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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2013, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Barr View Post
By your twisting of that logic, why not have the government set the minimum wage at $50 or $100 per hour? If they can arbitrarily set an $8.50 or $12.50 wage, they can certainly go higher. Doing that would make people rich, except that they wouldn't have jobs. (Do you really believe that Walmart could offer $1 per hour and actually get any employees to work for them?)
Yes. There will be desperate people who might subject themselves to that if there are no alternatives.
What do you think motivates a person to work 2 full time jobs, just to survive and provide for their family?
They do it because they have to and because the law allows companies to pay less than what is needed to survive.
Is the answer to pick on big retailers like Walmart? Certainly not.
The minimum wage is there to try to keep folks from falling through the cracks of society and if you're going to employ a minimum at all, then it should keep pace with inflation at the very least.

Perhaps, instead of Walmart doing its usual trick of moving in and killing all the mom and pop businesses, the stores that were going to be occupied by Walmart can now be occupied by a few smaller mom and pop operations that wouldn't have dared enter Walmart's turf. Just because Walmart isn't moving in, it does not necessarily follow that the area residents are worse off.
 
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
The minimum wage is there to try to keep folks from falling through the cracks of society and if you're going to employ a minimum at all, then it should keep pace with inflation at the very least.
I think Zap resumed pretty well the whole thing, and I will add this: How the minimum wage can still be relevant for years and years when at the same time companies rise their prices and states and gov rise their taxes?

Henry Ford understood in 1903 that if manufacturers or other companies wanted to sell their products or their services widely, they needed to pay well their workers and their employees.

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Labor philosophy

The five-dollar workday
Time Magazine, January 14, 1935. Ford was a pioneer of "welfare capitalism", designed to improve the lot of his workers and especially to reduce the heavy turnover that had many departments hiring 300 men per year to fill 100 slots. Efficiency meant hiring and keeping the best workers.[20]

Ford astonished the world in 1914 by offering a $5 per day wage ($110 today), which more than doubled the rate of most of his workers.[21] A Cleveland, Ohio newspaper editorialized that the announcement "shot like a blinding rocket through the dark clouds of the present industrial depression."[22] The move proved extremely profitable; instead of constant turnover of employees, the best mechanics in Detroit flocked to Ford, bringing their human capital and expertise, raising productivity, and lowering training costs.[23][24] Ford announced his $5-per-day program on January 5, 1914, raising the minimum daily pay from $2.34 to $5 for qualifying workers. It also set a new, reduced workweek, although the details vary in different accounts. Ford and Crowther in 1922 described it as six 8-hour days, giving a 48-hour week,[25] while in 1926 they described it as five 8-hour days, giving a 40-hour week.[26] (Apparently the program started with Saturdays as workdays and sometime later it was changed to a day off.)

Detroit was already a high-wage city, but competitors were forced to raise wages or lose their best workers.[27] Ford's policy proved, however, that paying people more would enable Ford workers to afford the cars they were producing and be good for the economy. Ford explained the policy as profit-sharing rather than wages.[28] It may have been Couzens who convinced Ford to adopt the $5 day.[29]

The profit-sharing was offered to employees who had worked at the company for six months or more, and, importantly, conducted their lives in a manner of which Ford's "Social Department" approved. They frowned on heavy drinking, gambling, and what might today be called "deadbeat dads". The Social Department used 50 investigators, plus support staff, to maintain employee standards; a large percentage of workers were able to qualify for this "profit-sharing."

Ford's incursion into his employees' private lives was highly controversial, and he soon backed off from the most intrusive aspects. By the time he wrote his 1922 memoir, he spoke of the Social Department and of the private conditions for profit-sharing in the past tense, and admitted that "paternalism has no place in industry. Welfare work that consists in prying into employees' private concerns is out of date. Men need counsel and men need help, often special help; and all this ought to be rendered for decency's sake. But the broad workable plan of investment and participation will do more to solidify industry and strengthen organization than will any social work on the outside. Without changing the principle we have changed the method of payment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_F..._Motor_Company
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Last edited by Franc Tireur; 07-23-2013 at 06:01 PM.
 
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2013, 06:10 PM
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If you guys don't mind I would like to interject a bit of real world logic into this discussion. The problem is not what the equally applied minimum wage is. Or what companies prefer to pay.

The problem is a lack of jobs. For at least the last 10-15 years there is not a chain business including food service in this city that had paid as little as the Federally mandated minimum. At the depths of the dip they still paid more. Why? Because choices exist and to get a decent worker you have to pay more. The "evil coporations" will have to pay what it takes to hire people if options exist.

That is called the free enterprise system. The system has has served us well for 250 years or so.

Now how killing 1800 jobs in a city that needs them can help the local economy I don't know. It must be some real voodoo economics.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:24 PM
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The problem is a lack of jobs.
Ok first Script don't put the cart before the horse. The question is why is there a lack of job, and than you will see who destroy the jobs, and who and why they ship the jobs overseas.

At the same time why they also want to legalize the illegals workers...
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2013, 04:57 AM
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That is called the free enterprise system. The system has has served us well for 250 years or so.

Now how killing 1800 jobs in a city that needs them can help the local economy I don't know. It must be some real voodoo economics.
A free enterprise system would be great, but that's not what we have right now. Is it?
We have crony capitalism and fascism. Very different from free enterprise.
 
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