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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2014, 03:28 PM
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Nothing but nonsense coming from the US and the EU today.
The citizens on the Crimea held a referendum and a whopping 97% voted to declare themselves independent of Ukraine, seek international recognition as an independent state and begin the process of joining Russia.

The US won't recognize this referendum or honour the wishes of 97% who democratically voted to join Russia.
But they will recognize, fund and work with the Neo-Nazis who overthrew the democratically elected government of Ukraine?
Hypocrisy much? I can smell the BS from here.

And lest you think I'm bashing the US, here, Brad...
My own country will follow suit, already pledging to steal $200 million from us taxpayers and give it to the Nazis.
It seems my Prime Minister can't even tie his shoes without permission and instructions from the US government.

The whole thing is disgusting and these A-Holes are going to have us at war, again, over something which doesn't concern us.
 
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2014, 04:14 PM
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Sanctions is one thing but I'd be surprised if the US/EU would be willing to even spell out the word "war" against Russia, Zap.

The US has built up an unhealthy portfolio of enemies around the world and all it takes is for us to be tied up against a nation like Russia and it could open the biggest can of worms as nations like Iran and South Korea watch on with keen interest (which would put China in a dangerous position against us)

We can't afford to play the "we won't back down" game on this issue as it is too risky.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2014, 05:10 AM
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I wish I shared your optimism, G10, but economic sanctions are an act of war and the ultimatums being delivered by the west don't leave a lot of room for backing down.

And King Obama has pulled another Obama, issuing an executive order, rather than going through congress.
The really funny thing is... His latest executive order could actually be used against himself! LOL!

http://theantimedia.org/obama-condem...-over-ukraine/

Quote:
In yet another Orwellian Doublespeak moment, President Obama signed a new executive order declaring any ‘US persons’ thought to be undermining certain democratic processes in Ukraine could be subject to asset seizure.
Quote:
By these vague standards, not only can any American who speaks out about the West’s apparent coup d’état be detained and have their assets seized, but by definition this executive order sets the premise for Barack Obama and other bureaucrats including John Kerry and John McCain to have their assets seized as well.

“Actions or policies that undermine democratic processes or institutions in Ukraine” are exactly what the US political establishment is doing. Or are we forgetting that Ukraine’s former government was democratically elected? Did Obama just forget that the US backed, propped up and even hand picked Ukraine’s new “recognized” government as it overthrew the existing democracy?
Giving billions of dollars to a group that overthrows a democratically elected government in Ukraine would qualify as "undermining certain democratic processes in Ukraine". Wouldn't it?
 
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2014, 05:22 AM
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As predicted, it didn't take my own Prime Minister too long to show how much he also likes to play with Nazis.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/russ...nada-1.2575822

And his list pretty much mirrors Obama's. Would be nice if he had an original thought.
 
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2014, 06:36 AM
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Irans nuclear talks are now coming into play and they may start using this as leverage, and I wonder who against
Quote:
Iran Urges Progress as Nuclear Talks Resume
Some snippets from the news article..

Quote:
If Russia signals that its cooperation with the West has weakened, that will reduce pressure on Iran to make concessions, said experts knowledgeable about the talks.
Quote:
The talks are being watched closely in Israel, which has not excluded a military strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities. In the newspaper Haaretz on Tuesday, Israel’s defense minister, Moshe Yaalon, was quoted as saying that the United States “should lead the campaign against Iran” but instead was negotiating with Tehran.

“Therefore, on this matter, we have to behave as though we have nobody to look out for us but ourselves,” he said in a remark that some analysts said did not necessarily amount to a call for a military strike.
Chances are nothing will come of all this but do we really want to be riding this train?
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2014, 06:46 AM
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Putin signs Russia-Crimea treaty
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The West, he said, had behaved "irresponsibly" in backing the uprising, and dismissed concerns that Russia might go on to annex more of Ukraine.
Quote:
He also thanked China for what he said was its support during the crisis. Beijing, which routinely avoids commenting on the affairs of other countries, had abstained from voting on a UN draft resolution condemning Russia for its actions in Crimea.
Again, I say us Western countries should keep out of this.. Too many eyes watching us for my liking.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2014, 07:12 AM
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This whole situation might be better served by allowing the people of the Crimea and the people of the rest of Ukraine to sort their own problems out.
 
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2014, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
This whole situation might be better served by allowing the people of the Crimea and the people of the rest of Ukraine to sort their own problems out.
I will vote for that.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2014, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
This whole situation might be better served by allowing the people of the Crimea and the people of the rest of Ukraine to sort their own problems out
Ditto
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2014, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Zap View Post
This whole situation might be better served by allowing the people of the Crimea and the people of the rest of Ukraine to sort their own problems out.
I agree but based on the United State's history, there's a probability that might not happen.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2014, 05:42 PM
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[YT]yp3rHNn2ZAs[/YT]

The guy being pushed into the chair is the head of the Ukrainian state run TV station.
He's being told to resign.
The guy who keeps hitting and pushing him is a member of the new Ukrainian government who doesn't want Russia to have a voice in Ukraine and as you can see, is not afraid to use violence to ensure his story is the only side told.

These are the people we are giving money and support to.

Treachery on both sides.

Last edited by Zap; 03-25-2014 at 09:24 AM. Reason: Found Another Link To Removed YouTube Video
 
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:57 PM
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Thanks for the video. People hear or read these things but seeing it makes it more real. Anyway, it will be interesting how it will play out.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 04:51 AM
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Just as a follow up...
The guy eventually did get forced to sign the resignation letter under threat of violence.
After he left the building and the cameras were turned off, he was beaten anyway.
 
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2014, 06:06 AM
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The "NUG" (New Ukrainian Government officials) aren't really the smartest people if they allowed that to be filmed because though it is a mute point but the resignation letter wouldn't actually stand due to being enforced by violence and threats.

Even the us Brits and US have to concede to that. Unless we were biased of course
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Old 03-23-2014, 12:42 AM
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As far as i remember, Russia had the last word when it was about Iran, Syria and Georgia, and i guess the situation in Crimea was just a way for Russia to say enough! to NATO. I believe that the only reason they took Crimea is that they didn't want NATO to build military bases there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
I'd be surprised if the US/EU would be willing to even spell out the word "war" against Russia, Zap.
I suppose the reason no one is saying that, it is because they know that a war with Russia will most likely turn in WW3 and this might wipe a few countries from the face of the earth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
I wish I shared your optimism, G10, but economic sanctions are an act of war and the ultimatums being delivered by the west don't leave a lot of room for backing down.
The sanctions might get paid by the EU. All countries in EU use from about 30% to 100% gas from Russia, and Russia decides the price paid by each country for their gas. I don't believe Russia will turn off the pipes but i can imagine what would that mean for Europe.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2014, 09:29 AM
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So...
While the western nations puff themselves up, thinking we're so smart...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...ega-deal-india

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Last week we reported that while the West was busy alienating Russia in every diplomatic way possible, without of course exposing its crushing overreliance on Russian energy exports to keep European industries alive, Russia was just as busy cementing its ties with China, in this case courtesy of Europe's most important company, Gazprom, which is preparing to announce the completion of a "holy grail" natural gas supply deal to Beijing. We also noted the following: "And as if pushing Russia into the warm embrace of the world's most populous nation was not enough, there is also the second most populated country in the world, India." Today we learn just how prescient this particular comment also was, when Reuters reported that Rosneft, the world's top listed oil producer by output, may join forces with Indian state-run Oil and Natural Gas Corp to supply oil to India over the long term, the Russian state-controlled company said on Tuesday.
And no, Russia will not be selling energy to China or India for US Dollars.
If the west wants to crash the dollar and make itself go bankrupt, they're doing a fine job.
This sanctions war with Russia is a war that the west will lose.
China and India make up a third of the Earth's population. If we can't get them to play ball with us, we're done for.
 
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2014, 10:02 AM
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POLITICAL power grows out of the barrel of a gun, according to Mao Zedong. But guns and other accoutrements of military might tend to grow out of a thriving economy. This week's special report refers to the emerging geopolitical rivalry between China and America. The United States has long boasted both an unrivalled economy and unparalleled global clout. Its status as the world's biggest power remains secure, the report argues. But its position as the world's biggest economy is more precarious.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...-gdp-forecasts

Quote:
Cut the energy pipeline between Russia and Europe and Europe’s massive economy will no doubt slow, perhaps precipitously. But Europe will be able to replace its imports of oil and natural gas a lot faster than Russia replaces the money it earns selling to Europe. The U.S., which recently surpassed Russia as the world’s largest energy producer, can provide Europe with oil and perhaps some natural gas. Norway can provide natural gas, and so can Australia, Canada, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar. If Russia stopped selling energy to the EU, the continent would stumble, but Russia would surely fall.
Here’s another angle on the mismatch: the countries’ sizes. Russia has 143 million people living within its borders while the EU has 500 million and the US has 310 million, meaning Russia is outnumbered again. And what if Russia did take the Ukraine – all of it? That would add 45 million people to the Russian side, but it would also add roughly $20 billion in external debt.
http://blogs.hbr.org/2014/03/is-ukra...-wants-to-win/

Quote:
Has the Indian economy shrunk over the last one year? A PTI press release states that India's economy is expected to grow to $1.7 trillion by the end of the financial year 2013-2014. But how much was the Indian economy's size previous year? In dollar terms was it less or higher than $1.7 trillion? Interestingly as per an IMF report, name World Economy Outlook published in April 2013, the Indian GDP for the financial year 2012 was $1.8 trillion and was expected to be $1.9 trillion for the financial year ended 2013-2014.

Read more at: http://news.oneindia.in/feature/in-d...k-1391642.html
With the current political make up here in the states I fully agree Zap, this scares the hell out of everyone. With the right leadership and backing it is not hard to see an economical war being somewhat easily one with the West's advantage. After all, this was how the Kremlin fell before and it really hasn't been long enough for that to have been fully recovered from. Adding the other two countries you mentioned does increase the ammunition of the other side but if there were true unity it would be easily accomplished if it were to remain an economic war...
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2014, 12:51 PM
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This is not just about the West and Russia, this goes a heck of a lot deeper. Why do you think that Russia really could care less about our sanctions.

The problem with this situation are the countries that are watching us with interest (Iran, North Korea etc). They are not powerful on their own but they carry enough hate for the west and put these nations together and even though we may come up trumps, our economies are going to take a hell of a beating along the way.

We also run the risk of weakening our presence in countries such as Iraq and even Israel are getting pee'd off with the US.

What in the name of God is the president doing??
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Old 03-25-2014, 01:22 PM
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This is not just about the West and Russia, this goes a heck of a lot deeper. Why do you think that Russia really could care less about our sanctions.

The problem with this situation are the countries that are watching us with interest (Iran, North Korea etc). They are not powerful on their own but they carry enough hate for the west and put these nations together and even though we may come up trumps, our economies are going to take a hell of a beating along the way.

We also run the risk of weakening our presence in countries such as Iraq and even Israel are getting pee'd off with the US.

What in the name of God is the president doing??
I've been asking that question about our president since almost day one.
 
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2014, 03:39 PM
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@Techwizard: I agree that Russia will also feel pain if they stop all trade with the EU. But I think you grossly underestimate how much the EU relies on energy from Russia. They could eventually replace their supply, but that takes time, and lots of it. It's not something that can happen overnight. And Russia is already taking steps to increase their customer base, reducing their dependence on the EU. They are being proactive.
And if they start moving away from the US dollar in all trade with other nations, the US can kiss its global dominance goodbye. Everything the US does around the world depends on its ability to raise funds by selling bonds. No buyers = no funds = superpower status ends.
They already are working on agreements to trade amongst themselves (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) in a currency (probably the Chinese renminbi) other than the US dollar.
The writing is on the wall, Dude. It just depends on how quickly they want to move.
(And it doesn't help the case for continued US world dominance that it is China that currently holds most US debt).
 
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