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Old 03-14-2014, 01:14 PM
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Should Laws have Common Sense?

Should laws include common sense and perhaps compassion to situation?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...,5149592.story
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:29 PM
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Sad story. I saw a link in the comments that led to more info, with maybe a tv news video coming soon? Here's the link http://www.change.org/petitions/harf...equi-this-case

While I understand that we can't just let dogs run wild, this case obviously has extenuating circumstances, and a $2500 bail seems excessive.

Extenuating circumstances is also the reason I think mandatory sentencing is bad news - I've read judge's statements where they felt really bad about sentencing someone but their hands were tied because of mandatory sentencing laws. Common sense apparently has no place in law these days.
 
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:19 AM
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It's a tough one as compassion should be given, but then on the other hand...

Quote:
Root is charged with failing to pay seven $75 civil citations
Ok, maybe they could have eased up a little here.
Quote:
According to court records, the county issued a warrant for Root's arrest on Feb. 12 after she failed to appear for a court hearing in November for the civil citations.
Ok, and their lawyer should have worked with the courts on this, even if she was to appear via skype for 2 mins, or, at least have a medical note clearing her of her court visit.
Quote:
David said Root suffered a great deal of stress upon finding out about the warrant and was admitted to Harford Memorial Hospital on Valentine's Day.
From what I can see, if the lawyer at the very least produced some medical note to help Root out and avoid court appearance then it wouldn't have come to this.

I do think the court was a little heavy handed but then one can see why if they were being given the runaround.

To me, the WORST thing about this story was this point...
Quote:
According to Gifford, one of Root's longtime neighbors takes photos of the dogs, when they get loose, and sends the photos to the animal control.
Society really has come to something when people would rather spend their time trying to get an 80 year old woman into trouble than actually helping her retrieve the dogs <-- This is sad.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
Should laws include common sense and perhaps compassion to situation?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...,5149592.story
There is some common sense to the law. Loose running dogs are a hazard to society. If you have pets you need a leash or a fence. I don't want your dog crap in my yard.

Being elderly make it a heart tugger but the law is the law.
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G10 View Post
To me, the WORST thing about this story was this point...
Society really has come to something when people would rather spend their time trying to get an 80 year old woman into trouble than actually helping her retrieve the dogs <-- This is sad.
Yeah, I nearly choked on that too.

And to the point of her not paying 7 tickets - if I read the story correctly, the 7 tickets were for TWO incidents, not seven. Seems like overkill to me.
 
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScriptMan View Post
There is some common sense to the law. Loose running dogs are a hazard to society. If you have pets you need a leash or a fence. I don't want your dog crap in my yard.

Being elderly make it a heart tugger but the law is the law.
While there is a point to the paradigm of "A Law is a Law", there still should be latitude in the law for the punishment to fit the crime. A person who blatantly allows their animals to run lose because they don't care or it takes to much of their effort versus a person/people that do everything in their power but have problems on occasion are completely different and deserve different levels. The first time or two should I think probably result in a warning, perhaps even direction to others who can help if there is a problem.

Not saying that I know all of the details of this particular case and perhaps I am reacting on something I know nothing about. I don't think an 82 year old woman in questionable health is a flight risk though. Perhaps if she had a lawyer on the missed court date and that lawyer didn't handle the no show it is more a case of malpractice but at any rate....I find it hard to believe that the issuing of the ticket was mandatory nor the putting someone in jail was mandatory if the judge decided there were extenuating circumstances or good faith on the side of the defendant. It's not like the lady had vicious animals from the story
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:55 AM
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I completely agree that we will never know the truth about this story but with the two facts stated in the story the judge was right to teach a lesson here.

Quote:
According to court documents, Root is also charged with one count of dog at-large and four counts dog license and term of license violations dating from last May 8. She has a trial date scheduled in April.

Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...#ixzz2wJnvC7wW
Quote:
"My mom has gotten other violations over the years, but these seven, she just couldn't pay," Gifford said. "She is on a fixed income."

Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...#ixzz2wJo4U074
So we have an admitted pattern of behavior which the neighbors are tired of dealing with.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ScriptMan View Post
I completely agree that we will never know the truth about this story but with the two facts stated in the story the judge was right to teach a lesson here.





So we have an admitted pattern of behavior which the neighbors are tired of dealing with.
Another perspective though is that she has likely lived there 10 times as long as anyone else...the grandfather clause may be proper here I deal with a very large number of senior citizens and I would think it very difficult to have to change so much in the later years to conform to what others have decided versus what you were used to for almost your entire life...most do so well, but out of respect to our elders I would think sometimes even for those that have repeated problems to as it was stated so well by G10 to attempt to help rather than go out of our way to belittle or prosecute. I am sure there is at least one neighbor who is capable of lending a helping hand if things get out of her control.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:28 AM
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The 30 year old down the street will have a legitimate beef if he's being ticketed for the same offense that the old lady is not being ticketed for.
A different set of laws for people, based on their age? Isn't that discrimination?
 
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:37 AM
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I don't think we should have different laws for different ages.

But I do think there's too many unknowns in this story.

If this is an occasional problem with the dogs getting out, and the old lady does her best to round them up and fix the problem, then the neighbors and the judge should have been more lenient.

If the old lady lets the dogs run loose all the time and does little or nothing to try to rectify the situation, then perhaps the punishment fits the crime. I just didn't get the impression that this is the case here.
 
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:59 AM
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Brink back ze firing squad, zat's vat I say!!









Oooops, wrong forum, wrong country and 70 years too late?
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
The 30 year old down the street will have a legitimate beef if he's being ticketed for the same offense that the old lady is not being ticketed for.
A different set of laws for people, based on their age? Isn't that discrimination?
Though it is not the same thing it is like children, while I have the same set of rules that they hate to no end, not all of them face the exact same response if they are bent or broken. Not all people react the same, not all have the same reasons or circumstances.

It does not cause a problem between my kids because what happens is designed and fair for each person and circumstance...perhaps I am keeping it to short so hopefully you get the drift....

As for those that raise a ruckus because they get ticketed and someone else doesn't it's time to grow up...same as those driving that get pulled over for speeding, some get tickets, some get tickets lower than their offense, and others get warnings...same speed limit same law different decisions.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:06 PM
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I think there should be compassion to an extent. For instance, if there was a personal family matter (funeral, hospital, accident, etc.), there should be a slight leniency. However, some people take advantage of those scenarios, believe it or not. It is heartbreaking for her to not being able to live in her home with her dogs, but, after years of them running free, I think she should have taken the necessary steps to avoid a problem like the one she's run into.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWizard View Post
As for those that raise a ruckus because they get ticketed and someone else doesn't it's time to grow up....
Seriously? If a law is discriminatory, just grow up? Quit complaining about it?
I guess we can go back to the good old days where blacks drank from different fountains?
Ageism is just as badly discriminatory for people on the wrong side as racism is, or sexism.
We have discrimination laws for a reason. Justice is supposed to be blind to age, sex, religion, race, sexual orientation, etc.
 
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by simplyamazing12 View Post
... after years of them running free, I think she should have taken the necessary steps to avoid a problem like the one she's run into.
I didn't see anything to indicate she had been letting them run free for years.

I have a neighbor with lots of dogs, and they manage to dig a hole under the fence and get out several times a year. The dogs annoy me, poop in my yard, etc. but as long as she keeps rounding up the dogs and filling the holes, I'm not calling animal control. Stuff happens.
 
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:14 AM
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I didn't see anything to indicate she had been letting them run free for years.

I have a neighbor with lots of dogs, and they manage to dig a hole under the fence and get out several times a year. The dogs annoy me, poop in my yard, etc. but as long as she keeps rounding up the dogs and filling the holes, I'm not calling animal control. Stuff happens.
Fine...I might have exaggerated saying "years". However, the article stated 3 incidents where the dogs were running free. Therefore, it is most likely that they had been loose times before the documented incidents. Some people might be able to tolerate their neighbor's dog(s) entering their property but I couldn't. I spend way too much to have a nice clean green grass yard.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:25 AM
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See post above with quote. That would lead me to believe it is a long term problem.

No one in their right mind is going to be ticked off at some that happens once or twice. A pattern of behavior is a totally different story.

If your dog takes a dump in my yard every day, you are going to find a pile of it on your front porch.
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
Seriously? If a law is discriminatory, just grow up? Quit complaining about it?
I guess we can go back to the good old days where blacks drank from different fountains?
Ageism is just as badly discriminatory for people on the wrong side as racism is, or sexism.
We have discrimination laws for a reason. Justice is supposed to be blind to age, sex, religion, race, sexual orientation, etc.
Come on now Zap...not the semantics game. You know me better than that...

Let me clarify,

The penalty should fit the crime. Not a mandatory sentence, not a zero tolerance police state. That is what I am attempting to say.

And yes there are always extenuating circumstances that should be allowed to be considered.

  • How many times has this really happened?
  • Are they roaming the neighborhood or staying relatively close to home?
  • Are these animals vicious or do they pose a threat?
  • Is this mainly the result of a neighbor that has nothing better to do than to take photos and be an ass?
  • Has the lady or any person been notified and then trying to get them back or telling everyone to push off and mind their own business?

I live in the country for this very reason (People no longer know how to mind their own business), I have 6 dogs, they are all rescues. I have a fenced in backyard but it is inevitable that on occasion someone is going to get out or lose at least a couple times a year. We immediately go get them as soon as we notice.

The bottom line is yeah, there is a law, yeah she didn't show up for court, that could have been due to ailing health and cognitive ability, could have been because doctors told her not to go, could have been because she had a lawyer that said not to worry they have it covered, a lot of different possible scenarios.

Did the judge take any of these things into consideration? Who knows on this particular story. Our society is so screwed up now because everyone lives within 50 or 100 feet of everyone else but expects to have the peace, privacy, and worry free environment as though their closest neighbor was a mile away. If someone is really so much of an ass they don't want to see anything beyond what they themselves want they shouldn't live in a neighborhood. If they decide to live in a neighborhood then they should expect to deal with what happens in other people's lives with respect and patience.

You and others aren't going to agree with that I know, and respect your thoughts, but that is really what it comes down to. Given any situation in order to enjoy convenience you give up something for that convenience. I have the convenience of living in the country of a small county. In order to enjoy the freedoms I do I have to deal with the fact I have no real High Speed Internet services available, I have a hunting lodge next door to me so have to accept there are going to be gun shots going off all of the time during parts of the year. I have to travel at least 30+ minutes to get to fast food, movies, larger retailers etc...if it was to much of an inconvenience or something I couldn't stand then I would move to where those conveniences were available and give up some of what I enjoy....

Is this a gated community? Is this lady the oldest resident of the area? I.E. been there the longest? Then she should be grandfathered in to certain conveniences as long as they do not endanger others or bring down the home values causing financial damage. Her dogs getting out a couple times a year does not do these things unless the dogs have been deemed a dangerous animal...
 
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:40 AM
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Another similar story, but even more senseless IMO... cancer patient arrested for paying dog license fee late :

http://reason.com/blog/2014/03/26/wo...yment-of-5-dog

Comments on the story mostly agree that this is ridiculous - one noted "wait til they start doing this to people who don't have health insurance" - indeed!
 
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:49 PM
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The law is the same for everyone, or so it should be. Perhaps that lady is too old to take care of dogs and by the way, just a couple of weeks ago a 3yo kid was killed by the dog of his grandparents while trying to feed him a donut.. and yeah, the dog was family friendly. They said it has never bitten anyone before.
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