

Cede sovereignty?
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:14 AM
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People have been warning about this result since the inception of the Euro. Bring on the banker shackles for the credit addicted.
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Old 04-26-2013, 06:39 AM
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Not sure if Germany will profit much from the fiscal union as they give the most money in EU budget anyway.
But Barosso is sure smiling today

 
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kju385 View Post
Not sure if Germany will profit much from the fiscal union as they give the most money in EU budget anyway.
But Barosso is sure smiling today
It is always the golden rule, who has the money rule the others. Germany and Italy are much more entrepreneurial than France, because they understand better the world market and competition.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:13 AM
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The English saw the danger of this chaotic Europe before anyone else, they are the true Europeen visionaries.

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:25 AM
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Another interesting article to read

Austerity debate rages in Europe

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It's been a bad week for Europe's budget hawks.
At issue are the spending cuts and tax increases that have formed the core of the eurozone's response to its credit crisis the past few years.

Criticism that such austerity is self-defeating has gotten louder as evidence mounts that the region's recession and unemployment crisis may be getting worse.

In turn, European policymakers have gone out of their way to acknowledge that there are limits to austerity -- that spending can be cut just so much.

But it's far too soon to write austerity's obituary. While Europe's leaders may tweak policy, they are unlikely to start unwinding their get-tough approach anytime soon.

Related: Debt's impact on growth

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, speaking in Brussels Monday, admitted that the EU's drive for sound finances had "reached its limits" but was "fundamentally right."

Tough fiscal policy, Barroso said, "is indispensable but it has to be complemented by a stronger emphasis on growth, including short term measures for growth." Leaders need to make that point "louder and clearer," he added.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/25/news...ity/index.html
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:26 AM
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Sorta sounds like the start of the 4th Reich to me.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:41 PM
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Sorta sounds like the start of the 4th Reich to me.
I was just thinking that the last time a German leader had countries ceding their sovereignty, it didn't end well.
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:52 AM
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Don't fall for press tricks. It's common politics practice, make pressure on an issue before it becomes an issue thus making space for later unavoidable giveaways in negotiation. If Germany really had the amount of power newspapers imply, EU budget would be quite different (smaller).

O.T. What is it with Nigel Farrage videos in every EU related topic? There are far more controversial anti-EU representatives out there...

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Old 04-27-2013, 08:36 AM
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So, you are for an authoritarian Germany that dominate Europe? That's a deja vu and regarding the history of your country, I am not surprise by your reaction about Europe leaded by Germany.
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:28 AM
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The Reemergence of German Dominance in Europe

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The European Union was supposed to change all that, but it is a hard-boiled geopolitical maxim that nationalism trumps transnationalism whenever national interest -- military, economic or energy -- is at stake. Unfortunately, for Europeans, it is a fact of life which Europe's leaders have consistently ignored, with historically disastrous consequences.

While romantics, mostly liberals, like to dream about universal love, human selflessness, and the benevolence of transnational governance, national big hitters just keep batting them back to earthy reality. While the EU may believe its $40-billion bailout offer will buy desperately needed breathing space, the greater battle to harmonize the "un-harmonizable" -- sixteen vastly differing Eurozone economies -- is the far bigger story. Of even greater import is Germany's growing "fifth column" status in European politics, a direct corollary of its reemergence to political dominance in the new Europe.

A Greek Tragedy in 3-D: Debt, Deficit, Default

Though the political EU is made up of 27 member-states, only sixteen are signed up to Eurozone monetarization. But a Eurozone crisis has been brewing since Greece's economic free-fall from grace stemming from the general economic vulnerability of the southern states, those affectionately known as PIGS -- Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain (though Ireland too is normally included). While the spectre of economic debt, deficit, and default stalks all of these, the Greek economy is, at least for now, the weakest. It may appear exaggerated on the surface. After all, the Greek economy accounts for 2.6% percent of the Eurozone economy. But the interesting issue is that the Greek situation, if not resolved convincingly, will bring to the surface what many suspect and many others see clearly: a serious economic vulnerability in a Europe suffering from (just to name a few) enormous demographics problems, inability to grow economically, and suffocation by entitlements.

The immediate crisis was set in motion when Greece finally decided to admit that it had "misrepresented" (lied about) for years the extent of its debt and that it needed to borrow over 50 billion euros ($66.5 billion) to avoid bankruptcy before the end of 2010. But the root of the crisis is firmly bedded in the soil of Eurozone regulations for disparate economies -- a one-size-fits-all financial straitjacket. As a result, Greece's deficit is running at a rate four times higher than the Eurozone rules allow. The trouble is that Greek politicians were paralyzed into inaction.

There are the rioting Greek street mobs, but those are a tiny group of mindless anarchists. Many other demonstrators fail to see why they should pay for the incompetence of the nation's profligate politicians and dishonest bankers. Tax evasion was rampant. In a recent study by the current Greek government, it was found that fewer than 1,500 Greeks were reporting incomes larger than 100,000 Euros. Greece's deficit, having been recently revised up to nearly 13 percent of GDP, now threatens not only Greece defaulting on its loans, but the whole stability of the European Union project.

However, the debate is not just about the Greek economy and management; it goes to the heart of how the EU is run and what the whole experiment really means. Talk of a rule-changing Constitution and a new European Monetary Fund (an EU version of the International Monetary Fund) does not sit well with Europe's three major economies -- Germany, France, and Britain. In Britain, a new Constitution would be an impossible sell. Meanwhile, in Germany, an increasingly disillusioned electorate and political elite have simply had enough of picking up the tab for southern Europe's laggard economies.

By late March 2010, as the Greek financial crisis worsened, Germany, Europe's largest economy, had made it clear that while it would play the EU unity game, it would do so on its own terms, and that meant no EMF slush fund -- especially one with Germany as the largest contributor. By mid-April, as Greece's approach to the bond markets was palpably stalling, the new EU President, Herman Van Rompuy, felt impelled to steady jittery markets by reiterating the EU's pledge of a bailout for Greece. That meant one thing: the EU must go cap in hand to the IMF. The resulting agreement to offer Greece a $40-billion loan (it is not clear how much will actually come from the IMF) at around 5 percent interest is now on the table. While Greek ministers initially claimed that they would not need to pick it up, most investors believe they will have no choice. The investors were right. On April 25, Greek PM George Papandreou formally asked the IMF and EU to activate their joint bailout rescue package.

So for the moment, while the promise of bailout may forestall fears of an imminent Eurozone collapse, the crisis itself has thrown into stark relief a seismic change in the anatomy of EU "unity." While the European Central Bank -- the former German Central Bank -- is content to act as Europe's banker, that no longer means that it is content to act as its chief investor and financial guarantor. It's a fundamental change that overtly exposes the EU's political frailty on the global stage, particularly its ability to keep its own house in order. But, just as significantly, it reflects Germany's "fifth column" status in Europe, too, as it now regularly subverts EU policy in its national interest; indeed, something we applaud. When it comes to key national security -- energy and otherwise -- all EU states need to consider extracting themselves from the politicized machinations of a transnationalist governance that, like the U.N., operates on the basis of the lowest common denominator principle, that being often against national interest.

The Russo-German "Special Relationship"

We have written elsewhere (see next link below) about the growing Russo-German trade and energy ties that have progressively usurped EU policy. Germany's penchant for cutting unilateral oil and natural gas deals with Russia, for instance, runs entirely counter to the EU's critical policy to escape the grip of Russian energy dependency. Clearly, while Germany talks the talk of EU unity, in reality, it is inclined to walk the walk all the way to Moscow to secure a more realistic national energy future, one that is far more pragmatic than that offered by the EU's absurdly optimistic alternative energy strategy. Indeed, Germany's so-called "Green" Chancellor had no compunction in green-lighting Germany's new generation of 26 coal-fired power stations, carbon storage or no carbon storage.

Most iconic, however, is how the Russo-German "special relationship" has consistently attempted to sabotage EU moves aimed at ending dependence on Russian oil and gas through what we have termed "The Nabucco Conspiracy." The Nabucco pipeline, due to begin construction in 2011, is still without a viable supply of natural gas. Yet Nabucco continues to be cited by European ministers as the key to European diversification away from Russian energy dependence. With Nabucco's future still uncertain, Russia has proceeded apace with its plans for the Europe-bound Nord and Sud Stream pipelines, with German connivance.

On April 9, Russia's Gazprom began laying over 1,200 kilometers of the Nord Stream pipeline. At the launch were Vladimir Putin and Nord Stream's chairman and former German Chancellor, Gerhard Schröder. Herr Schröder has proved a redoubtable choice as chairman of Nord Stream, with his still powerful ties to Angela Merkel's administration, as well as a vital cog in Russia's "divide and conquer" energy strategy, when it comes to cutting energy deals with European states. These are states that inexplicably have an aversion to having their lights go out and heat turned off, and who have zero confidence in the EU's unrealistic energy policies.

More significant on the global stage is how increasing Russian energy dependency for European states is likely to prove a foreign policy game-changer, and one that does not augur well for future EU relations with the United States. It seems that though the EU ship of state(s) sails under an independent flag, the ship will continue to be Russia-fueled, with the German-dominated European Central Bank acting as rudder.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/...rman_domi.html


You may also read the story about the Nabucco conspiracy

Quote:
If you ever wanted to see how state self-interest will always, ultimately, trump 'federal' policy in the EU check out this Bourne-style political thriller over the Nabucco pipeline project. (Nabucco is a derivative of Nebuchandnezzar.)

Nabucco is supposed to be Europe's principle hope for divergence AWAY from dependency on Russian gas (and oil) dominance in Europe. While its supposed to be built in 2011 Germany, Europe's biggest economy, is doing everything in it spower to undermine the project and cut its own deals with Russia. Don't you just love EU politics?

Here is the feature published today under the title 'Germany: Europe's Fifth Column' (my debut publication at Transitions Online) and (a slightly different version) entitled 'The Nabucco Conspiracy' at Energy Tribune.
http://www.petercglover.com/wiresblo...onspiracy.html

Again, the English saw it before anyone, when other members play their own card on the back of other EU members.

I am not anti-European Union, but I am against a Federation Europeen Union style authoritarian.
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:23 PM
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So, you are for an authoritarian Germany that dominate Europe? That's a deja vu and regarding the history of your country, I am not surprise by your reaction about Europe leaded by Germany.
I never said that. I said just the opposite that in reality Germany does not have enough power to enforce all their desires, regardless what you, Nigel Farrage, or anybody said. And to top it all, you clearly want to create one sided topic on the failure of EU. News that reach USA are obviously very different from those in EU. For instance, why didn't you comment on recent Eurostat wealth data? Oh right, you don't know what I'm talking about.

As for my country remarks, if you were here I could actually sue you for these remarks. Implying ad hominem that I'm a supporter of fascism, nacism, or anything because some idiots did something 60 years is absurd. FYI:

Quote:
A fascist Croatian puppet state existed during World War II. After the war, Croatia became a founding member and a federal constituent of Second Yugoslavia, a socialist state. In June 1991, Croatia declared independence, which came into effect on 8 October of the same year. The Croatian War of Independence was fought successfully during the four years following the declaration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia

I actually had close friends and family that died in the war for independence.
This is totally below the belt, and as far I'm concerned EOD with you on any subject.
Gonna search for ignore list for the first time on this forum

Last edited by kju385; 04-27-2013 at 12:35 PM. Reason: link
 
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:39 PM
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I never said that. I said just the opposite that in reality Germany does not have enough power to enforce all their desires, regardless what you, Nigel Farrage, or anybody said. And to top it all, you clearly want to create one sided topic on the failure of EU. News that reach USA are obviously very different from those in EU. For instance, why didn't you comment on recent Eurostat wealth data? Oh right, you don't know what I'm talking about.
Ahahhaha now the Eurostat wealth data? LOL Made by who? Oh yes the European Commission aka the unelected authoritarian bureaucrats taking away the countries sovereignty from people. Really, it is hard to swallow that you are hunger for democratie, freedom and liberties.


Quote:
As for my country remarks, if you were here I could actually sue you for these remarks. Implying ad hominem that I'm a supporter of fascism, nacism, or anything because some idiots did something 60 years is absurd.
Well, I never said that you are supporting fascism, perhaps you have to read again what I wrote


Quote:
I actually had close friends and family that died in the war for independence.
This is totally below the belt, and as far I'm concerned EOD with you on any subject.
Gonna search for ignore list for the first time on this forum
That's your view, what you are debating is the opposite without any proof, you are just drinking the pro EU propaganda and ignoring facts going the other way around.

If you want to ignore me that's fine with me, here in USA we are a free country
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:43 PM
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:17 PM
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Croatia in the EU: A Disaster Waiting to Happen

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In the late 19th century, someone asked Bismarck what would cause the next great European war. “Some damn thing in the Balkans,” he presciently answered. Today, events in that region are no less consequential if we remember that Greece, now roiling global markets, is also a Balkan state.

Unfortunately, it might get much worse.

In 2013, another Balkan nation, Croatia, is scheduled to join the European Union. Unless that country cleans house before then, another hobbled economy will add its weight to the EU, exacerbating the problems that already exist. There will be more debt, more burden on EU taxpayers, more risk of loan defaults, and more downward pressure on U.S. markets inextricably linked to European markets.

Since 2003-2004, Croatia and the EU have been preparing for that nation’s membership, delayed in part by Slovenian concerns over border issues. As we get nearer to 2013, much attention has been given Croatia’s economic problems, including a warning from central bank Governor Zeljko Rohatinski that it must cut more waste to avoid an economic crash.

Yet one rising star of Croatian politics points to deeper systemic malignancies beyond such familiar concerns over the fiscal problems of a modern welfare state (including a 20% unemployment rate in Croatia). Natasha Srdoc, founder and chair of the Adriatic Institute for Public Policy (AI), is a compelling figure if only because she’s also directly addressing what is now a top-priority initiative for global regulators: anticorruption.

If the many reports are accurate, corruption in Croatia is ruthless and systemic in a way that altogether changes the dialogue from “how” Croatia should enter the EU, to “if” Croatia should enter the EU. As things purportedly stand now, Croatian membership in the EU would be another liability that we cannot afford to add to our ongoing exposure in Greece. EU membership could prove a disaster for the Croatian people as well.

“Croatia is an economy at risk and a burden on EU and U.S. taxpayers through its high debt and high borrowing as well as its persistently dysfunctional judicial system,” says Srdoc, who’s formed her own political party, Croatia 21st Century, with anticorruption at the center of its agenda along with tax reform, private property rights, and family values.

While businesses and officials may fret over the draconian enforcement of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and the threat of the same pursuant to the newly adopted UK Bribery Act, the Croatia 21st Century approach to corruption is well-nigh confiscatory. In addition to new laws mandating transparency, Srdoc wants to prosecute all politicians, past and present, who have amassed unexplained wealth. She’d seize misappropriated amounts that reportedly total multiple billions and use the money to help pay down Croatia’s debt. No wonder she’s been stigmatized as “an enemy of the state” by the ruling Croatian Democratic Union (HDZ) or that she and her family have been threatened.

Whatever their actual source, those threats are not likely idle. Among other deadly incidents, media publisher and regime critic Ivo Pukanic died in a 2008 car bomb explosion in Zagreb. Six men were convicted in what was vaguely depicted in the media as an organized crime hit.

“I do not think it would be a good idea to have a Croatian politician as an unelected EU Commissioner wielding tremendous power,” Srdoc quips. EU and U.S. taxpayers have already invested nearly 1 billion euros over the past decade in a reform process “without any results.” The prospect of loan defaults may put the IMF in a ticklish situation: let Croatia go bankrupt or continue to feed the ravenous maw of its leaders. (The socialist SDP party already supports recourse to the IMF.)

The EU has promised an additional 4 billion euros to government institutions apparently mired in rampant corruption. So the vicious circle spirals on. The more we donate to sham reform, the more empowered the regime becomes even as European investors who’ve already sunk significant amounts into Croatian banks, telecoms, and real estate – and who knows how those deals were negotiated with local apparatchiks! – seek to protect their interests by lofting yet another albatross over EU skies.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardl...ing-to-happen/

I am not inventing things, that's facts.
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:37 PM
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:37 PM
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Ahahhaha now the Eurostat wealth data? LOL Made by who? Oh yes the European Commission aka the unelected authoritarian bureaucrats taking away the countries sovereignty from people. Really, it is hard to swallow that you are hunger for democratie, freedom and liberties.
So just to get things straight, when data doesn't suit your purpose it's all a lie...
But whatever you say is obviously true without debate...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
Well, I never said that you are supporting fascism, perhaps you have to read again what I wrote
No, you just implied my whole country is, so it's understandable. I might say rarely have I seen such a demonstration of ignorance. Not meaning you naturally, I'm speaking in general.

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Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
That's your view, what you are debating is the opposite without any proof, you are just drinking the pro EU propaganda and ignoring facts going the other way around.
Since you're imputing me with soo many things I haven't actually said, I think the correct medical term is projection.


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Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
If you want to ignore me that's fine with me, here in USA we are a free country
Your topics:
‘Monsanto Protection Act’: Chemical monopoly writes its own law
The Corruption of Capitalism in America
CORPORATE FASCISM: The Destruction of America's Middle Class
Senate oks Budget: Marathon Vote Calls On a $1T Tax Hike


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
I am not inventing things, that's facts.
And cream of the crop, digging out a two year old article... to prove a point you weren't even making. Yes, Croatia will bring EU down as it weighs 1% of total EU budget, hip hip hooray

With all of this in mind, pardon me for asking, but are you a politician?
 
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Old 04-27-2013, 02:41 PM
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Hey now, let's play nice. Don't make me wake up grumpy again.
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Let's remember not to make this personal. Discuss the issues of the debate, NOT each other.
Sorry people, you can delete my posts on this topic. Didn't mean to make your day harder
 
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:06 PM
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So just to get things straight, when data doesn't suit your purpose it's all a lie...
But whatever you say is obviously true without debate...
Well, I don't know how the Europeen commission can provide a clear picture, to make an opinion "right" you have to read the positive and the negative. You cannot take for fact a corrupted unelected body who decide for everyone. If you base your opinion from only one source, I cannot help

Quote:
No, you just implied my whole country is, so it's understandable. I might say rarely have I seen such a demonstration of ignorance. Not meaning you naturally, I'm speaking in general.
You cannot deny the history of your country, I understand your frustration but it is unfortunate.


Quote:
Since you're imputing me with soo many things I haven't actually said, I think the correct medical term is projection.
Now you are giving name because you are upset, be cool man, debate and stay on the topic.

Quote:
Your topics:
‘Monsanto Protection Act’: Chemical monopoly writes its own law
The Corruption of Capitalism in America
CORPORATE FASCISM: The Destruction of America's Middle Class
Senate oks Budget: Marathon Vote Calls On a $1T Tax Hike
So? What are you looking for? I don't see the relation with this subject


Quote:
And cream of the crop, digging out a two year old article... to prove a point you weren't even making. Yes, Croatia will bring EU down as it weighs 1% of total EU budget, hip hip hooray

With all of this in mind, pardon me for asking, but are you a politician?
What I was trying to show is your country motivation to solutionate his own debt. Because after all, why Crotia wants to be a member of EU when it is already a mess for the other members?

I am not a politician, but I am very concerned by the raise of our national income tax, the national debt and the raise of European income tax skyrocketing.

If I may, what is your own motivation to be in the Euro zone?
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
Well, I don't know how the Europeen commission can provide a clear picture, to make an opinion "right" you have to read the positive and the negative. You cannot take for fact a corrupted unelected body who decide for everyone. If you base your opinion from only one source, I cannot help
EU elections are held regularly. I.e. Nigel Farrage was chosen democratically to represent UK in EU parliament. And I don't really see how European commission has anything to do with statistical data. It would be similar to claim President Obama has influenced durable orders report, or GDP report coming from friday. If it was up to politicians, bad news wouldn't even get out. Hence, both societies are democratic enough to accept the good with the bad.

Here is the other side...

Quote:
In December 2006, the ECB established the HFSC network of survey specialists, statisticians, and economists from its own ranks, national central banks of the Eurozone, and statistical institutes. The acronym stood for Household Finance and Consumption Survey. It would collect “micro-level structural information” on household wealth.A massive bureaucratic undertaking. Surveys went out in 2010. Results are now ready.
The official report came out last week. In short, wealth isn't evenly distributed in any country (what a shock!). But the political bomb is that in average Italians, Spanish and especially Cyprus people are among the wealthiest in Europe. Average German household owns 195,000 Euro in assets. Spanish have around 300,000 Euro and Cypriot 671,000 Euro. Now keep in mind there is a great debt to be paid, and naturally, no one is eager to pick up the tab. All I said was, it's understandable why they are protesting. Nothing more, nothing less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
You cannot deny the history of your country, I understand your frustration but it is unfortunate.
I'm not denying it. But taking one item out of context and imputing it to someone else isn't only rude, it's also against the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
Now you are giving name because you are upset, be cool man, debate and stay on the topic.
I didn't say a thing about you, don't really understand this comment. If you refrain from ad hominem arguments, so will I.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
So? What are you looking for? I don't see the relation with this subject
Well, seems to me your freedom is greatly influenced by certain lobbies which were formed in an undemocratic fashion. According to your own articles and topics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
What I was trying to show is your country motivation to solutionate his own debt. Because after all, why Crotia wants to be a member of EU when it is already a mess for the other members?

I am not a politician, but I am very concerned by the raise of our national income tax, the national debt and the raise of European income tax skyrocketing.

If I may, what is your own motivation to be in the Euro zone?
From your perspective it will never make sense. Border restrictions (joint market - most of Croatian trade is connected to eurozone area) will enable me to do business far more easily and far less costly then now. I'll be able to compete for strong job positions that aren't available in my country. And the competition will drop the general level of prices. Good enough for me.

Last edited by kju385; 04-27-2013 at 03:56 PM.
 
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