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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2006, 04:21 PM
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Guns and terror

Just aired on 60 Minutes;

High power assault rifles, ones that are more powerful than those used by the US law enforcement are easilly available on the market. There was a law requiring the keeping of sales records for 30 days so that FBI could check the purchases against their list of terrorists and other suspect customers. The 30 day period has been reduced to 24 hour by none other than Mr Ashcroft, formerly of Bush's administration.

The law is in effect as of today.
War on terrorism? By listening to private calls, while ignoring gun sales?
Something doesn't make sense here.
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Old 08-20-2006, 04:37 PM
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Huh?

He's been out for almost two years. How could he have any effect on this now?

Any links?
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Old 08-20-2006, 05:30 PM
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Every American has the responsibility to own, maintain, and know how to operate a rifle. This is our nations best defense against terrorism.

Also, as you are Canadian, you may not be aware that firearm purchases in the U.S. require background checks. You don't get the gun until you pass the background check.

Please quit spreading propaganda and misinformation about your southern neighbors. Thank you.
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Old 08-20-2006, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buskerdoo
Huh?

He's been out for almost two years. How could he have any effect on this now?

Any links?
Passing legislation isn't a 10 minute affair.
Checked 60 minutes but it looks I'd have to pay for transcripts. Of course you're welcome to do that. One link I found may help though.
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Old 08-20-2006, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will.Spencer
Every American has the responsibility to own, maintain, and know how to operate a rifle. This is our nations best defense against terrorism.
Can you show me some examples of how terrorism has been defeated because an average gun bearing citizen prevented it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will.Spencer
Also, as you are Canadian, you may not be aware that firearm purchases in the U.S. require background checks. You don't get the gun until you pass the background check.
As a Canadian I am aware that the US is not a legal monolith in all spects of the law, and that many States have their own gun laws. Also, background check is at the discretion of the individiual States. There are a lot of various issues, which you can get your self aquainted with here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will.Spencer
Please quit spreading propaganda and misinformation about your southern neighbors. Thank you.
I reported what was said on American main stream media. How does that make me spread propaganda and misinformation?
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleFella
I reported what was said on American main stream media. How does that make me spread propaganda and misinformation?
You took an already heavily biased news source, CBS, and added more bias and propaganda to it.

You should be ashamed of yourself for such behavior.

What do you really believe that you are accomplishing with such blatant propaganda posts? Do you have a goal other than to make yourself look bad?
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will.Spencer
You took an already heavily biased news source, CBS, and added more bias and propaganda to it.

You should be ashamed of yourself for such behavior.

What do you really believe that you are accomplishing with such blatant propaganda posts? Do you have a goal other than to make yourself look bad?
Give up on him, I did. He is obviously a far left extremist and as you pointed out earlier, is not even a US citizen. Look through some of his other "political posts" and you will see that it is a lost cause.

Just my

Jeremy

I fully believe in The Second Amendment and the rest of the United States Constitution. We do not slander Canada or Amsterdam or Atheism (or whatever you would consider yourself). So why must you constantly slam US!
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Old 08-21-2006, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatcomsFinest
as you pointed out earlier, is not even a US citizen.
When US politics no longer affect non-US citizens, then your point will become valid. Until then...
 
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Old 08-21-2006, 03:10 AM
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US citizens owning guns - how does that affect other countries?
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Old 08-21-2006, 03:17 AM
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So, you're in agreement, then. Non-citizens of the US have no valid input on US affairs?


Oh, and, BTW, what Will, WCF and you fail to realize is that, on the topic of guns specifically, Canadians actually DO get affected by American guns. A large percentage of illegal guns purchased on Canadian streets are stolen from American homes.
 
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Old 08-21-2006, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatcomsFinest
Give up on him, I did.
Glad to see that the sentiment is mutual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatcomsFinest
He is obviously a far left extremist and as you pointed out earlier
Both of you no squat about me. I left my home country when it was communist, and because it was communist, not after it ceased to be communist. You don't even have a slightest idea what you are talking about when you are talking about far left. No, hollywoood movies do not always tell the truth

And having been trained in weaponry since the age of 15 (yup, we had to play with that *hit since highschool, a part of curriculum) I still think guns should be only used when the wits and brains fail. I think I won't be far off if I say that most civilized world thinks that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatcomsFinest
is not even a US citizen
Is that some kinda of reason to feel left out?
I lived in the US for 5 years. US is a great country. There are other great countries though. I chose to live in Canada, and refused to apply for Green Card appliczations when I was offered the opportunity through employment.
My daughter is a US citizen though. Oh well...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatcomsFinest
I fully believe in The Second Amendment and the rest of the United States Constitution.
If you check your constitituion (yup, the American one) you will see that W.Spence is full of it when he says about the duty to bear arms to defend your coiuntry. His statement is self serving. Nothing more. The Constitution gives you the right, but makes it no duty to bear arms. Each citizen, IMO, has a duty to deffend their country by any means he/she can, even if it's fetching big macs for US troops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhatcomsFinest
We do not slander Canada or Amsterdam or Atheism (or whatever you would consider yourself). So why must you constantly slam US!
Show me one quote when I slandered the US or any religious group? Can you?
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
If you check your constitituion (yup, the American one) you will see that W.Spence is full of it when he says about the duty to bear arms to defend your coiuntry. His statement is self serving. Nothing more. The Constitution gives you the right, but makes it no duty to bear arms. Each citizen, IMO, has a duty to deffend their country by any means he/she can, even if it's fetching big macs for US troops.
He didn't say that the constitution required everybody to bear arms; he indicated that he believed it was the (moral and civic) responsibility of citizens to know how to use firearms in order to defend the liberty of the nation.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap
So, you're in agreement, then. Non-citizens of the US have no valid input on US affairs?


Oh, and, BTW, what Will, WCF and you fail to realize is that, on the topic of guns specifically, Canadians actually DO get affected by American guns. A large percentage of illegal guns purchased on Canadian streets are stolen from American homes.
Point in case.
Most guns illegally used in Canada are the ones smuggled from the US. As per a freind of mine from Buffalo, his parents used to take him and his siblings to Toronto when he was a kid. He fondly remembered a peaceful and very liviable city. Now Toronto is not such a nice place anymore. While a far cry from the Bronx in the 80's and before, it is approaching the bad example.

Urban Studies students of SUNY used to take school trips to Toronto to see how a large city "can work", both on an architectural and social levels. That changed. Now those trips are organized to show students how a city can fail when too much American example sips through.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott
He didn't say that the constitution required everybody to bear arms; he indicated that he believed it was the (moral and civic) responsibility of citizens to know how to use firearms in order to defend the liberty of the nation.
I was refering, to W.Spencer's post, where he mentions a duty of every US citizen to bear arms. I still think this is not reasonable. I can;t fathom how would it help the US security if an average "Mary the secretary" showed up in her office every morning with an M16.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:12 AM
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We just making up facts as we go?

Toronto is one of the safest cities in North America.

http://www.toronto.ca/quality_of_life/safety.htm

And is this idea that US guns are killing people in Toronto a guess, or do you have a link to credible statistics on the matter?
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:16 AM
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How do you stop terror by taking guns away from the responsible people? That makes no sense. Reminds me to the stupid elementary school teacher who could never figure out who threw the empty drink containers at her and gave everyone more homework. No one did the homework. She never gained control over the class. Why? Because the good kids didn't respect her. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater and coming up with ignorant "solutions" will only make things worse.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleFella
I was refering, to W.Spencer's post

So was I.

Quote:
where he mentions a duty of every US citizen to bear arms.
Where did he say that? Where did he say that secretaries should take M16's to work?

This is your crap debate tactics again. Somebody says something entirely reasonable:

Quote:
Every American has the responsibility to own, maintain, and know how to operate a rifle. This is our nations best defense against terrorism.
And you can't argue it so you try to change what they said.

If there was an award for worst debater on v7n, I'd have to nominate you.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will.Spencer
You took an already heavily biased news source, CBS, and added more bias and propaganda to it.

You should be ashamed of yourself for such behavior.

What do you really believe that you are accomplishing with such blatant propaganda posts? Do you have a goal other than to make yourself look bad?
You keep repeating yourself. The news was just that, the news. The source is American. As a proud American you should defend the right to free speech. Don't you?

See, the problem is that you are some kind of weaponry pro (your posts seems to suggest that). As such, it is only natural that you see the world through a barrel of a gun. I was trained with weapons too and I took a good look through that barrel. It is a very, very narrow view.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sitetutor
How do you stop terror by taking guns away from the responsible people? That makes no sense. Reminds me to the stupid elementary school teacher who could never figure out who threw the empty drink containers at her and gave everyone more homework. No one did the homework. She never gained control over the class. Why? Because the good kids didn't respect her. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater and coming up with ignorant "solutions" will only make things worse.
Exactly.

In Washington State there's a small town called Winthrop. I visited several times when I was a kid, and he explained how there was no law enforcement there because everybody carried guns. No crime at all.
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Old 08-21-2006, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott
Where did he say that? Where did he say that secretaries should take M16's to work?
He said "every American". An American secretary falls in this category, don't you agree? Ever heard about Sets in mathematical logic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott
This is your crap debate tactics again. Somebody says something entirely reasonable:

And you can't argue it so you try to change what they said.
I argued that, but recived no reasonable response. I still know of no cases where an average gun bearing US citized prevented an act of terrorism. Maybe you know of one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scott
If there was an award for worst debater on v7n, I'd have to nominate you.
You are flattering me. But the thread is not about me, so I will modestly suggest we get back to the topic. Unless you too think that personal attacks prove anything other than lack of arguments on the part of the attacker.
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