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Old 05-08-2013, 12:14 PM
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Human takeover by machines may be closer than we think

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Are you prepared to meet your robot overlords?

The idea of superintelligent machines may sound like the plot of "The Terminator" or "The Matrix," but many experts say the idea isn't far-fetched. Some even think the singularity — the point at which artificial intelligence can match, and then overtake, human smarts — might happen in just 16 years.

But nearly every computer scientist will have a different prediction for when and how the singularity will happen.

Advertise | AdChoicesSome believe in a Utopian future, in which humans can transcend their physical limitations with the aid of machines. But others think humans will eventually relinquish most of their abilities and gradually become absorbed into artificial intelligence (AI)-based organisms, much like the energy-making machinery in our own cells.

Singularity near?
In his book "The Singularity is Near: When Humans Transcend Biology" (Viking, 2005), futurist Ray Kurzweil predicted that computers will be as smart as humans by 2029, and that by 2045, "computers will be billions of times more powerful than unaided human intelligence," Kurzweil wrote in an email to LiveScience.

"My estimates have not changed, but the consensus view of AI scientists has been changing to be much closer to my view," Kurzweil wrote.

Bill Hibbard, a computer scientist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, doesn't make quite as bold a prediction, but he's nevertheless confident AI will have human-level intelligence some time in the 21st century.

"Even if my most pessimistic guess is true, it means it's going to happen during the lifetime of people who are already born," Hibbard said.

But other AI researchers are skeptical.

"I don't see any sign that we're close to a singularity," said Ernest Davis, a computer scientist at New York University.

While AI can trounce the best chess or Jeopardy player and do other specialized tasks, it's still light-years behind the average 7-year-old in terms of common sense, vision, language and intuition about how the physical world works, Davis said.

For instance, because of that physical intuition, humans can watch a person overturn a cup of coffee and just know that the end result will be a puddle on the floor. A computer program, on the other hand, would have to do a laborious simulation and know the exact size of the cup, the height of the cup from the surface and various other parameters to understand the outcome, Davis said.
http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-than-we-think

I read a lot on this subject. Some authors are even talking about digitalizing thoughts, conscience and personality to transfert into a super humanoid that could get eternal life which can make possible to travel indefinitly in space.

Back to the subject, I guess the first step will be the combinaison of half human, half electronic. The nanotechnology is the new technology science race...

Here is another interesting article you may read:

Harvard creates cyborg flesh that’s half man, half machine

Quote:
Bioengineers at Harvard University have created the first examples of cyborg tissue: Neurons, heart cells, muscle, and blood vessels that are interwoven by nanowires and transistors.

These cyborg tissues are half living cells, half electronics. As far as the cells are concerned, they’re just normal cells that behave normally — but the electronic side actually acts as a sensor network, allowing a computer to interface directly with the cells. In the case of cyborg heart tissue, the researchers have already used the embedded nanowires to measure the contractions (heart rate) of the cells.

To create cyborg flesh, you start with a three-dimensional scaffold that encourages cells to grow around them. These scaffolds are generally made of collagen, which makes up the connective tissue in almost every animal. The Harvard engineers basically took normal collagen, and wove nanowires and transistors into the matrix to create nanoelectric scaffolds (nanoES). The neurons, heart cells, muscle, and blood vessels were then grown as normal, creating cyborg tissue with a built-in sensor network.

So far the Havard team has mostly grown rat tissues, but they have also succeeded in growing a 1.5-centimeter (0.6in) cyborg human blood vessel. They’ve also only used the nanoelectric scaffolds to read data from the cells — but according to lead researcher Charles Lieber, the next step is to find a way of talking to the individual cells, to “wire up tissue and communicate with it in the same way a biological system does.”
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...n-half-machine
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:39 PM
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:34 PM
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The Cylons are coming!
Be careful, the cybernetic civilization could be one day a reality
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:10 PM
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:33 PM
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"light years behind the average seven year old in terms of common sense"...

At the rate CS is disappearing, the singularity is upon us.
 
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:28 PM
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Some authors are even talking about digitalizing thoughts, conscience and personality to transfert into a super humanoid that could get eternal life which can make possible to travel indefinitly in space.
I don't buy that. I'm with John Searle on the topic of whether or not consciousness can be created in machines. What are your thoughts on the Chinese Room argument?
 
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:40 PM
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I don't buy that. I'm with John Searle on the topic of whether or not consciousness can be created in machines. What are your thoughts on the Chinese Room argument?
I am not an expert, but like I posted many authors are talking about that.

Quote:
One day we might be able to download our consciousness into a computer chip, preserving our personalities forever—but first we will have to better understand brain architecture.

Michio Kaku
http://bigthink.com/videos/can-we-download-our-brains

Enjoy
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:50 PM
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I didn't mean to suggest that I didn't believe people were talking about it. Ray Kurzweil won't shut up about it But I believe people like Kurzweil misunderstand consciousness. Even if all my memories are in a computer, memories don't make it me. And no matter how "intelligent" a computer is, intelligence doesn't make it conscious.
 
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:51 PM
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Another interesting article to read by Brain Rotman

Re-teching the Psyche
the coming into being of digital consciousness

Quote:
Two and a half thousand years ago, the Greeks encountered alphabetic writing and made it their own in a way that would change the world forever: their inventions using it -- drama, philosophy, mathematical reasoning, democracy -- became the celebrated armature of Western culture. Writing is a powwerful medium, a relentlessly invasive technology which limits, overturns and destroys in order to create. Certainly, at the beginning of its deployment, reporting on Socrates who spoke but didn't write, Plato couldn't forgive its limitations: by being detached from a speaker and masking its origin writing could (and did) fall into the wrong hands; by only repeating itself and never reacting or responding, it was inferior to speech; and by allowing people to write down and forget what they'd previously made an intimate part of themselves, it weakened the power of memory. In one move, writing destroyed millenia of accumulated tradition, putting a literate, abstract and anonymous culture in place of a face-to-face, oral one.

We know this about writing because Plato wrote it. Writing reminds us that it re-minds us. Such a reflexive effect is not confined to writing, it is the paradox of all media: they allow us to articulate the meaning of their absence. Without them, we cannot even formulate what was there, what we had before they arrived and changed it forever.

Now it is the turn of writing to be displaced. We are at a juncture when computer technology, a medium as awesomely powerful, transformative, delimiting and invasive as writing once was, is changing the world forever; we've reached a point when 'writingÓ, as the linguist Roy Harris put it, has 'dwindled to microchip proportionsÓ [The Origin of Writing: ]. We are living in momentous times: the inventions spawned by computing and the digital logic that goes with it are gobbling, at an accelerating pace, ever larger chunks of human culture and rendering obsolete practices that have lasted for hundreds and sometimes thousands of years. As the medium of writing displaced orality and changed forever how humans encounter, respond and imagine each other, so the medium of computing, just as totally and relentlessly, is displacing literacy.

Displacing not eliminating: obviously writing will not disappear, any more than speech and orality disappeared. Writing eclipsed the oral mode, denying its role as the vehicle for cultural replication whilst at the same time transforming and re-routing speech into other functions. The medium of computation is repeating the move on writing, eclipsing the literate-textual mode as chief cognitive technology of our culture and re-routing and re-territorializing writing. This means that not only writing but speech also is being reconfigured, leading the scholar Walter Ong to predict the partial return of its old centrality in the form of the emergence within contemporary electronic culture of a 'secondary oralityÓ. Without doubt the fate of writing is a key site in any attempt to map the experiential shape of the present moment. According to Marshall McLuhan, new media use existing media as their content; and this certainly is true of the written text as it becomes one medium among many in a computer-mediated world. But this in itself says little about the overall fate of literacy, about the emergence of an illiterate or post-literate self that operates in such a world. According to the paradox of media, only the computer and its accompanying tools can tell us (in a way that has to transcend both speech and its inscriptions precisely through these tools) what it means for the era of writing to be coming to an end.

The computer's earliest manifestation (as machine rather than idea) was in the second world war as a symbol-crunching calculational engine for code-breaking in the UK and chain-reaction simulation for atomic bomb production in the US. In the period after the war, these functions devolved into a powerful set of ideas which joined those from cybernetics and informatics to make feasible the project of externalizing thought and intelligence encapsulated in the idea of an 'electronic brain' and, conversely, in projects to build computer models of human thought. From there this machinic vocabulary of cognition and the computer technologic driving it has broken over us in two huge waves. The first, circa 1970, which initiated our irreversible symbiosis with computers and coincided with the advent of postmodernism, was the time of the mainframe. It led to the construction of large-scale infrastructure systems and databases from airline reservations to social security. Like any tool th at reshapes its environment so as to potentiate its deployment, these systems crystallized the very connectivity and distributed effects they claimed to be servicing. This outering of data-processing intelligence allowed the modern corporation (origin circa 1900) to be re-organized into its postmodern, multinational form, and likewise transformed the market cognate with this corporation into its distributed global, financial-instruments version. The second wave, circa now, is in the process of impelling us into a digital era, in which what we are and are not as sentient beings will be forever altered. This contemporary computer re-teching of our psyches and the putting into place of a new, digital form of consciousness can be organized as four large-scale mutations or transformative upheavals in:

* vision The explosion of images: the semiotic shift from describing to visualizing scientific/conceptual knowledge. The creation of transoptic modes of 'seeing' via the interaction of digital technology and visual art and the emergence of the combined tv-pc machine.

* abstract thought The re-conceptualizing and practical implementation of computing technology from serial to parallel processing; the re-rendering of machinic/mathematical intelligence from an individual (imagined, naturally given, transcendental) to a collective (softwared, made, materially realized) project.

* selfhood The replacement of a unitary, indivisible, autonomous and mirror-reproducible I by a multi-beinged, parallel self -- post-literate, mobile, collaboratively interactive as an agent in its self-reproduction.

* transacting The putting into place of digital (electronic, incorporeal, distributed) money together with an all-encompassing global market and emergent re-entrant capitalism as the matrix for the working out and creation of all human futures.

I shall open up these mutations by considering a series of vectors that go from circa 1970-computing to the present moment. Taken together, these stories point to a large, still unfolding epochal movement; a technologically-created transmogrification taking place within Western (and eventually, it seems, world) culture. This transmutation, the coming into being and putting into operation of the digital era, looks to be as charged, momentous and transformative for us -- we people of the book -- as our coming was to the world's oral cultures three millenia ago.
http://www.stanford.edu/class/histor...he_Psyche.html
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperMegaUltron View Post
I didn't mean to suggest that I didn't believe people were talking about it. Ray Kurzweil won't shut up about it But I believe people like Kurzweil misunderstand consciousness. Even if all my memories are in a computer, memories don't make it me. And no matter how "intelligent" a computer is, intelligence doesn't make it conscious.
I believe that today we may think it is more science fiction or impossible to re-create an human being, tomorrow it will not appear like science fiction.

AI are rapidly evolving and more these powerful machines can learn itself and learn from us, and more we will be surprised. I don't think I will see it in my life, but the way technology is progressing, I have no doubt that these machines will be created in the future.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:11 PM
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In the 50s I read books about going to the moon......in 1969 I saw a man walk on the moon.....

In between a lot of folks chuckled at the books I read...

20 years ago I would not imagine that I would be posting something that anyone in the world can see....almost instantly..

Amazing when you think about it...)

The next twenty.....I may not see that..
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Old 05-14-2013, 06:41 AM
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Traveling to the moon wasn't logically impossible. Only the limitations of technology made traveling to the moon impossible. Today traveling to Mars seems impractical, but it isn't logically impossible. In my opinion, strong AI is a different story. I believe there is something inherent in the nature of computers that makes it logically impossible for them to attain consciousness. They can be programmed to appear conscious, but the appearance of consciousness does not create true consciousness. If you Google the Chinese Room Argument, I think you'll see what I mean.
 
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SuperMegaUltron View Post
Traveling to the moon wasn't logically impossible. Only the limitations of technology made traveling to the moon impossible. Today traveling to Mars seems impractical, but it isn't logically impossible. In my opinion, strong AI is a different story. I believe there is something inherent in the nature of computers that makes it logically impossible for them to attain consciousness. They can be programmed to appear conscious, but the appearance of consciousness does not create true consciousness. If you Google the Chinese Room Argument, I think you'll see what I mean.
I guess scientists are debating something they do not yet fully understand.

By 1991 computer scientist Pat Hayes had defined Cognitive Science as the ongoing research project of refuting Searle's argument.

The Chinese Room Argument

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/chinese-room/
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:15 AM
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It may be an ongoing project, but they haven't done it. As of now, no one has presented a successful refutation of the argument. I don't see how they could. In "Is the Brain a Digital Computer?" Searle wrote:
Quote:
The formal syntax of the program does not by itself guarantee the presence of mental contents. A computer, me for example, could run the steps in the program for some mental capacity, such as understanding Chinese, without understanding a word of Chinese. The argument rests on the simple logical truth that syntax is not the same as, nor is it by itself sufficient for, semantics.
It's not enough for a computer to perform human functions; the functions must mean something to the computer. But they don't (and I would argue that they never will), they only have meaning as understood by those who are conscious.
 
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:24 AM
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I don't know if you read the chapter 5. The Larger Philosophical Issues from the article I have posted http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/chinese-room/ . I guess they made good points, now every scientist have they own theory, taking side is a risk, because these theories are created with today technology knowledges which will certainely be differents tomorrow with new technology knowledges. Anyway that's how I see it

I think this resume pretty well what we are talking about:

Quote:
Searle's point is clearly true of the formal systems of logicians. When we move from formal systems to computational systems, the situation is more complex. As many of Searle's critics (e.g. Cole 1984, Dennett 1987, Boden 1988, and Chalmers 1996) have noted, a computer running a program is not the same as “syntax alone”. A computer is a causal system that changes state in accord with a program. The states are syntactically specified by programmers, but they are fundamentally states of a complex causal system embedded in the real world. This is quite different from the abstract formal systems that logicians study
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:08 PM
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It still seems to be all syntactical to me, just arranged in a more complex way and interacting with different variables. In the end, it's still not self directed.
 
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:38 AM
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Last night I was searching more information on this very passionating subject. There is a lot to read, and many great articles

A Bit of Theory: Consciousness as Integrated Information
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/h...ed-information

Do You Need a Quantum Computer to Achieve Machine Consciousness?
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/h...-consciousness

Here is a site with many interesting articles to read
http://www.questforconsciousness.com/

Here are many interesting articles to read
http://spectrum.ieee.org/static/singularity
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:35 PM
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Very cool. I'll check them out!
 
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:36 AM
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I don't know if you heard about this interview, but it seems interesting

[YT]Ik_3Q2kQbfQ[/YT]
 
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:00 AM
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Ray Kurzweil — Singularitarian Immortalist, Director of Engineering at Google, famous inventor, author of How to Create a Mind.

So google is working on transhumanity, what a dark future they are offering! Maybe they are watching too much science fiction like the Elysium movie!

[YT]f28LPwR8BdY[/YT]

Last edited by Franc Tireur; 06-20-2013 at 08:03 AM.
 
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