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Old 04-29-2013, 07:48 PM
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So Much Government Fraud!

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/unem...id=msnhp&pos=5

Gee if the Government got the fraud under control we wouldn't be taxed to death and probably help pay down the deficit!! There is all kind of government fraud going on not just the unemployment. Medicare fraud. Food stamps to Mexico and I could go on. And they want to cut sherriff, fire, schools,..,,,,,,,,BS
 
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:18 PM
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That's nothing compared to the 2008, you have to watch the documentary: Inside Job

You can watch and buy it from Amazon or EBay.


[YT]BuyrBRUsu9A[/YT]

Quote:
'Inside Job' provides a comprehensive analysis of the global financial crisis of 2008, which at a cost over $20 trillion, caused millions of people to lose their jobs and homes in the worst recession since the Great Depression, and nearly resulted in a global financial collapse. Through exhaustive research and extensive interviews with key financial insiders, politicians, journalists, and academics, the film traces the rise of a rogue industry which has corrupted politics, regulation, and academia. It was made on location in the United States, Iceland, England, France, Singapore, and China.
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:13 AM
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Whether it is government fraud, corporates getting away with just about anything or even certain members of society doing whatever they wish at taxpayers expenses, it all boils down to one word (to me anyway) and that is "accountability".

Nowadays, it seems like people are no longer fully accountable for their actions. They can do wrong, be it greedy banks toppling a nations economy, right down to certain unemployed people having as many children as they want as they know that the taxpayer will pay for them.

Make people accountable for their actions, and if they knowingly do wrong, make sure that the punishment fits the crime and not a slap on the wrist, and then lets see how things change.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by G10 View Post
Whether it is government fraud, corporates getting away with just about anything or even certain members of society doing whatever they wish at taxpayers expenses, it all boils down to one word (to me anyway) and that is "accountability".

Nowadays, it seems like people are no longer fully accountable for their actions. They can do wrong, be it greedy banks toppling a nations economy, right down to certain unemployed people having as many children as they want as they know that the taxpayer will pay for them.

Make people accountable for their actions, and if they knowingly do wrong, make sure that the punishment fits the crime and not a slap on the wrist, and then lets see how things change.
In my opinion, I think it is worse than accountability, because if you see what they did, they rewarded the same people who are responsible for all of this.

Bail them out, save them from collapse which was engineered at the top level. So they saved the perpetrators, and they turned their back on the victims.

Today millions of people are still suffering from this, but they are not the top priority, what inhuman society we are living in...They must be psychopath or sociopath to act like that!
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:19 AM
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Slightly off-topic but I am running with it anyway

There was a program on in the UK where they brought 4 people from a certain rainforest tribe to England (obviously dressed them up like us and not in their tribal gear) and they let them experience a week in the modern "civilised" world with all our technology, so as to see if they liked it. It was a great program, the cameras followed them around for a week.

These people have little to nothing, just their hut, some food they hunt and the basic clothes they make.

You know what the most amazing part of it was?....

Some of them genuinely cried when they saw the extremely wealthy people and then they saw people begging for food on the streets. They asked the camera crew "why isn't anybody helping the poor and the disabled people. Why aren't the wealthy stopping and giving them food?"

They then said. "You people are not rich. You have lost the true meaning of what it means to be rich. Your civilisation has mistaken rich for greed. We want to go back to our home away from all of this".

It was the biggest eye opener, to see that these people saw themselves as much better of than us. It was truly amazing and put things into perspective.

Our governments and corporates strive to steal every dollar from the next man, whilst even the poorest cultures from rainforests look at us and feel sorry for us.

Comes to show just how detached we as a western civilisation have become.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:57 AM
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Comes to show just how detached we as a western civilisation have become.
That's very true, we are immoral and sick western civilisation.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:01 AM
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OK.
Do we really need to include the word "fraud" when referring to government?
It's kind of implied. Isn't it?
 
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Old 05-09-2013, 05:28 PM
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Yes, Zap - government and fraud have always walked hand in hand. That's why I want to see less of it

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Originally Posted by Brave7 View Post
That's very true, we are immoral and sick western civilisation.
While government and some corporations may not care about humanity, I think that saying all corporations don't care about the homeless and the west is immoral and sick across the board is not an apt generalization.

Many corporations contribute millions of dollars to charities, churches feed 1000's of people all over the country, individuals take meals to their elderly neighbors on city blocks from coast to coast.

They should have taken the aborigines to the missions and soup kitchens where homeless people can get a warm meal and many times a change of clothing, a shower and bed.

The reporters should have introduced them to non-profit agencies that give unemployed/homeless people a change of clothing and work to get them employment and housing.

Perhaps a discussion of the evils of alcohol and drug abuse and a messed up mental health system might have been in order as well.

Maybe generational governmental dependence might have been appropriate to think about.

That's not to say that frankly, I think a simpler life is nice. As long as there is food on the table, it's all good. In the West, we can get a bit wrapped up in our stuff.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by txshellie View Post
While government and some corporations may not care about humanity, I think that saying all corporations don't care about the homeless and the west is immoral and sick across the board is not an apt generalization.

Many corporations contribute millions of dollars to charities, churches feed 1000's of people all over the country.
Well it is always easy that corporations defraud people for about 20 trillions of dollars, and give back a few dozen millions to contribute to charities when people lost their home, their job, live in the streets, etc

Americans gave more than $298.42 billion

Corporate giving, which is tied to corporate profits, held steady in 2011 compared with 2010, totaling $14.55 billion

See now who contribute millions of dollars to charities, churches feed 1000's of people all over the country?


Ok let me give you a few numbers

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According to Giving USA, a report compiled annually by the American Association of Fundraising Counsel, figures on American philanthropy in 2011 showed that:

Americans gave more than $298.42 billion in 2011 to their favorite causes despite the economic conditions.

Total giving was up 4 percent from $286.91 in 2010. This slight increase is reflective of recovering economic confidence.

The greatest portion of charitable giving, $217.79 billion, was given by individuals or household donors.

Gifts from individuals represented 73 percent of all contributed dollars, similar to figures for 2010.

Charitable bequests, which are made by individuals, totaled $24.41 billion or 8 percent of total giving. Charitable bequests rose an estimated 12.2 percent. The sum of gifts by individuals and charitable bequests is $242.2 billion or 81 percent of total giving.

Foundations gave $41.67 billion, accounting for 14 percent of all philanthropy in the USA.
Individual, bequest and estimated family foundation giving combined were approximately $262.61 billion or 88 percent of total giving.

Corporate giving, which is tied to corporate profits, held steady in 2011 compared with 2010, totaling $14.55 billion (a 0.1 percent decline in current dollars). Corporate giving accounted for 5 percent of all charitable giving. (Corporations do invest additional advertising dollars in cause-related marketing as a business expense.)
Giving by foundations increased 1.8 percent to an estimated $41.67 billion in 2011. However adjusted for inflation, giving by foundations declined 1.3 percent in 2011.
http://www.nps.gov/partnerships/fund...statistics.htm
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:31 PM
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In most cases they are Multi National Corporations or MNCs. Their first allegiance is not to a country, but to the corporation. The government's role is to maintain a level playing field where small and big businesses alike can compete in the country's markets. Most often where fraud takes place is where lobbying or bribes are used to arrange special treatment for individuals that can buy it. In addition, MNCs invest heavily in swaying public opinion. They even pay militant groups in some countries.

Here are some examples:
- Cigarette companies in Indonesia are investing heavily in marketing to people of all ages and have successfully increased the smoking rate there over the last couple of decades.
- Walmart bribed government officials so they could build stores in Mexico
- Chiquita Banana paid paramilitary groups to scare and harass workers in Columbia so they could dominate the market there.
- Lobbying led to Enron convincing California that encouraging competition would be good for energy prices. Obviously, that was a big fail.
- We could talk about Shell in Nigeria
- There are the Diamond Mines owned by DeBeers in South Africa
- Tyco Scandal of 1992
- Worldcom
- Bernie Madoff

The list goes on and on. If anything we need a stronger government to protect citizens and small businesses from the sharks who orchestrate these frauds, and stop blaming the entity most able to prevent the fraud in the first place, the government.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:10 PM
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In most cases they are Multi National Corporations or MNCs. Their first allegiance is not to a country, but to the corporation.
You know, people always talk about democracy, republic are democracy, etc

That's just the wrong information because in most western countries you need to be extremely rich to be in power. Not extremely rich personally, but they have to be capable to raise astronomic amount of money. So how they can get this huge amount of money? It all depends how well connected they are with multi national corporations and other big national corporations to raise the money.

After that it is just arithmetic, more money they can spend to advertise a political leader, and better they can beat the oponent.

So we are not in the context of the best capable leaders, we are in the context of the best capable leaders to raise money from corporations.

We are leaving technically in a kind of democracy (which is better than other systems). I sincerely think we can do better. We can be more vigilant and more involved to what our representatives are doing for "us".

The real democracy was from the 5th century BCE in Greece when eligible citizens were picked randomly to take power and voted on everything. Basically a government based from the eligible citizens, not the elite, and powerful. This model of society ran for 200 years.

Perhaps today we lost the real sens of the word democracy, and when you take a look at what Aristotle defined, we can say that we are living in a Plutocracy.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:17 PM
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Corporations are in essence beyond the reach of the laws created by "democracy". They can avoid labor laws in the US and instead have clothes made in unsafe factories in Bangladesh, then turn around and sell to the very people they put out of work.

I don't like to think of corporations as "bad", but rather they are capable of terrible things if left unchecked. The government's job is protect its citizens from harmful practices. The people decide on who will govern, and while they may be tricked for a while, they always figure it out eventually.
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:46 PM
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The government's job is protect its citizens from harmful practices.
I guess all the western countries whatever their respective governments deregulated the protective natonal laws. Capital transferts are free to move out, corporation operations are free to move out, products made overseas are almost free to come in. Mergers are almost free to do whatever they want, cartels are much more powerful, central bankers controlling all the states, etc

The goal is a transatlantic (US, Mexico, Canada "NAFTA" and European Union)trade without borders.

I beleive their completly forgot the social factor and all the people going to be sacrificed. For example the young Greek are at 60% of unemployment, not sure where all of this is going to end other there...
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:26 AM
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In essence, Corporations and the super wealthy are creating a "New World Order" that is beyond our national laws in the US. For example, it might be illegal for them to do business with Iran, but they can just create a subsidiary in another country, and make sure the financial trail is difficult to track. Another example is big banks holding drug money and looking the other way with relative impunity. And of course it will often be a "contractor" that gets the clothes from the Bangladeshi factory.

Corporations are interesting to say the least, existing in a world where they can find the laws that best suit them. The problem is that their competitors do the same thing, so just blaming a corporation is a little short sighted. But maybe at some point people will have to decide if they want corporations to be the deciders or our world order, or if countries and people should work together to insure things like worker safety.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:48 AM
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In essence, Corporations and the super wealthy are creating a "New World Order" that is beyond our national laws in the US.
Actually I have no problem with unified countries or people, now if this NWO is a blueprint for an authoritarian supreme power that will divest people wealth to go to the top, in this case it will create huge problems.

Unfortunatly, when you take a look at the EU, people start to have a miserable life, and the intend to unified countries the way they do is far less democratic than people may think. The real consequences are untold and most of the time censured, but you don't need to look hard to find the information. I can tell you that it will end badly.

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For example, it might be illegal for them to do business with Iran, but they can just create a subsidiary in another country, and make sure the financial trail is difficult to track. Another example is big banks holding drug money and looking the other way with relative impunity. And of course it will often be a "contractor" that gets the clothes from the Bangladeshi factory.

Corporations are interesting to say the least, existing in a world where they can find the laws that best suit them. The problem is that their competitors do the same thing, so just blaming a corporation is a little short sighted. But maybe at some point people will have to decide if they want corporations to be the deciders or our world order, or if countries and people should work together to insure things like worker safety.
Ok, when I am talking about corporations, I always talk about national corporations and multi national corporations. Not corporations with less than 250 employes, because they don't have the same blueprint structure and motivation.

If you don't want to blame corporations when they act above the law or when they disregard their employes, that's your opinion, your view and perhaps your perspective.

Remember that multi national corporations in the financial industry created the global financial crisis of 2008, which at a cost over $20 trillion, caused millions of people to lose their jobs and homes in the worst recession since the Great Depression, and nearly resulted in a global financial collapse.

Corporations in industry close their eyes on human rights, like beating employes in factories, giving fines to workers, retaliation when they talk about their working conditions, force employes to sleep, and eat on the work place, 16 hours day work, no week end, no vacations, no freedom. All of this was documented by western journalists.

Again if you want to support this, good for you, but I don't.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:35 PM
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My point was there already is in existence a "new world order" in which corporations already work well beyond national laws. Obviously, we need to bring awareness about what they do wrong and it will temporarily fix some things. The 1100+ lives lost in Bangladesh just scratches the surface of worker rights and safety issues throughout the world. I'm not sure anything will change until there is enough political will to regulate their behavior. Left unregulated, competing corporations will seek profits by find countries like Bangladesh. Failing to do so in many cases can mean they will lose out to competitors. Boycott one and another one steps in.

We are still in the Wild West when it comes to corporations and laws governing their multinational behavior. I have little doubt there are systemic changes coming, but I can't predict now the nature of those changes.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:38 PM
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My point was there already is in existence a "new world order" in which corporations already work well beyond national laws. Obviously, we need to bring awareness about what they do wrong and it will temporarily fix some things. The 1100+ lives lost in Bangladesh just scratches the surface of worker rights and safety issues throughout the world. I'm not sure anything will change until there is enough political will to regulate their behavior. Left unregulated, competing corporations will seek profits by find countries like Bangladesh. Failing to do so in many cases can mean they will lose out to competitors. Boycott one and another one steps in.

We are still in the Wild West when it comes to corporations and laws governing their multinational behavior. I have little doubt there are systemic changes coming, but I can't predict now the nature of those changes.
The change will take time, before the local governements and workers start defending their labor rights, make laws better to protect their people and working conditions. They will take the same path we did in western industrialized countries.

The other thing that can change the behavior of these wild multi national corporations is taxing the imports, because if you think about it, they make a disloyal competition with small national corporations.

If nothing change and unemployment or low paying jobs raise, at some point will generate social unrest, or worse. If things are going bad, I believe everything will start in Europe.
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