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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2014, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by salati View Post
So i guess the answer is easy, the people that have the power and that is all humans in this planet, they are the real power and they should do something about this problem!!!
OK, you go first and let us know how it works out.
 
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2014, 08:03 AM
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Some more light reading...

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/201...hitlerite.html

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There is in Donbass an itty-bitty village – Saurovka. It’s right next to the Saur-Mogila Mound memorial. The Ukie army, being a direct successor to Hitlerite Wehrmacht, terribly hates Saur-Mogila, as it is a symbol of Russian valor in the Great Patriotic War. All the time their artillery and mortars lob shells directly at the memorial. But they cannot get any closer. On and around the Mound our fighters lie in wait. However, I am not here to talk about the defence of the memorial or of the [strategic] height.

I will talk about the little village of Saurovka. It’s really small. There are only 50 or so houses [in the entire settlement]. One day, the pravoseki [Right Sector militants] came there. NazGuard [National Guard], Azov-2 and Dnepr-2. And then they instilled European values in the village. They cut out[, murdered] all the men. They would cut them alive. They would cut the arms, then the legs. Then the head.

They did not cut the women – they raped them. And now they continue [to rape them], during the pauses between battles. Doubtlessly, the various fanboys of Europe and the Maidanites will say that these are made-up fairy tales. Nevertheless, all [that I said] is true. So, Messrs. Lyashko and Poroshenko, what was it that you were bleating about? A ceasefire? Something about how we need to disarm? There were no weapons in Saurovka …
Take note, chocolate baron, truth is on our side, and, one day, we will come for you. Yes, you, personally!

The forested area around Saur-Mogila continues to be replenshished with the fresh dead.
 
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jeomo View Post
OK, you go first and let us know how it works out.
I hope you don't go with the same approach in your daily business!!!
 
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2014, 04:31 PM
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This from Reuters bothers me a little - Proposed ban on Russian arms firm would hurt US troops

The expression "Cutting your nose off to spite your face" comes to mind.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2014, 09:37 AM
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What's really troubling is all of the political posturing and blaming (even as quickly as within minutes of the crash of MH17 with no information collected) going on.
It's tough to imagine an actual impartial investigation taking place.

The crash site is very difficult to access, which seems to be the fault of the Russian separatists, but that is unconfirmed.
The radar evidence from the tower in Kiev has been confiscated by the Ukrainian government, which is not yet admitted to but that evidence hasn't been forthcoming.
And the rest of the noise is just speculation at this point.
 
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2014, 05:01 PM
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Zap, you have hit the nail on the head and I was wondering when someone was going to say something.

There is probably nothing in this whatsoever and I am not trying to play "conspiracy theorist" here, but I also found it AMAZING at how the USA quickly jumped on and pointed the finger at Russian separatists without any hard evidence.

This plays perfectly into other nations hands as they try to force Russia's hand.

Any credible nation would know to shut its mouth until proof is found but it seems like some were all over this and pointing blame the moment it happened.
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2014, 06:05 PM
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Zap I would have to say the world is our problem. If a country doesn't care what is happening on the other side of the world. What happens after nukes are launched does the fallout affect the United States? So yes we do have to get involved around the world as there are lunatics all around.

Instead of fighting "Earth" as a single unit should be looking to explore the universe and not sitting on this planet. Human's are their own worst enemies. Instead of fighting over a small planet why not work together and expand?
 
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2014, 06:20 AM
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^^ If mankind could do this, it would be the biggest achievement ever, though a small 5 letter word will sum this one up nicely for you - "greed"
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2014, 06:04 AM
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I was having a discussion yesterday and it seems as though this is where we stand...

The Ukrainian separatists have allowed access to the crash site and are (to date) guaranteeing the crash investigators' safety.
Removal and return of the deceased has already been underway for days and the black boxes were turned over to the investigative team a couple of days ago.
The Russian government has released radar imagery and satellite photos as evidence of what has taken place and have posed some very interesting and important questions.

The Ukrainian government siezed radar evidence from the Kiev ground tower and has NOT released that evidence, even a week later.
The US government has satellite imagery evidence and has NOT released that evidence.

See a pattern here?

Russia and the Ukrainian separatists have cooperated fully with the investigation.
After the crash, Putin immediately called for an open and transparent investigation and also called on all parties to cease hostilities in the area of the wreckage so that the investigators can do their job.

The Ukraine and US governments have, since the beginning, been playing the blame game, without a shred of evidence to back up all their assertions and the US government is even now, backtracking and admitting that Russia had nothing to do with this and also admitted that IF the separatists did this, it was probably an accident and not intentional.
A week has passed and neither the Ukraine nor US governments have released the evidence that they have about the crash.
It is in direct violation of UN resolution #2166 for them to continue to withhold this evidence, but more importantly, they are impeding and interfering with the investigation that will help bring some closure to the victims' families.
It is inexcusable for any government to withhold evidence that is necessary for the crash investigators to figure out what happened and why.

Western media is largely silent. And until the people pressure their governments into doing the right thing, they won't.
When these leaders speak, pay more attention to their ACTIONS, rather than their words.
 
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:14 AM
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The US just scares me.

Remember when they came out with this little nugget regarding WMD's -
Quote:
"COLIN POWELL: My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence."
This guy has the blood of US (and UK) soldiers on his hands and should be held accountable.

I have a lot of admiration for soldiers that fight for their country, but these soldiers fought and died thinking that they were making the world a safer place and stopping a nation with WMD.

All I am going to say is "PROVIDE THE PROOF OR SHUT THE HELL UP" as this really isn't fair on the families who lost loved ones to constantly have this dredged up daily. Tell them what they need to know and put things to rest, don't turn it into a political "point scoring" agenda.

Once proof is provided, then we will all accept it, but until then, as the saying goes....

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:26 AM
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The military industrial complex has fooled us well since 1946 and I don't suspect it is going to stop now. A few may develop immunity but the majority are too busy posting on Facebook to notice.
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2014, 05:10 PM
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We mostly accept all that comes with the military and state secrets, etc.
But this is no time to be playing political games.
The US and Ukraine governments should be ashamed of themselves.
People need closure. It's not going to help bring anyone back, but answers help begin the healing.
 
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2014, 05:39 AM
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Smile

Well...
It's nice to see that the US has finally released their satellite evidence...

Attached Thumbnails
Do We Really Want To Pick a Fight With Russia?-evidence.jpg  
 
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2014, 12:02 AM
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Does the Western World actually give a damn about the Ukrainians, or is this issue about something else?

Great article from The Guardian that explains things quite well - Ukraine crisis is about Great Power oil, gas pipeline rivalry For those that don't know, the Guardian is one of the most respected papers in the UK
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2014, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by G10 View Post
Does the Western World actually give a damn about the Ukrainians, or is this issue about something else?

Great article from The Guardian that explains things quite well - Ukraine crisis is about Great Power oil, gas pipeline rivalry For those that don't know, the Guardian is one of the most respected papers in the UK
While informative, that article is slanted against Russia, a lot less than most western media is, but it's still slanted a bit.
And it doesn't add a lot of context.

The truth of the matter is that both the US and Russia are meddling with Ukrainian internal affairs.
The US was not just an observer of the protests that overthrew the elected Yanyukovich government. They actively worked to create the overthrow and have been directly involved in the political process there ever since.
The Russians certainly siezed the opportunity when the residents of the Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and join Russia. They declined to move as quickly in the same case for Donbass and Donetsk. In that case, Putin urged restraint and asked the separatists to take their time and "get it right". In the end, the separatists there were asking to also be absorbed by Russia but Putin deferred action to see if diplomacy could reign. It did not. Now there is a civil war in Ukraine and it (unfortunately) promises to be bloody. It already is and war crimes are taking place there. But you won't hear much about that from western media.

Now, the gas pipelines, Russia's pipelines through Ukraine and Ukraine's possible independence from Russia (if they find gas on their west territory) are certainly factors in the tug of war for control of Ukraine. But they are NOT the only factors.

There has been a quiet war going on, started by the US, for quite a while now on a lot of other fronts.
We've seen the US and Russia butt heads over Iran, Syria, Ukraine.
We've also seen currency wars involving Russia, the US and China.
China, Russia, Brazil, India and South Africa have formed the BRICS bank. The BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South America) bank is a world bank that directly challenges the IMF and the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency.
There is an economic war going on right now with the US, the UK, Canada and Australia and parts of the EU on one side. And the other side is comprised solidly of Russia, China, India, South Africa, Brazil and most (if not all) of South American countries as well as a soft yes from some of the EU countries, who haven't come out on Russia's side yet, but they will. Their economy is better served by Russia than by the west. It's funny how it all comes down to money eventually.
This economic war will overturn US dominance over the world when the US Dollar collapses. Even if the US administration wanted to turn that clock back, it is pretty much already too late. But, they don't seem interested in turning that clock back, anyway, but instead seem determined to speed the process up. That is part of the reason why (over the past couple of years) the US seems to keep choosing a new enemy every 6-12 months or so (Iraq, Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Russia) and giving it the full court press in trying to get some fighting started. They pushed hard on Syria last year in an attempt to get involved there. Putin put the brakes on that by getting Assad to give up his chemical weapons, even though the chemical weapon attacks were actually committed by the rebels in Syria, NOT the government.
The powers that be (probably the military industrial complex, or at least heavily influenced by the MIC and the bankers) want this economic war to go HOT and turn into an actual military war, probably WWIII. If that happens, the MIC and the bankers (who generally finance BOTH sides in war) stand to make a LOT of money.

If you begin to look at world events through this lense, the events that used to appear random and without logic, start to make a whole lot of sense and you can see how they fit together as a larger puzzle.

Putin is by no means completely innocent in all this. After all, he's a politician and he has his ambitions. But he is actually trying to keep the peace, not just in Ukraine, but globally. But he's no pushover. He won't allow western hedgemony and an out of control US administration to just walk all over him and the rest of the world. Neither will China. That is one of the reasons (besides assuring their own dominance) they are working towards strengthening the BRICS bank... to take away the power of the US to continue to fight wars around the globe. If they lose the USD as the world's reserve currency, they won't be able to afford more wars. The Federal Reserve's blank chequebook will stop working.
The funny thing is... all of this is known to the major players involved (US, Russia, China, etc.). But for some reason, the US is actually pushing for their own demise. Every time the US orders up a new round of sanctions against Russia, they force Russia to divest even more away from the US dollar to protect themselves. And other nations are following suit. Just the other day, it was announced that the Swiss entered into a currency swap agreement with China so that they can settle trade in a currency other than the USD. This is just the latest in many many agreements like this between the BRICS nations and Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and other South American countries. Each agreement to divest away from USD (usually into Chinese renmimby) is another nail in the coffin of the USD and the agreements are being made more quickly as time passes. They're speeding up. With each new round of sanctions, the US is shooting themselves in the foot. We have a global economy now and the monied interests can simply set up shop somewhere else after sinking the US.
And if you're reading this and a lot of it isn't making sense for you, then just start paying attention to what these leaders are DOING and completely ignore what they SAY. The phrase "actions speak louder than words" has never been more important.
Unless the people (all of us) stand up and say we don't want this war, we're not going to fight in this war, we're not going to pay for this war and we're going to actively remove our leaders from office if they continue to support this war, then we don't have a hope of stopping it. Momentum is already moving us in the wrong direction and the media, beholden to government is complicit.

Now, it makes a bit more sense why the US and Ukraine governments haven't released the evidence they have of the MH17 crash. If they had anything against Russia or the separatists, they would have jumped at the chance to release it and villify them. Instead, we only get unverified accusations, easily debunked social media clips and their refusal to release the evidence that we already know they have of the crash (radar and satellite imagery and logs). That is highly suggestive that the evidence they DO have would likely implicate the Ukraine government in the crash. The US and Ukraine are actively interfering with the investigation. That's pretty serious. There has to be an equally serious reason why.
The Ukraine isn't just about gas and money. It's also about NATOs ability to place missiles just a few kilometers outside the Russian border. It's the Cuban missile crisis in reverse. The US wants NATO troops and weapons in Eastern Ukraine. We're not (western nations) just innocent bystanders, watching things unfold there.
 
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2014, 08:43 AM
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http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-0...nother-big-lie

Quote:
But it is in eastern Europe that the Warfare State machinery has most egregiously made an enemy and mission out of whole cloth. As the Cold War was drawing to a close in the late 1980s, then Secretary of State James Baker made a sensible deal with Gorbachev. In return for Soviet acquiesce in the reunification of Germany, the US would insure that NATO did not expand by a “single inch”.

Since then, of course, there has been a senseless bipartisan betrayal and stampede in the opposite direction. Starting under Clinton and extending through Bush and Obama, NATO has been expanded from 16 nations at the end of the Cold War to 28 countries today.
Quote:
In short, today’s Ukrainian crisis is the outcome of the mindless 20-year drive of the Warfare State to push an obsolete NATO to the very doorstep of Russia, and into the messy remnants of the Soviet disintegration. Stated differently, Putin has been in power for 15 years, yet during 13 of those years there was no hue and cry from Washington, London and Brussels that he was an incipient Hitler bent on sweeping conquest. Even the so-called invasion of Georgia in 2008 was a tempest in a teapot provoked by local pro-Russian separatists who did not want to be ruled by a de facto American interloper in Tbilisi.

In any event, it was the $5 billion that Washington spent during the last decade meddling in Ukrainian politics, and finally inciting and financing the February overthrow of the country’s constitutionally elected government that precipitated the current civil war. It brought to power a new gang of crooks and thugs who could not govern for a day without tapping the Washington/Western financial lifeline. Indeed, the civil war now raging, the brutal military attacks on civilian populations and the hundreds of thousands of refugees now streaming out of the eastern regions are the result of a crisis made in Washington, not the Kremlin.

So the rebels— who properly fear for their lives and property were the nationalists and neo-fascists who run the Kiev government to prevail—are not “terrorists” by any stretch of the imagination. That is just insipid Washington propaganda. Instead, they are the Russian speaking remnant of the Soviet empire who fear an ethnic cleansing and who noted well the fate of their kinsmen in the hands of Ukrainian thugs during the fire at Odessa.

Once again, the American Warfare State has confected a false narrative to justify policies and missions that have nothing to do with the safety and security of the citizens of Lincoln NE and Wooster MA. About 55-years ago such a false narrative arose in the form of the “domino theory” that lead to the carnage of Vietnam. Ten years ago it cropped up in the form of the WMD story that led to the disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq. Today, it is the preposterous story of Ukrainian territorial integrity, terrorists in the East and a latter-day Hitler in the Kremlin.

Unfortunately, false narratives are what the Warfare State does.
 
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Old 07-30-2014, 03:26 PM
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I dont think anyone should pick a fight with anyone in response to the op.
 
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2014, 04:32 PM
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I dont think anyone should pick a fight with anyone in response to the op.
Do you have anything to add to the current conversation that is going on right now or did you not read any replies?
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2014, 08:59 AM
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no that's really it, the idea of "picking fights" is not a bright one at all. If people would stop then a lot of problems would disappear but humans are evil by nature

other than that war will happen soon because it seems to be a tug-of-war economically with US and the east; now you take that with the Israel problem then we should all know that war is coming soon.
 
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:20 PM
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A couple of years ago a guy told me he was putting blocks of salt at the back of his property to bring in the deer. "Why", I asked? "To shoot for meat", he said. "Why", I asked again, because he was a bit of a "show-off", kind of well-off and could afford to buy food of course. He then proceeded to tell me that he was teaching his son to learn how to "fend for himself" when the "world goes to hell in a handbasket".

Well I kind of laughed and told this story to a few people along the way who were amazed at the sheer lunacy of the story's premise.

Well, it's not sounding so funny any more.
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