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Old 08-02-2013, 08:13 PM
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Thumbs down Death Penalty vs. Life In Prison Without Parole

In a civilized society, should the death penalty still be on the table for the worst crimes?

Why? Why not?

Has your opinion on this topic changed over the years?
 
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Old 08-03-2013, 04:47 AM
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This is a toughie as I am in two minds with this.

I am not actually for the death penalty on the whole, though that said, there are cases where some crimes just are so bad that it is hard to raise arguments against it.

Life without parole is good is the person doing life doesn't have access to things like cable tv, pool tables, nice meals etc, otherwise what is the use of such a sentence if this person (though in prison) is living a life better than a lot of homeless people that have never committed a crime?

Death penalty has an advantage as to it saves the taxpayers a lifetime worth of fundings to pay for the prisoners as lets face it, who wants to pay for a load of the worst criminals to spend the rest of their life in prison.

If the criminal that does life, is made to actually pay for his crimes by working hard, not getting cable tv or pool tables, not getting fancy meals, just the basics, then I am ok with this. But if they get all the fancy amenities and my taxes are funding this, then I am not ok with it.

I guess I lean towards life in prison, as long as it is not a holiday camp, like some inmates see it.
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Old 08-03-2013, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cricket View Post
In a civilized society, should the death penalty still be on the table for the worst crimes?
Why? Why not?
Has your opinion on this topic changed over the years?
Yes, my opinion changed throughout the years.

I used to think that death penalty was fair — you know, for child molesters, serial killers, 9Gag fans and other low, low people.

But I have changed my mind after realizing that those guys don't get killed until after 15 years or even more.

So I suggest just keeping them in prison, forcing them to work to cover their food and shelter expenses, and visit their cells once a month to beat the f**k out of them (kinda like the whipping each prisoner of the Chateau d'If received on his anniversary in "The Count of Monte Cristo" movie... but monthly).
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Old 08-03-2013, 07:21 AM
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My opinion on this has not changed.
I find it difficult to justify murder and it is murder, whether committed by an individual or the state.
And how does one logically murder people because they committed the crime of murdering people?

Self defense is one thing.
In the heat of the moment, if you need to kill to save yourself, then so be it.
But, after the person has been apprehended, then it isn't self defense anymore. It's murder.
 
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Old 08-03-2013, 08:46 PM
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I have had the unfortunate opportunity to deal with an untold list of victims...
More than I care to remember.....(And glad I can't)

I have had the opportunity to help many criminals on the trip to death row (couple of dozen +)....
I feel good about that......

The time wasted on numerous ridiculous appeals ,in Florida , needs to be cut way back....the money wasted is needless...
The taxpayer pays to prosecute and then pays for appeals...

Death row inmates live better than our homeless veterans....that in itself is a crime..
Our government should be ashamed....

I believe that the death penalty is a deterrent....

I have not changed my mind...and doubt I ever will...)
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:20 AM
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If life without parole was really that, I might feel different. Unfortunately it isn't.

While I admit to wavering a bit over the years usually watching the evening news or picking up the paper strengthens my resolve. The death penalty is needed in our society. To be a real deterrent it should be swifter.

There are some creatures walking the Earth that do not deserve the right to live among the rest of us. I do not presume to judge their soul. That is not my job. I accept the job of deciding whether or not they should be on their way to receive an early judgement.
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Gillum View Post
The time wasted on numerous ridiculous appeals ,in Florida , needs to be cut way back....the money wasted is needless...
The taxpayer pays to prosecute and then pays for appeals...

Death row inmates live better than our homeless veterans....that in itself is a crime..
Our government should be ashamed....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScriptMan View Post
If life without parole was really that, I might feel different. Unfortunately it isn't.
Whether we can agree on the morality of the death penalty or not, I think most can agree that these things need to be changed.

Life in prison should be exactly that.
Prison should be no easier than life for the worst off of the free citizenry.
Appeals should not be endless, often on the slightest of technicalities.
Sentences should take the victim and society into account, and no one else.

The other side of this coin is that accused should have access to the best defense possible during trial. Let's be sure they belong in prison before sending them there.
Their sentence should emphasize rehabilitation if at all possible, rather than punishment. Let's see if we can stop them from committing more crimes against the people and the state, rather than feed their need for retribution against the system when they get out of prison.
 
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Old 08-04-2013, 07:44 AM
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I find it difficult to justify murder and it is murder, whether committed by an individual or the state.
Typically people draw a distinction between killing and murder. Killing being taking life, murder being unjustified taking of life. So by defining it as murder, you've skipped the argument and arrived at the conclusion.

But whatever.

I think a lot of people deserve to die, but I don't believe I or anybody else (including the gov't) has the right to give people what they deserve. And there's a Latin phrase that I should quote here, but I can't recall it. The essence of which is, be careful wishing for justice, it might kill us all. (Paraphrasing.)
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
Typically people draw a distinction between killing and murder. Killing being taking life, murder being unjustified taking of life. So by defining it as murder, you've skipped the argument and arrived at the conclusion.

But whatever.
The only difference is in whether or not the action was lawful.
Everything Hitler did was lawful but it would be hard to justify killing all those people as something other than murder.
I haven't skipped the argument. I've just rejected it. There's a difference.
The premeditated ending of a life is murder in my books. I don't care whether or not the action was declared lawful by a psychopath beforehand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott View Post
I think a lot of people deserve to die, but I don't believe I or anybody else (including the gov't) has the right to give people what they deserve. And there's a Latin phrase that I should quote here, but I can't recall it. The essence of which is, be careful wishing for justice, it might kill us all. (Paraphrasing.)
Justice isn't necessarily going to mean the same thing to everybody. Wise words.
 
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:57 AM
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George Calin: Death Penalty

WARNING: Strong Language Used Not Safe For Work!
[YT]qDO6HV6xTmI[/YT]
WARNING: Strong Language Used Not Safe For Work!
 
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:00 AM
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Zap, years have passed, and I still don't think it's possible to actually communicate with you, so... cheers
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gexton View Post
If we live in a society where there is hanging it will make would be murderers & the violent criminal think twice.
Doubt it.

What you suggest a would-be murderer thinks after abducting some poor schoolgirl:
Quote:
Well, let's see: I have my gloves, my knife, my car keys, my shovel... I think I'm gonna stop at Dunkin' Donuts on my way back home... wait a second, donuts... donuts... OH MY GOD, POLICEMEN EAT THAT STUFF. THEY'LL CATCH ME IN DUNKIN' DONUTS AND I WON'T EVEN GET THE CHANCE TO TAKE A BITE! THEY'LL TAKE ME TO PRISON AND {after 25-90 years of being in the death row} THEY WILL BLOW MY BRAINS OFF!!! Better just take the poor girl to Dunkin' Donuts and buy her a snack to apologize.
What actually happens in his mind:
Quote:
Well, let's see: I have my gloves, my knife, my car keys... who the hell needs the car keys anyway? I'll just chop her into pieces and throw her in the bathub.
Source: I'm a freelance criminalist (in training).
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Old 08-04-2013, 02:40 PM
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Even up until a couple of years ago I was very firm in my belief that the death penalty was a just punishment for the most heinous crimes.

I am not certain when or why my belief began to change but I believe it is based on some common sense facts that caught me off guard and left me with many questions

As an example, it bugged the heck out of me that our taxes were used to house these criminal until the day that they died. I later learned that in reality we spend far more money executing a criminal than it would cost to keep him in prison with no chance of parole.

Do we as humans have the right to choose who lives and who dies?

I also began to wonder if death was really an easy way out for our worst offenders. Perhaps a more just punishment would be them spending every last day on this earth behind bars. On the flip side of that coin, I would have issue with providing these prisoners with a better lifestyle than our nations poor.

My final concern with abolishing the death penalty is what would happen to those cases that currently take a plea rather than facing the possibility of death. In recent events, Ariel Castro chose to take a plea agreement of life without the chance of parole rather than the high likelihood of a death sentence. He will never walk this earth as a free man again. Not only were the Ohio taxpayers save a huge amount of money for a death penalty trial, conviction and execution, his victims were saved the hell of having to go through a long trial. They no longer had to ever face him again unless they chose too.

If you can't already tell, I seem to be stuck on the fence.

As always, just my 2 cents...
 
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:13 PM
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Death penalty do not deter crime. This has already been proven in many countries. There is a small percentage of inmates wrongly sentenced to death penalty. The purpose of penalty for the commission of crime should not be retribution but reformation. Everybody deserved a second chance. A person who commits a crime should be reformed so that he or she will eventually be a productive member of society. For those who commit a grave and serious offenses, Life imprisonment without parole should be the better sentence than the death penalty.
 
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gracemary View Post
The purpose of penalty for the commission of crime should not be retribution but reformation. Everybody deserved a second chance. A person who commits a crime should be reformed so that he or she will eventually be a productive member of society. For those who commit a grave and serious offenses, Life imprisonment without parole should be the better sentence than the death penalty.
Respectfully I must disagree with you. Some people can not be reformed. Reformation is a psyco-babble myth from the last century. It was produced by the liberal generation that never did diddly squat.
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Old 08-04-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Death penalty do not deter crime.
Averroes noted over a thousand years ago that for the death penalty to be an effective deterrent, it must be applied consistently.

A spectacular example of the death penalty deterring crime would be Singapore, which has almost no drug smuggling because (oddly enough) people don't want to risk be hanged.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:48 PM
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Respectfully I must disagree with you. Some people can not be reformed. Reformation is a psyco-babble myth from the last century. It was produced by the liberal generation that never did diddly squat.
Having had the opportunity to speak/ interrogate/ interview many criminals....
they just think differently then most of us accept as normal for todays society...

Right and wrong does not seem to have any meaning for many....
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:26 PM
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I always thing of this quote when it comes to this subject.

Quote:
“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”
 
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:17 PM
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I am also on the fence wit this, but reading articles like this in The Guardian really doesn't help the cause and leans me more away from it.

How America's death penalty murders innocents
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:31 PM
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I am for the death penalty. I am also an eye for an eye kind of guy. I think we have too many really bad people in jail that do nothing but eat away our money. Give that money to a homeless vet, feed him, house him and help him get back on his feet and a productive member of society.
Why let some guy that killed 20 kids, hell, even 1 kid for that matter live a life in jail where you get your meals served to you, clean clothes, toothpaste, alcohol, tv and just about anything you want. That to me is not punishment enough.
I speak from experience as my cousin was killed by a guy with a knife, cut him up. He is serving life... He shouldn't get that luxury...
 
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