Webmaster Forum

Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Controversial Social Issues Discussions concerning controversial social issues. Topics include politics, religion, culture, social and economic issues, etc. Respect required at all times.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Share |
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2013, 11:03 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: 09-11-13
Location: Denver
Posts: 20
iTrader: 0 / 0%
More people die from peanut allergies than terrorism in the United States. In theory, you could attribute this to our bloated defense budget against the terrorists. But people in Boston might have something to say about that.
 
Reply With Quote

Advertisement

Advertisement

  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2013, 02:03 PM
Contributing Member
Latest Blog:
None

 
Join Date: 09-28-08
Posts: 4,338
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Is the trade off of privacy and freedom for security worth it? Are we even able to make that trade?
Quote:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Something to consider from Mr. Franklin.
 
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2013, 12:58 PM
alexisnicholson's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: 09-26-13
Posts: 22
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Really good saying from MR. Benjamin Franklin
 
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2013, 05:18 AM
TechWizard's Avatar
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
As was mentioned earlier, one of the greatest weapons in the Terrorist's arsenal is fear. Fear toward the economy, fear of further attack, simply fear. Just as parents use fear of a spanking or a feeling of guilt to have their children behave so is the weapon of Terrorists. This same weapon is a weapon for those in Government that see Government as the answer to all things. Believe it or not, there are some in government that see themselves as public servants, they may on occasion become sedated with those powers and perks that positions of power induce, they to are only human but for the most part they serve in a way that they believe is right. Others on the other hand abuse their positions of power and attempt to control those beneath them and hold their power in any way they can while attempting at the same time to increase the power they have, even if that means assisting those that they oppose as their increases of power feeds their own. In response to the statements that our own government planned or assisted those that attacked us on 9/11...Is it possible that rogue agents or agencies prompted or assisted...nothing is impossible, however, as a whole the government did not have this intention. Could it have been prevented? That is a very difficult question as the only one that had the power to order that Civilian aircraft full of innocent civilians be shot out of the sky was the President, and though it may be difficult for us to do, put yourself in that position. How could you or anyone give an order to kill a thousand+ civilians? Had those planes been shot out of the sky prior to their hitting the towers would the public have accepted their intent? Or would they have demanded the impeachment, prosecution, and execution of the one that gave the order to kill all of those people minus the tragedy? Is our current and past governments using tactics to control the masses? Most definitely and until this last couple of decades most citizens were intelligent enough, and paid close enough attention to know such things and voted accordingly or so you would like to think, it does seem over the last couple of decades that the average person has become more and more of a droid than an actual thinking person when it comes to such things...I have much more to say about these things but in attempt not to write a book that will never be read I will stop here and post more as the discussion continues :-)
 
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2013, 05:37 AM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
Latest Blog:
None

 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,751
iTrader: 5 / 100%
If you examine the shenanigans surrounding the outright blocking of any meaningful investigation into 9/11 and you further recognize that only certain people in high positions had the power to force those decisions, then it becomes painfully obvious that people in significant positions of power within US government were involved in the cover up after the fact, at the very least, and probably in the actual attack itself.

This is just a single example of many. But steel beams removed from the towers crime scene were very quickly and quietly shipped to China to be melted down before anyone was allowed to properly investigate and examine them. Who has that kind of power, to order the destruction of evidence? Who would be so stupid?
If you were in charge of that crime scene, wouldn't you want those steel beams that failed, to be examined thoroughly for answers? Would you just let them go to China before getting a team of investigators on them?

A lot of people gained a lot of power over this and continue to this day to gain more power and it's us citizens that are losing our power to them.
We need answers.
 
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2013, 06:59 AM
TechWizard's Avatar
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
If you examine the shenanigans surrounding the outright blocking of any meaningful investigation into 9/11 and you further recognize that only certain people in high positions had the power to force those decisions, then it becomes painfully obvious that people in significant positions of power within US government were involved in the cover up after the fact, at the very least, and probably in the actual attack itself.

This is just a single example of many. But steel beams removed from the towers crime scene were very quickly and quietly shipped to China to be melted down before anyone was allowed to properly investigate and examine them. Who has that kind of power, to order the destruction of evidence? Who would be so stupid?
If you were in charge of that crime scene, wouldn't you want those steel beams that failed, to be examined thoroughly for answers? Would you just let them go to China before getting a team of investigators on them?

A lot of people gained a lot of power over this and continue to this day to gain more power and it's us citizens that are losing our power to them.
We need answers.
Quote:
As the joists on one or two of the most heavily burned floors gave way and the outer box columns began to bow outward, the floors above them also fell. The floor below (with its 1,300 t design capacity) could not support the roughly 45,000 t of ten floors (or more) above crashing down on these angle clips. This started the domino effect that caused the buildings to collapse within ten seconds, hitting bottom with an estimated speed of 200 km per hour. If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h.1 It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom...agar-0112.html
__________________
Get A PC Helper
Virus Malware Removal | Remote Computer Repair
And More...
www.pchelper123.com


 
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2013, 08:06 AM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
Latest Blog:
None

 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,751
iTrader: 5 / 100%
You're putting the horse before the cart, Dude.
You are providing someone else's explanation of how the buildings could have come down without the use of explosives.
Shoddy science at best, since (1) it presupposes explosives weren't used, (2) can not possibly be based on observation of the beams, since they were disposed of so quickly and (3) this pancake theory has been ruled out by several architechts and engineers.
Your point just reinforces my questions. Wouldn't it have been nice to have scientific data collected on those beams to refer to now?

But all of that is irrelevant to the questions I posed in my post.

I am referring to the INVESTIGATION of 9/11 and not the CAUSE(S).

My questions still stand.

Who has that kind of power, to order the destruction of evidence? Who would be so stupid?
If you were in charge of that crime scene, wouldn't you want those steel beams that failed, to be examined thoroughly for answers? Would you just let them go to China before getting a team of investigators on them?
 
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2013, 08:22 AM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
Latest Blog:
None

 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,751
iTrader: 5 / 100%
That would be like a cop, walking onto a murder scene and immediately ordering all bullet casings, fragments and/or guns found to be destroyed.
If a decent investigation is the end goal, then it makes no sense and reeks of guilt.
 
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2013, 08:40 AM
Contributing Member
Latest Blog:
None

 
Join Date: 09-14-13
Posts: 76
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward M. View Post
Not to sound smart or anything, but here in Europe we've taken these things as facts for quite a few years.

Yes, there might be some terrorist groups out there who can put people in danger, but you guys are deceived (by your gov, yes) into grossly overestimating their resources.
Lol no we don't I agree with you that we think they are overestimating. However I don't anyone who thinks that the government is faking it.
 
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2013, 08:04 PM
TechWizard's Avatar
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
You're putting the horse before the cart, Dude.
You are providing someone else's explanation of how the buildings could have come down without the use of explosives.
Shoddy science at best, since (1) it presupposes explosives weren't used, (2) can not possibly be based on observation of the beams, since they were disposed of so quickly and (3) this pancake theory has been ruled out by several architechts and engineers.
Your point just reinforces my questions. Wouldn't it have been nice to have scientific data collected on those beams to refer to now?

But all of that is irrelevant to the questions I posed in my post.

I am referring to the INVESTIGATION of 9/11 and not the CAUSE(S).

My questions still stand.

Who has that kind of power, to order the destruction of evidence? Who would be so stupid?
If you were in charge of that crime scene, wouldn't you want those steel beams that failed, to be examined thoroughly for answers? Would you just let them go to China before getting a team of investigators on them?
Where did you get the info about the specific suspect beams being sent to China? In all the mess that was there, how would you even begin to know which they were to begin with? After such a tragedy which is better? A long drawn out investigation leaving the rubble and bodies that could still be considered bodies still in place, or a rapid clean up since everyone on earth witnessed what happened (3 huge passenger jets flying into the building). The main goal if not mistaken was to overcome and stand up proud and come together to show we had not been beaten as a people or a country. So which at that time served the purpose to promote the moving forward and not letting the terrorists achieve their real goal? It can just as easily be argued that the conspiracy theorists are unjust in anything they have formulated, it too is nothing more than sheer speculation and based on nothing more than assumptions biased in the direction they want it to be.
__________________
Get A PC Helper
Virus Malware Removal | Remote Computer Repair
And More...
www.pchelper123.com


 
Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2013, 08:09 PM
TechWizard's Avatar
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
That would be like a cop, walking onto a murder scene and immediately ordering all bullet casings, fragments and/or guns found to be destroyed.
If a decent investigation is the end goal, then it makes no sense and reeks of guilt.
Your premise is absurd at best. A murder scene walked up on by cops versus a devastating blow to an entire country risking the fall of an entire world economy if left unchecked and allowed to fester into the massive blow that was really meant by the terrorists who planned it. The deaths were candy. The real objective was to topple not only the giant but to topple the giants piggy bank so to speak. Extraordinary events and events without precedence have no rule book in place to be followed to attempt to equate one to a common event shows the limitations of your understanding of the entire picture
 
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:41 AM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
Latest Blog:
None

 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,751
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
Where did you get the info about the specific suspect beams being sent to China?
It was all over the news at the time. Anybody that was paying attention knows this.
But here...
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
In all the mess that was there, how would you even begin to know which they were to begin with? After such a tragedy which is better? A long drawn out investigation leaving the rubble and bodies that could still be considered bodies still in place, or a rapid clean up since everyone on earth witnessed what happened (3 huge passenger jets flying into the building).
First of all, there were 2 planes in NY, not 3.
But since you brought it up, there actually WERE 3 BUILDINGS that fell in NY, even though one was never hit with a plane.
That was never sufficiently explained by the official report.

And, it would seem to me that when 3000 people are murdered, a proper investigation is the ONLY way to honour the dead. To gloss over their deaths and sweep up the mess quickly because it's convenient does the victims a great disservice, as does shirking our responsibility to fully investigate the crime.
But, to each his own, I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
The main goal if not mistaken was to overcome and stand up proud and come together to show we had not been beaten as a people or a country. So which at that time served the purpose to promote the moving forward and not letting the terrorists achieve their real goal?
Without a proper investigation into ALL of the events of that day, you can't even be certain who was responsible for it. Someone shows up with a passport that miraculously survives the wreckage and hand feeds it to the media, and the stunning part is that people believed what the government and media hand fed them, without question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
It can just as easily be argued that the conspiracy theorists are unjust in anything they have formulated, it too is nothing more than sheer speculation and based on nothing more than assumptions biased in the direction they want it to be.
The only conspiracy theorists are the government and media with their conspiracy to concoct this BS story and sell it to the public. Sadly, a large portion of the public within the US borders bought it, hook, line and sinker.
Instead of parroting the same tired old insults that statists have been for 12 years, why not take a step back and examine the official story with objective eyes and see it for the farce that it is. You have several architechts and engineers that put their reputations on the line and state that things COULD NOT have happened the way that the government said. Are they all nutters? Conspiracy theorists?
Seriously. Look at the official explanation and come to the same conclusions that the majority of people outside the US have come to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion...iracy_theories

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
Your premise is absurd at best. A murder scene walked up on by cops versus a devastating blow to an entire country risking the fall of an entire world economy if left unchecked and allowed to fester into the massive blow that was really meant by the terrorists who planned it. The deaths were candy. The real objective was to topple not only the giant but to topple the giants piggy bank so to speak. Extraordinary events and events without precedence have no rule book in place to be followed to attempt to equate one to a common event shows the limitations of your understanding of the entire picture
This is all just the same tired propaganda your government has been hand feeding you since it happened.
All the while, proving themselves to be the REAL THREAT to your peace and security.
You want to believe the statist mantra that it was a bunch of bad guys in a cave who did it? Fine.
I can't make you see the truth.

But those bad guys in that cave didn't shred the Constitution. The government did.
Those bad guys didn't buy 1.2 billion rounds of ammunition to be used within US borders. The government did.
Those bad guys haven't militarized the police across the USA. The government did.
Those bad guys didn't lock down Boston and violate people's rights to look for one teenager. The government did.
Those bad guys aren't trying desparately to take guns away from law abiding citizens. The government is.
Those bad guys aren't indefinitely detaining American citizens. The government is.
Those bad guys didn't use the NSA to spy on millions of Americans. The government did.
Those bad guys didn't crash the economy in 2008 and then rob the people to bail out the banks. The government did.
Those bad guys didn't make it a crime to protest near a government official. The government did.
Those bad guys didn't make it near impossible to sue big pharma for gross negligence. The government did.
Those bad guys didn't appoint a Monsanto CEO as head of the FDA, while cracking down on farmers who sell food to people directly. The government did.
Those bad guys didn't use 9/11 as a jumping off point to start or participate in illegal wars in Iraq, Libya and Syria. The government did.
Those bad guys aren't drone bombing innocent people in Pakistan, Yemen, Iraq, Syria. The government is.
Those bad guys didn't have the power to limit and/or block testimony to the 9/11 commission panel. The government did.
Those bad guys didn't tell everyone that Al Qaida was enemy number one and then, years later, provide them arms and cash in Libya and Syria. The government did.

Wake up and smell the fascism, Dude. It ain't coming from a cave in Afghanistan.
9/11 Was the key event which allowed all of this to happen.
If you want to blindly believe the "official" story your government sold you, then that's your perogative, but the conspiracy theorist is you.
I would like answers after a careful investigation, not half baked theories without a proper investigation that might be sellable to the sheeple by government with an agenda.
The victims of 9/11 deserve better than what they got, an apathetic public not willing to challenge the status quo for fear of upsetting the apple cart or missing American Idol that week. The attack was the injury. The following insult was to allow the government to whitewash the investigation.

Yes. The true conspiracy theorists are the ones who blindly accept the wild conspiracy tale spun by government without proper evidence to back that fantastical story up, not those who demand frank answers after a proper investigation.
This wasn't the first false flag you guys have been subjected to, but you'd think it was. Odd.
 
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2013, 11:52 AM
TechWizard's Avatar
v7n Mentor
 
Join Date: 07-26-07
Location: Georgia
Posts: 6,156
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Zap, you are obviously very passionate about your assumptions on the side of a story that you feel has been swept under the rug and not been given due diligence. I can and do respect that. Everyone that knows me knows what side of the political tree I swing from. I am not a die hard republican and have and surely will again vote on either a democrat or republican if I have been thoroughly convinced they are best for the job, if I am not convinced either are then I will vote for neither, or any if there are multiple options. If you read the engineering studies you will see that fire was never claimed to be the reason for the structural collapse but rather prolonged heat that weakened the structural integrity of the steel. There is a drastic difference between the two things. Steel may not melt unless it gets to a particular temperature, and that temperature must remain there for it to stay in the liquid form, but it can and does become weaker at a much lower temperature. Given only one or a very few of the structural beams weakening then you probably do not have a collapse given the weakening of a majority of them why would you think there is not? As to what you call the pancake theory, structurally speaking how dose that not make sense as to what should have happened under the circumstances, the only way it wouldn't is if it was knocked of its gravitational center knocked from its foundation if you would to put it in a different way. Going by the premise that there is no historical evidence that metal has ever done this before, I would argue that it has never been under the same circumstance before so how could you base the outcome on precedence? As to the other buildings falling, at what force did the debris and entire building hit the ground? How much metal and concrete and other debris were coming down at over 200kmps? What force would be blown out from that? Would that not be enough to cause structural failure to surrounding buildings? So, to cover the conspiracy aspect of things, is it possible that it was done? I can't prove that it wasn't so I can't categorically deny the possibility but the likelihood that it was that in my opinion is less than a successful attack that had failed multiple times before. Is there a rogue agency out there somewhere that thought the U.S. needed to wake up and become aggressive in defending herself again? That too is not impossible. Truth is even with a thorough investigation of such devastation the likelihood of finding an undisputed truth to everything was almost nill. As I said before, it was an unprecedented action and devastation, it was meant not only to cause the deaths it did, it was more focused on an economical and longer lasting impact. How do you prevent that aspect of it? Not sure if it was men in caves or a few rich dudes sitting drinking scotch someplace, the personal life tendencies had little impact on what had been planned and accomplished. Just like the Benghazi attack, signs were there, already an attack on Red Cross, an assassination attempt on British Prime Ambassador and a statement of how there were three targets those two and then the U.S., is it a surprise that it happened? How many years had the World Trade Center been targeted by the same group? Surely the WTC tragedy could have been avoided, the signs were there and there may even been a heightened suspicion of where, how and When...all we had to do was to take out the airliners before they hit right?
__________________
Get A PC Helper
Virus Malware Removal | Remote Computer Repair
And More...
www.pchelper123.com


 
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:35 PM
Zap's Avatar
Zap Zap is offline
Super Moderator
Latest Blog:
None

 
Join Date: 01-15-06
Posts: 13,751
iTrader: 5 / 100%
Never before or since, has a steel framed building collapsed due to "fire weakening the steel" but here it happens thrice on the same day?
And one of those buildings didn't even get hit by any plane?!?!?
Do you know what the odds of that happening are?
And again, there is a line of engineers that say that's not possible.
And again, it's never happened before or since.

But we're not just talking about the steel.
There are far too many inconsistencies in the official version of events to just write off as coincidence or bad luck. Far too many.

I'm not saying I know what happened. I'm not coming forward with half baked theories.
The government is.
I'm just saying that the government provided a terrible explanation of what took place, after ignoring much of the evidence and completing a terrible investigation and blocking certain aspects of that investigation. Even one of the commission members said from the beginning that a cover up was happening. Add to that, the fact that the government has usurped an awful lot of power from the people since then and that gives them motive.
So when they present a pretty far fetched explanation, with very little evidence properly collected and examined, I have to laugh at the thought of taking their version of events as truth, mostly on faith in their ability to tell the truth, knowing that they stood to gain a lot of power from this event.
I need more. I don't trust them.

In short, I don't know what happened.
But I'm pretty sure that the official version of events didn't happen. It just doesn't add up when viewed with any real scrutiny.

Last edited by Zap; 10-31-2013 at 06:38 PM.
 
Reply With Quote
Go Back   Webmaster Forum > The Webmaster Forums > Forum Lobby > Controversial Social Issues

Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Urban Terror dWhite Gamers Forum 0 01-15-2011 01:31 PM
A New War On Terror? krahmaan Controversial Social Issues 11 11-26-2008 09:23 AM
War on terror G10 Controversial Social Issues 108 10-06-2006 12:45 AM
Guns and terror littleFella Controversial Social Issues 167 08-23-2006 01:46 PM
article about bushs record on terror before 9-11 ferret77 Forum Lobby 72 03-29-2004 11:55 AM


V7N Network
Get exposure! V7N I Love Photography V7N SEO Blog V7N Directory


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:39 PM.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Copyright © 2003 - 2014 Escalate Media




Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.